Teams & Riders Julian Alaphilippe Discussion Thread

[Netserk]

And importantly, it overlaps more with Amstel than Flèche and Liège, so the hilly specialist who mostly perform in the latter two (and are also most often real climbers), like Martin, Valverde, Purito, Henao, and also Alaphilippe, can not be expected to do well in De Ronde. The positional battle before the bergs are not for flyweights.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

And importantly, it overlaps more with Amstel than Flèche and Liège, so the hilly specialist who mostly perform in the latter two (and are also most often real climbers), like Martin, Valverde, Purito, Henao, and also Alaphilippe, can not be expected to do well in De Ronde. The positional battle before the bergs are not for flyweights.

Definitely. I think it can also be noted that the Ardennes riders who's best Ardennes classic is the Amstel are typically the guys who lack the winning edge at the pointy end in Fleche and Liege cause it's too much climbing after all.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

 

[Leinster]

Re:

And importantly, it overlaps more with Amstel than Flèche and Liège, so the hilly specialist who mostly perform in the latter two (and are also most often real climbers), like Martin, Valverde, Purito, Henao, and also Alaphilippe, can not be expected to do well in De Ronde. The positional battle before the bergs are not for flyweights.

Kwiatkowski has performed well across the whole spectrum, so I’m inclined to say it can be done, although it does take a certain kind of rider.

I think if protected by his QuickStep squad, Alaphilippe would be well able to survive the position battle. But then again, the QS squad would be one of the reasons he’ll never win it; there are always multiple possible winners of RVV in the QuickStep squad, so it makes far more sense to keep him fresh for the Ardennes.

Also, the positional battle matters a lot less if you do a Gilbert or, even better, Durand and ride most of the race solo.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

You do realise they actually mean the same thing by extension right?

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

Not sure that Sagan, GVA or a heavyweight could compete with Bala, Alaphilippe or Poels in such climbs. But a good climber that works on his cobbles101 and raw power could do the job on the Ronde. Not speaking about Paris-Roubaix surely.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

Alexander Kristoff appreciates your vote of confidence in his climbing abilities, but respectfully declines to demonstrate.

I think there’s a lot less evidence for your suggestion than vice versa. There have been multiple multi-Flanders winners who have never even attempted Liege.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

You do realise they actually mean the same thing by extension right?

⇒ ≠ ⇔

 

[Velolover2]

I think there is a spectrum.

Only Fleche/Liege: Henao, Purito, Martin, Poels
Fleche/Liege/Amstel/Strade, perhaps smaller cobbled races like E3 and even Flanders: Alaphillipe, Albasini, Valverde,
Pure all-rounder, Flanders AND Liege (sometimes even competitive in polar opposite races like Roubaix and Fleche): Kwaitkowski, Moscon and Gilbert
Roubaix/Flanders + Amstel, Strade and other hilly races: GVA, Sagan, Vanmacke, Trentin, Stybar
Only Roubaix/Flanders: Boonen, Terpstra, Stannard, Kristoff
Only Roubaix: Very heavy lead-out men

 

[Netserk]

I can't see why Valverde and Purito are in different categories, but agreed, it's a distribution with two peaks.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I can't see why Valverde and Purito are in different categories, but agreed, it's a distribution with two peaks.

Purito is more pure in terms of being an explosive climber, where as Valverde has some more versatility to him, just look at Strade Bianche or his timetrials, especially shorter ones and prologues. He is very good technically as well. Simply just quite a bit better rouleur and allrounder than Purito ever could imagine to be. Had he been that, he would have won in Firenze.

I don't think Valverde is powerful enough for Flanders tho. However, I have no doubt in my mind that if he focused heavily on it and gained a few extra kilos and such he would be up there fighting for the win on the right day at some point of his career (assuming he took that path).

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I think there is a spectrum.

Only Fleche/Liege: Henao, Purito, Martin, Poels
Fleche/Liege/Amstel/Strade, perhaps smaller cobbled races like E3 and even Flanders: Alaphillipe, Albasini, Valverde,
Pure all-rounder, Flanders AND Liege (sometimes even competitive in polar opposite races like Roubaix and Fleche): Kwaitkowski, Moscon and Gilbert
Roubaix/Flanders + Amstel, Strade and other hilly races: GVA, Sagan, Vanmacke, Trentin, Stybar
Only Roubaix/Flanders: Boonen, Terpstra, Stannard, Kristoff
Only Roubaix: Very heavy lead-out men

You need to allow for MSR in there as well, especially given JA’s 3rd place in 2017. It would give an interesting overlap with the big sprinters, who can ride Roubaix and Flanders but not Liege or Strade.

GVA has a top 10 and 11th at Liege, 4 top-20 finishes at Lombardia, and an Olympic RR title on a veery hilly course. He’s one of the only genuine all-road classics riders in the current peloton. Or he would be, if he chose to target them all.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

You do realise they actually mean the same thing by extension right?

⇒ ≠ ⇔

Red Rick brainfarts, and le wild Netserk appears

I read can't.

I mean

I can't read

ffs took me 3 attempts to quote this message instead of editing it.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I can't see why Valverde and Purito are in different categories, but agreed, it's a distribution with two peaks.

Purito never contended at Strade, and never had the sprint to be a factor at Amstel. Valverde has been to the fore in both.

 

[Netserk]

Purito was 2nd in Amstel, and I think he would have ridden Strade if he was younger, but I'll admit that Valverde is more of an all-rounder than Purito, I just don't think it is enough for them to be in different categories.

 

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

I can't see why Valverde and Purito are in different categories, but agreed, it's a distribution with two peaks.

Purito never contended at Strade, and never had the sprint to be a factor at Amstel. Valverde has been to the fore in both.

This.

Valverde is obviously more versatile but why wouldn't 2012-esque Purito not be able to competitive in a race like Strade Biache?

You have top 10's from Pinot, Uran, Evans, Barguil, Rogers, Hesjedal and his lead-out man Caruso. Peak Purito could very well top 5 that race.

It's the only race for everyone except the pure sprinters.

 

[can3478]

A recent interview with Alaphilippe at team training camp in Calpe,
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/alaphilippe-i-want-to-turn-the-podiums-into-victories-right-away/

Early season race schedule:
Oro y Paz
Abu Dhabi Tour
Paris-Nice
Milan-San Remo
Vuelta al País Vasco
Ardennes Classics

In light of the recent accident, QS team 1st training ride in Colombia with a motorbike and car escort.

 

[can3478]

Didn’t think Alaphilippe has the form, but he won a stage, had KOM jersey for 2 days and finished 7th among many strong Colombians riders, good start to the season.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

Alexander Kristoff appreciates your vote of confidence in his climbing abilities, but respectfully declines to demonstrate.

I think there’s a lot less evidence for your suggestion than vice versa. There have been multiple multi-Flanders winners who have never even attempted Liege.

You just reminded me of Boonen's yearly assertions that he could totally definitely win Liége and he'd definitely ride it for the win one day just not right now.

Come to think of it, Cancellara spent his career saying the same
None of them ever showed up at the startline. Not that that should be surprising.

I can't help but find that bruised ego posturing quite funny. Still waiting for Valverde to show up for Flanders.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

If you can win in the Ardennes, you can win Flanders on the right day in my opinion. It is not like Roubaix where you need a completely different skillset. It is basically a hilly race. Only difference is a few of those hills have cobbles. And you can prepare yourself for these occasions.

what??? if you can win flanders, you can win in the ardennes, not the opposite

Alexander Kristoff appreciates your vote of confidence in his climbing abilities, but respectfully declines to demonstrate.

I think there’s a lot less evidence for your suggestion than vice versa. There have been multiple multi-Flanders winners who have never even attempted Liege.

You just reminded me of Boonen's yearly assertions that he could totally definitely win Liége and he'd definitely ride it for the win one day just not right now.

Come to think of it, Cancellara spent his career saying the same
None of them ever showed up at the startline. Not that that should be surprising.

I can't help but find that bruised ego posturing quite funny. Still waiting for Valverde to show up for Flanders.

Canceallara did say near the end of his career that he'd have had to have lost too much weight to attempt Liege. So at least did give a reason as to why he never tried it.

I think a lot of us are still waiting for Valverde to show up at Flanders esp since he keeps saying he's going to race it. Heck he even said either at Mallorca or Valencia when asked that Flanders is tentatively on his calendar but wasn't sure rather or not he was going to race it. Something about needing to get further into the season first.

 

[Escarabajo]

He didn't have to lose weight if he climbed the way he did at the Tour 2008 at Le Tourmalet!

 

[can3478]

Alaphilippe has been working hard leading QS sprint train(Alaphilippe, Hodeg, Morkov, Sabatini & Viviani) in the last KMs of the race. He went a bit too fast under the flamme rouge and broke up the sprint train. Fortunately Sabatini is so good at bringing Viviani to the front for the sprint.
https://youtu.be/k5M64dIP7zI?t=71

 

[can3478]

Exciting stage, Alaphilippe misses the podium by 2 seconds.
https://youtu.be/hYSWkbXfitI?t=28

 

[can3478]

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

It’s actually interesting that there was never a hint of discord or dislike or squabbling between those two when they were teammates, even though they were very obviously direct rivals. I suppose it’s easier for the second and third best puncheurs in the world to get along if they have to do so to improve their chance against the number one.