Julian Alaphilippe

[Koronin]

I want to know what program he's on because today is NOT in his abilities. He's shown time and again what he did today is not possible without major doping help of one kind or another.

 

[luckyboy]

Only difference was that Rasmussen was always a formidable climber and nobody doubted whether he could hang in the mountains. His TT skills is what people doubted, considering it cost him a podium place a couple of years previously in one of the most spectacular single day blowups ever.

Going in to the Tour 2017, he had actually only won six road races, most of them wins in stage races. I'm not sure his TT's were so bad, but the one where he lost the podium place was marred with errors.

Some Rasmussen Grand Tours with and without TTs. I'm not saying he would get these exact results, but for sure he was a much better GT rider than Alaphilippe - he just had one giant flaw (before 2007 lol).

2003 Vuelta, TTT and 3 ITTs
With: 7th, 5:56 down
Without: 1st by 19 seconds

2004 Tour, Prologue, TTT, 2 ITTTs
With: 14th, 27:16 down
Without: 5th, 13:19 down

2005 Tour, TTT, 2 ITTs
With: 7th, 11:33 down
Without: 1st by 2:14

 

[luckyboy]

Re:

I want to know what program he's on because today is NOT in his abilities. He's shown time and again what he did today is not possible without major doping help of one kind or another.

It is extremely galling seeing people point to the Tour of California with the amazing competition and brutal course, that easy edition of the Dauphine in 2016, and even the KOM jersey, as proof that this is a natural progression.

And the (much shorter) TT in Paris-Nice against Izagirre, Gallopin and old Contador is just the same as this TT two weeks into the Tour of course!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Let's wait and see till the Alps. I don't think all this speculation is fair to Alaphilippe quite yet, as we all know that he can push some huge watts and seeing that this is the first big MTF. What would be worrying is a scenario where he does not blow up in the Alps after all the substantial efforts he's launched in the earlier part of the race. Not paying the price at that point would seem borderline impossible for any inexperienced GC rider.

 

[Ripper]

Re:

I am done with this years tour. Biggest joke since a long time ago. As nuclear as it gets.

Really? Since how long ago then?

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re:

Only difference was that Rasmussen was always a formidable climber and nobody doubted whether he could hang in the mountains. His TT skills is what people doubted, considering it cost him a podium place a couple of years previously in one of the most spectacular single day blowups ever.

Going in to the Tour 2017, he had actually only won six road races, most of them wins in stage races. I'm not sure his TT's were so bad, but the one where he lost the podium place was marred with errors.

Some Rasmussen Grand Tours with and without TTs. I'm not saying he would get these exact results, but for sure he was a much better GT rider than Alaphilippe - he just had one giant flaw (before 2007 lol).

2003 Vuelta, TTT and 3 ITTs
With: 7th, 5:56 down
Without: 1st by 19 seconds

2004 Tour, Prologue, TTT, 2 ITTTs
With: 14th, 27:16 down
Without: 5th, 13:19 down

2005 Tour, TTT, 2 ITTs
With: 7th, 11:33 down
Without: 1st by 2:14

Thanks! Yeah, not impressive TT'ing. :lol:

 

[Ripper]

Re:

Only difference was that Rasmussen was always a formidable climber and nobody doubted whether he could hang in the mountains. His TT skills is what people doubted, considering it cost him a podium place a couple of years previously in one of the most spectacular single day blowups ever.

Well, that's not entirely clear. Because we also know Rasmussen was doped to the eyeballs before even doing major road races. He was super doped during his MTB days too, so we really have no idea where he would have been at.

 

[rick james]

How Alien is Julian Alaphilippe?
You may select 1 option
Contador/Nibali (almost plausible)


a bit unfair on Nibali

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

I am done with this years tour. Biggest joke since a long time ago. As nuclear as it gets.

Really? Since how long ago then?

Max. 1 year

 

[lartiste]

Re: Re:

I am done with this years tour. Biggest joke since a long time ago. As nuclear as it gets.

Really? Since how long ago then?

Max. 1 year

+ 1 :lol:

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Only difference was that Rasmussen was always a formidable climber and nobody doubted whether he could hang in the mountains. His TT skills is what people doubted, considering it cost him a podium place a couple of years previously in one of the most spectacular single day blowups ever.

Going in to the Tour 2017, he had actually only won six road races, most of them wins in stage races. I'm not sure his TT's were so bad, but the one where he lost the podium place was marred with errors.

Some Rasmussen Grand Tours with and without TTs. I'm not saying he would get these exact results, but for sure he was a much better GT rider than Alaphilippe - he just had one giant flaw (before 2007 lol).

2003 Vuelta, TTT and 3 ITTs
With: 7th, 5:56 down
Without: 1st by 19 seconds

2004 Tour, Prologue, TTT, 2 ITTTs
With: 14th, 27:16 down
Without: 5th, 13:19 down

2005 Tour, TTT, 2 ITTs
With: 7th, 11:33 down
Without: 1st by 2:14

Maybe you should remove ITT results from others as well? A rider with best road stage finishes of 7th and 9th does not finish 5th without TTs

 

[Cookster15]

Hate Ineous all you like but this isn't how to counter them. Pinot would have been more plausible. This is simply embarrassing for the sport. Glowing in the dark for sure. This guy couldn't even hold Bardet or Pinot's wheel in September, let alone Valverde. Now look.

So lets quit all the (bad) attempts to be funny and ask the question again - what is he on??

 

[lartiste]

Re:

Hate Ineous all you like but this isn't how to counter them. Pinot would have been more plausible. This is simply embarrassing for the sport. Glowing in the dark for sure. This guy couldn't even hold Bardet or Pinot's wheel in September, let alone Valverde. Now look.

So lets quit all the (bad) attempts to be funny and ask the question again - what is he on??

Aicar in bidons? + yellow jersey hype? + TUE?

 

[AustCyclingFan]

A great effort today by JA, but he's expended far more energy in the stages to date than his rivals for the maillot jaune, and the head says he has to pay for it in the end. But of course the heart says:

"Allez, mon brave!"

If he does manage to hang on to Paris, it'll be one of the very greatest Tour wins of the past 45 years - since 1974, the year of the last of Eddy Merckx' wins - in that he would be a puncheur taking the prize, and doing so with tremendous style and sense of fun. Here's hoping...

Haha, who am I kidding! What an effing joke.

Um just glad to see A Yates and RPorte blown out the back. Suggests to me they are only on light programs where any

 

[JosephK]

Ahhh, Julian. In my long jaded state, I can sort of see both sides to the "alienation" of today's Tourmalet performance by JA. Agreed, what we saw today was beyond anything he's shown before in terms of sustaining elite effort on long, high, hard mountains (that almost sounds pornographic). In terms of "transformation," however, I don't see this at the very top of the ridiculousness list. First, he has impressive palmares in road racing coming into the Tour -- numerous wins in prestigious races, albeit not at the GC level in grand tours. He's shown previous ability at climbing (selectively). He has elite talent. To me, this does not approach the late 2011 transformation of Chris Froome. It reminds me of how Simon Yates looked in the first two weeks of the 2018 Giro. Now that was pretty alien stuff, but it didn't last for 3 weeks. On the other hand, one could argue that Simon had more proven ability at the GC level in grand tours than Julian, and that's a valid point. -- I still don't see it approaching the "out of nowhere" transformation of Chris Froome.

I'm not suggesting he's clean, mind you. Just a subjective note on the level of ridiculousness of JA's TDF performance so far. Agreed, it's pretty ridiculous, but I don't see it at the historical pinnacle of absurd performances.

 

[AustCyclingFan]

From the Pau ITT - there are speeds in km/hour (vertical axis) for 165 finishers

• The right side of the graph below 41 km/hr tapers off - mostly people who are soft-pedaling and not trying
  In the middle all the way up to the left edge is a mostly-smooth curve resembling some sort of power-function
  Then two guys, Geraint Thomas and Julian Alaphilippe, who don't quite fit that curve. 'Gapping' everyone close

Anomaly? Fluke statistical outliers? Natural extension of a power curve, which only conspiracists would question ?

Let the 'Jalien Alienphilippe' speculation begin, throw some fuel on the fire, y'all

Solid work that.

Just a couple of standard deviations beyond the alreasy-above average standard deviants

Nothing to see here. Move along

 

[AustCyclingFan]

Re:

The fact he put in such individual efforts in the first week (e.g. sprint leadout) already had my suspicions raised and puts the past 48hrs into the Froome/Cobo levels of the 2011 Vuelta (where Froome expended so much energy as a domestique, you just can't have excess energy for day after day). I'm surprised it took until the ITT for this thread to be created.

I am convinced he was sandbagging in the last km today (and deliberately feigning weakness by hanging back out of camera view for much of the climb), he'd shaken his legs ready for the sprint at 2k but didn't pull the pin and I'd love to know what was said on the radio. Yesterdays ITT had the explosiveness of a Rasmussen or Ricco and it took him at least 20 seconds after crossing the line, sliding and embracing to remember to sit down at the side. I think there is a good chance he'll withdraw at the next rest day once some tests have been processed. It's a tragedy for France given how the credible Pinot is in the form of his life and genuinely back in contention.

Even his teammate says his performance today was "hard to believe", and I'm only very slightly taking that out of context.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-2019-stage-14-finish-line-quotes/

I want him to be busted for honesty, and for Cyclings sake. I don't want him to be busted for France's, and cycling's sake.

Is this just too big for France now that they couldn't just him....if he were found to be dirty?

I'm really sad for cycling, and for tours. You're allowed to win, but not like this, and not by that much.

But then again Sky/ Ineos, so yeah, you can I guess.

I'll give it one more stage

 

[Ripper]

Re: Re:

I am done with this years tour. Biggest joke since a long time ago. As nuclear as it gets.

Really? Since how long ago then?

Max. 1 year

LOL! I almost agree, but more like about 8 months!

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I want to know what program he's on because today is NOT in his abilities. He's shown time and again what he did today is not possible without major doping help of one kind or another.

It is extremely galling seeing people point to the Tour of California with the amazing competition and brutal course, that easy edition of the Dauphine in 2016, and even the KOM jersey, as proof that this is a natural progression.

And the (much shorter) TT in Paris-Nice against Izagirre, Gallopin and old Contador is just the same as this TT two weeks into the Tour of course!

No kidding. The ToC (which I actually enjoy watching), but winning GC there doesn't exactly mean much as Sagan has won the GC title there.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I see that I have quite a lot of reading to get through. At least the forum hasn't crashed

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

The fact he put in such individual efforts in the first week (e.g. sprint leadout) already had my suspicions raised and puts the past 48hrs into the Froome/Cobo levels of the 2011 Vuelta (where Froome expended so much energy as a domestique, you just can't have excess energy for day after day). I'm surprised it took until the ITT for this thread to be created.

I am convinced he was sandbagging in the last km today (and deliberately feigning weakness by hanging back out of camera view for much of the climb), he'd shaken his legs ready for the sprint at 2k but didn't pull the pin and I'd love to know what was said on the radio. Yesterdays ITT had the explosiveness of a Rasmussen or Ricco and it took him at least 20 seconds after crossing the line, sliding and embracing to remember to sit down at the side. I think there is a good chance he'll withdraw at the next rest day once some tests have been processed. It's a tragedy for France given how the credible Pinot is in the form of his life and genuinely back in contention.

Even his teammate says his performance today was "hard to believe", and I'm only very slightly taking that out of context.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-2019-stage-14-finish-line-quotes/

Very entertaining post! I will think of you if some dramatic news occurs on Monday

 

[Akuryo]

So far, this is still reasonable, even though of course questionable at the same time. He is a generational talent regarding classics/one day racing. So then he attacks and gets the jersey on a stage made for a rider like him. So far so good. He then smashes everyone in a TT where a puncheur and great descender like him is also favored. Still plausible. He goes on to not only limit his losses but increases his lead on the freaking Tourmalet. So now I could maybe argue that you could go into the red for one day to keep the jersey. "Power of Yellow" and stuff like that. BUT ... everything he adds now is really suspicious. Maybe we will see a meltdown like Yates in last years Giro and Ineos takes the lead and everything goes 'back to normal'. Or maybe Alaphilippe will win this Tour and it would be even harder to belive than Horner, Cobo or Landis in their respective GT-wins.

 

[MikeS369]

Re: Re:

Hate Ineous all you like but this isn't how to counter them. Pinot would have been more plausible. This is simply embarrassing for the sport. Glowing in the dark for sure. This guy couldn't even hold Bardet or Pinot's wheel in September, let alone Valverde. Now look.

So lets quit all the (bad) attempts to be funny and ask the question again - what is he on??

Aicar in bidons? + yellow jersey hype? + TUE?

I don't believe AICAR works instantly. I'm leaning towards micro-dosing EPO and a rest day blood bag and.

 

[Ripper]

Re:

The fact he put in such individual efforts in the first week (e.g. sprint leadout) already had my suspicions raised and puts the past 48hrs into the Froome/Cobo levels of the 2011 Vuelta (where Froome expended so much energy as a domestique, you just can't have excess energy for day after day). I'm surprised it took until the ITT for this thread to be created.

I am convinced he was sandbagging in the last km today (and deliberately feigning weakness by hanging back out of camera view for much of the climb), he'd shaken his legs ready for the sprint at 2k but didn't pull the pin and I'd love to know what was said on the radio. Yesterdays ITT had the explosiveness of a Rasmussen or Ricco and it took him at least 20 seconds after crossing the line, sliding and embracing to remember to sit down at the side. I think there is a good chance he'll withdraw at the next rest day once some tests have been processed. It's a tragedy for France given how the credible Pinot is in the form of his life and genuinely back in contention.

Even his teammate says his performance today was "hard to believe", and I'm only very slightly taking that out of context.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-2019-stage-14-finish-line-quotes/

LMAO! Come on, Froome/Cobo levels? This is not even close. Is it alien? Could be, although I've reacted to a couple of these insane performances where things start to level off completely in week 3 (or the wheels come off completely, like Yates last year), so I will hold off till later this week before I fully think the alien has landed.

First off there's simply what Froome and Cobo did, which was insane all by itself. Then you add Froome's transformation, 'cause no one thought he'd be a world beater in any regard and then suddenly, boom! Cobo was, ironically enough, the one who seemed to have a better history of performance and results (and we see how that's turned out).

Anyhow, yes JA could be doped to the eyeballs and completely alien, but it's a bit of hyperbole to start saying this is anything like the Froomformation. I mean, FFS 'G' had never demonstrated anything close to the GT dominance he did last year! To be quite honest, I don't find JA's performance to be more surprising than Thomas from last year.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

So far, this is still reasonable, even though of course questionable at the same time. He is a generational talent regarding classics/one day racing. So then he attacks and gets the jersey on a stage made for a rider like him. So far so good. He then smashes everyone in a TT where a puncheur and great descender like him is also favored. Still plausible. He goes on to not only limit his losses but increases his lead on the freaking Tourmalet. So now I could maybe argue that you could go into the red for one day to keep the jersey. "Power of Yellow" and stuff like that. BUT ... everything he adds now is really suspicious. Maybe we will see a meltdown like Yates in last years Giro and Ineos takes the lead and everything goes 'back to normal'. Or maybe Alaphilippe will win this Tour and it would be even harder to belive than Horner, Cobo or Landis in their respective GT-wins.

I'm inclinded towards this view. As an athlete, with his physique and palmares, he should be able to do any of the things he did during this Tour in isolation. The Tourmalet climb was impressive, but I don't think it was raced super hard, given that for example Barguil was able to finish 8th. Alarms will be going off all around if he keeps this up, but I fully expect him to blow spectacularly on of the next stages.