Juniors and Doping...

[El Imbatido]

Love the screen name.

Are you speaking from experience Mr Ferrari or Mr Fuentes, whichever you are

 

[Team Ferrari/Fuentes]

Love the screen name.

Are you speaking from experience Mr Ferrari or Mr Fuentes, whichever you are

I was just paying tribute to the biggest Grand Tour winners of all time.

 

[Eva Maria]

Big boat and Vance both posted BS about some drug would be story.Should have been said long ago,Big Boat,blackcat,turd I could smoke you on a three speed in Levi's with a hangover.Any state,any day(4 weeks notice)20k tt your course and you find who can do a drug test on both of us. 3 labs A and B sample at all three.Find out how much it costs and hold the money in an account .I will race on a girl's bike with three to 8 speeds and start behind you at 30 seconds.I will wear long denim jeans and cycling shoes and a tshirt.You will race on any bike that meets road mass start event standards.I will start with a water bottle in hand,not to be replenished during the race.After the race the loser shall make a video apology to a list provided (no more than 10 names).The hangover shall be witnessed by others at the establishment of your choosing.I would think that no more than 3 beers and three shots should qualify as excess the night before the race.The prize money shall consist of air travel costs,bike transport,hotel(4 days),ground transport for rider and bike,bar and food bill during the stay of travel,and all return costs.West Coast price will be @5k East Coast 4k anywhere else get the price and my half will be banked 3-5 days latter after agreement.I am on lots of drugs like asprin and Chimay,and Coopers.1 sorry will be said(out loud) to all JR racers and their families that I can gather at the race course,I do not currently hold a US Cycling Lic. but I can get one in 4 or 5 biz days.I will race uninsured and unattached.I will race on paved or unpaved roads. Plain jerseys(tshirts ) will be worn by both of us.Most bike shops and racing clubs are fine to hold my money before and until the conclusion of our race.The club shall be in the race location city,agreed by both of us. You shall put a stickers on your helmet and bike that states"dopers suck" and another that states"Taylor was right" if I should be victorious.I can race you anywhere with enough lead time.(S.Australia,Bell's Beach area.J town) If you don't mind long travel I don't mind.AU for me Nov.14th.I will get you a free place to stay if so.If you want we can make it a triathalon drinking,racing,surfing.

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

 

[blackcat]

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

it is As'ad AbuKhalil.

obvious giveaway

 

[Mainerider]

I believe there were a few juniors who sued the USCF over being injected with drugs without their consent. One is a doctor now, but I can't remember the name(s).

I believe doping in Junior is relatively rare, even the countries that have huge doping problems like Spain and Italy discourage it....you don't want a kid to already be on dope when you sign him, then realize he won't improve much or at all.

I believe one of them was Eric Kaiter

 

[krebs303]

I would think that no more than 3 beers and three shots should qualify as excess the night before the race.

3 beers and 3 shots an excess? you need more training!

 

[Eva Maria]

I believe one of them was Eric Kaiter

Yes, and Greg Strock. Armstrong's "Coach" Chris Charmichael paid them a nice settlement to not take him to court. Extract of Cortisone.

 

[TRDean]

Yes, and Greg Strock. Armstrong's "Coach" Chris Charmichael paid them a nice settlement to not take him to court. Extract of Cortisone.

How did all that go down? Did these kids fail a test? To give someone drugs without their knowledge seems criminal to me...is it not? Does anyone have any background on this?

 

[Eva Maria]

How did all that go down? Did these kids fail a test? To give someone drugs without their knowledge seems criminal to me...is it not? Does anyone have any background on this?

http://velonews.com/article/79

 

[TRDean]

http://velonews.com/article/79

Thanks for the link. A very fascinating interview, and very depressing. How did things turn out for Mr. Strock?

 

[BroDeal]

Thanks for the link. A very fascinating interview, and very depressing. How did things turn out for Mr. Strock?

The interesting thing about that interview is that it does not mention that the other coach who was injecting riders with drugs was Chris Carmichael. In fact other stuff I have read implies that Carmichael was the man doing most of the injecting. Strock reached a settlement with Carmichael and that is why he refused to mention his name, which sort of puts what he said about wanting to be able to do a tell all interview in perspective. Money talks louder than ethics.

Second, by downplaying Carmichael's role, the interview does not make it clear that there was obviously a doping program that extended beyond just Strock and the other riders on the team who have said they were also doped. Riders like Armstrong who came out of the same program were likely doping while on the team. It also raises the issue of why a "clean" Armstrong would continue his realationship with a dirtbag like Carmichael, who should be in prison for doping children.

 

[Kennf1]

Thanks for the link. A very fascinating interview, and very depressing. How did things turn out for Mr. Strock?

Don't know how the lawsuit ended with Wenzel, but Strock is a practicing physician, and is actually back on the bike riding for fun. He placed 3rd at the 2009 Masters' National Time Trial in the 35-39 category.

 

[Oldman]

Yes, I am quoting myself....I just did a search of the two brothers I mentioned above, and I was correct. The eldest retired young for medical problems, and the youngest, who I raced against is now a current pro racer with a contract. The younger guy won some pretty hard and big races as a youngster against experienced pros, but hasn't had results in a long time.

About the same time but pre-Roy Knickman I had some juniors who quit because of what they were told to do. Guys complaining of being overtrained were encouraged to get their personal doctor to prescribe Prozac since overtraining was considered a "mental disability". No joke.
Others were advised of the preparation the US coaches anticipated from foreign World's teams and told "this is all we can give you, but there are sources...". Knickman put an end to it and eventually left the program, I'm told. There was a remaining Eastern Bloc influence on the program for a long while. You can draw your own conclusions about the same situation in Austrailia, I'm told. Sorry most of my recent posts have been on the Clinic forums but people are finally getting to the heart of the matter. I know so many young phenoms that quit because they saw no future in the sport.

 

[Ozzie2]

So there is no more injecting of 'vitamins' in the dorm rooms at the Aussie Institute of Sport then? Good to hear.

lets just say they got new cleaners in there. problem solved

 

[usedtobefast]

3 beers and 3 shots an excess? you need more training!

maybe they are really big beers and very large shots?

 

[Ozzie2]

it is As'ad AbuKhalil.

obvious giveaway

could be.

but i gotta say- that post of his was one of the best i have ever read. i cacked myself. what a cracker

man, this guy is disturbed- but then so am i, so i can't talk.

i think he missed saying that he wouldn't shave down for it. suggests he has laser removed permanently. in that case, i'd say european, and posts using an iPhone

lord knows doing this on a 1x3cm screen is danged near impossible

 

[BigBoat]

I met a girl that raced bikes and went to high school with taylor phinney, when i mentioned how great taylor phinney was, she laughed and said i am an idiot if i think he is clean. broke my heart

Yeah...Thats what I thought too. I wish I could believe some of them.

 

[biker77]

I think we should leave the juniors alone. The moment a pro contract is signed then different story.

Dominating performance should be more likely in the junior ranks as the talent in any given race, and each individuals form, will vary much more than at the top.

Thanks to the forum for an interesting thread.

 

[fatandfast]

Why bother,Greg Strock said zip about anybody except Rene.The rest of these wads want to go borderline pedi and go after every kid like MJ. The form never made Jr's off limits so don't expect the molesters to look for facts.There are great racers below 18,but if these a- holes have it won then Strock will get his wish of no kids in competitive sports.Racing is great, couch cu%^s are...well cu*&s.Palin did nothing right but if she can get cash from the big boat,she still did nothing right but those who sling sh$t on kids will at the very least have their bank account drained in the name of racing.Facts can help fiction will fu@# you.What is the big boat full of? Maybe turd knows.

 

[BroDeal]

Why bother,Greg Strock said zip about anybody except Rene.The rest of these wads want to go borderline pedi and go after every kid like MJ. The form never made Jr's off limits so don't expect the molesters to look for facts.There are great racers below 18,but if these a- holes have it won then Strock will get his wish of no kids in competitive sports.Racing is great, couch cu%^s are...well cu*&s.Palin did nothing right but if she can get cash from the big boat,she still did nothing right but those who sling sh$t on kids will at the very least have their bank account drained in the name of racing.Facts can help fiction will fu@# you.What is the big boat full of? Maybe turd knows.

You might want to lay off the meth from now on.. Things appear to have reached the stage where the mind starts to go.

 

[fatandfast]

Now they are going to test for crystal? I better call the boat and get a hold of the turdz so that they are not busted for the "new " style of slander that I was trying to post about. To call any Jr a doper directly or through some High School classmate is dumb.And by dumb I mean you are just a few @#$ns that can't race.B Boat ,I am a doctor shi# serves you and nobody else. If you couple of dbs want to test blood then do it on each other. There was no trial involving Charmichael and Strock,it just didn't happen. Taylor is not suspected of doping except by those he smoked and those who have smoked.Race and ride don't type and hide behind the flat screen of slow. Lots of people ride around,going fast is absolute you fa$,fak*,slow puke. May there be hot baby butter in your every water bottle from now on.Don't go after Jrs, was the point before so much science came between you and the facts.

 

[wpsracing78]

Now they are going to test for crystal? I better call the boat and get a hold of the turdz so that they are not busted for the "new " style of slander that I was trying to post about. To call any Jr a doper directly or through some High School classmate is dumb.And by dumb I mean you are just a few @#$ns that can't race.B Boat ,I am a doctor shi# serves you and nobody else. If you couple of dbs want to test blood then do it on each other. There was no trial involving Charmichael and Strock,it just didn't happen. Taylor is not suspected of doping except by those he smoked and those who have smoked.Race and ride don't type and hide behind the flat screen of slow. Lots of people ride around,going fast is absolute you fa$,fak*,slow puke. May there be hot baby butter in your every water bottle from now on.Don't go after Jrs, was the point before so much science came between you and the facts.

ha. haha.. hahaha... hahahaha.... hahahahaha.....
HAHAHAHAHA, sounds like a guy we know...

Back to the trashcan Oscar, and lay off the meth

If I ever find myself racing against you, I'll be sure to abandon.

B Boat ,I am a doctor shi# serves you and nobody else

No, actually it serves most of us. At least he can use paragraphs, :" - (and, grammer')

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Another reason not to normalise doping by "legalising".

Junior Australian athletes as young as 12 admit to doping

 

[RobbieCanuck]

This thread is for serious discussion on the prevalence of doping of any kind in the junior ranks...both in Europe, America, and elsewhere. Does anyone here have knowledge, or experience as a junior, or working with juniors about when these guys/gals start taking PEDs? I am hoping to hear that the trend is for junior riders to be using less, but I don't know. Any thoughts? Is this where all the problems are starting in the first place, hence a good place to start eliminating the problem?

I have no knowledge. But I have a huge concern that ex-dopers who have made a lot of money off doping and cheating (Hincapie) can run development teams. IMO young riders are impressed and influenced by ex dopers who have actually participated in races considered part of the holy grail of cycling. And when they see the financial benefits of doping they might be prone to figure it is okay.

I understand LA gave attended a USACDT clinic to give advice to the development team. This is insane. It is putting the fox among the chickens. USAC really needs to have its pee pee whacked and some serious reorganization of that institution is require asap.

Those are my thoughts FWTW.