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Just wait for the protests of Valverde's innocence...

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auscyclefan94 said:
may I ask something to you all. How many of you think all top riders are on drugs/doping?

I think that all the contenders for GT GC are doping. Occasionally I hold out hope that some riders who target one day races or single stages might be clean. Then I look at riders like DiLuca, Valverde, Rebellin, Vino, etc., who in recent years have been very successful at one day events, and I have serious doubts.

If I had even a smidgen of trust in the UCI I would be a little less suspicious, but I do not think the UCI cares at all whether riders dope. I do not think that the UCI's current efforts are done in good faith such that they can function to limit the effectiveness of doping. I suspect that select teams are still getting tip offs about OOC tests just like they were a few years ago.
 
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blackcat said:
On Wiggins, you have me wrong. I thought he was boosted before, and got one intra Tour bag. But no real recovery help. Just slip out of the team hotel on the rest day, no one misses you.

I am putting my money where my mouth is, and laying Wiggins for the podium this year, I think he will come thru for me.

I need to correct my comment. Wigans was in fourth not third. You don't need to explain to me your thinkings. I've heard you repeat the same story again and again. You hold your thoughts and remain consistent. Good thing. I know you have been backing him. No problem there. It is so hard to correlate between the riders performances amongst one another. A lot are similar, but the gap to GC from the groupetto is big enough to realise Wigans did a little more than take Lim's Rice Cakes to make the top 10. Old story that one. The problem I see is describing one guy worse than the next or having an advantage. I don't think they do except in team support.

Contador obviously wasn't handing Lance or Johan his blood bags, but he still would have had similar medical support. Cadel as well and all the top riders. Now look at Garmin specifically. I think they did the same as the other boys did (Wigans and CVV) but Garmin didn't handle their program. I think management said do it on your own. Hence the Wigan quotes from Wigans. Sky will hold his hand and I am betting Brailsford will hook up the blood bag himself if needed.

auscyclefan94 said:
Don't you go accusing my Cadel of Drugs!:D

may I ask something to you all. How many of you think all top riders are on drugs/doping?

Sorry, I forgot you were the wife. I won't accuse "Your" Cadel again...'snicker quietly to myself.":p

Everyone up in the top GC chain. I think HGH is used by most and smaller stuff like insulin and IGF-1, AICAR, etc. Blood bags...top GC boys and the domestiques. All of HTC get it. No way they can ride off on the Champs Elysees and get a 1-2 so easily with the two Marks after 3 weeks.

Who benefits most? Some of the lesser talented guys. If the entire GC were clean, then I think the results would be similar amongst the top 5 riders. However I think the time gaps would be bigger. Think back to Fignon winning by ten minutes over Hinault and LeMond. Or 3rd place being 20 minutes behind Hinault in the early 80s. I honestly think the playing field would level out for stage wins and KOM, but GC gaps would widen. Basically the top 10 would look different. Le Mevel and Casar would top 10 in a clean peloton. Some guys like the ones BlackCat mentioned would be annihilated clean. Maybe Tommy D would podium in a GC. Maybe Rogers could as well...maybe not.:rolleyes:

So some guys I think get more of a boost from PEDs, but all the naturally talented guys are in theory where they should be. Why? They've been consistent all year for years. Take LA for example. He peaks once a year and is average for the rest. Contador hasn't taken that route and neither has Valverde or Evans. Why? Those boys are naturally GC riders. Lance is a classics guy turned wonder kind via Dr. Ferrari. Also the riders style on a bike is all them. The reason Ricco looks good attacking is because it is his mentality. Maybe the fury and frequency are increased along with the longevity (ie; effects) but that is it.
 
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In relation to HTC taking 1 & 2 on the Champs Elysees by a good margin. This was down to the fact that the 2 Garmin riders on the front at the time got their line wrong coming into the final stretch. They even took out Hushovd also as well as others. Cavendish & his Colombia mate were given a free run at it from there. Anyone remember that or will we just blame it on doping? Seriously just this particular instance.
 
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Galic Ho said:
Ok, bad use of quotes by you, but that isn't important. But that was from a post I made. Elementary logic. Explain, because you flung the term out there but gave no explanation. Not that it bothers me I'd just like to figure out why you used it. Yes it is basic, but appropriate for the point I was suggesting. All those riders, Aussies, have been big names in cycling from my home nation, especially at the Tour.

To answer your question...It says nothing good. Evans is one of those riders. Hence I used him as an example. Easy pickings, plus because I am an Aussie I know people turn a blind eye to their national sporting heroes. Who is the biggest rider from Canada? Ryder Heyjedal? You can see why I didn't choose him or worse, a Spaniard or American. Evans was the perfect fit because most people here "KNOW" that certain Yanks and Spanish riders are just like Valverde. They are cut from the same cloth.

Sorry on the quote being messed up, my bad.

I liked the elementary logic thought as the reasoning was logical based on simple relativity and sequence. 1+1 and 2+2. If 'he' is dirty so is 'he'. Thats all.

I must say none of it was intended to highlight Cadel. I like Cadel. The focus of my comments were on the apex feeder of the peleton, the leader of doping, litigation and deception ... Mr. Armstrong. If the head of the reptile is caught, it might just take down the how snake. Lets stop talking about Cadel, lets talk about Valverde.

PS: Ryder is a good *** and an excellent racer. His ability to win one day races, be in the top 10 in ITTs, win several World championship MTB races, but never come close to winning a GT suggests that he's clean.

NW
 
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Kerbdog said:
In relation to HTC taking 1 & 2 on the Champs Elysees by a good margin. This was down to the fact that the 2 Garmin riders on the front at the time got their line wrong coming into the final stretch. They even took out Hushovd also as well as others. Cavendish & his Colombia mate were given a free run at it from there. Anyone remember that or will we just blame it on doping? Seriously just this particular instance.

No, you have that. Julian Dean completely messed up the line at third wheel and braked, meaning Farrar at 4 and Thor at 5 had to brake as well, and that was where the gap came. I would link a video but I am at home and can't get on YouTube
 
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Big GMaC said:
No, you have that. Julian Dean completely messed up the line at third wheel and braked, meaning Farrar at 4 and Thor at 5 had to brake as well, and that was where the gap came. I would link a video but I am at home and can't get on YouTube

yeah, but there was no way anyone was gonna come around Cav, unless Cav was in the wind for 300metres and Farrar came out of his slipstream.

Hincapie won that stage. One of the best leadouts ever, besides the ones Steegmans gave Mcewen, which was more a result of a slowish leadout that Gert jumped at full sprint speed. But Hincapie deserved more than a Rolex for that win.

Think Cav is gonna feel some heat over the loss of Hincapie. Phenomenal rider and leadout man without peer, in the second last spot.
 
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blackcat said:
yeah, but there was no way anyone was gonna come around Cav, unless Cav was in the wind for 300metres and Farrar came out of his slipstream.

Hincapie won that stage. One of the best leadouts ever, besides the ones Steegmans gave Mcewen, which was more a result of a slowish leadout that Gert jumped at full sprint speed. But Hincapie deserved more than a Rolex for that win.

Think Cav is gonna feel some heat over the loss of Hincapie. Phenomenal rider and leadout man without peer, in the second last spot.

I know man, I was just backing up kerbdog's view that the HTC 1-2 was because of Garmin messing up the corner and not just the metric ****-ton of drug they do.
 
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Big GMaC said:
I know man, I was just backing up kerbdog's view that the HTC 1-2 was because of Garmin messing up the corner and not just the metric ****-ton of drug they do.

yeah. Renshaw would not have come in the top 5 if Dean had not screwed the leadout. See how the peel works on all sprints on the Champs Elysees. If you are first at 200m to go, generally the peel will have you outside the top 10.
 
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Kerbdog said:
In relation to HTC taking 1 & 2 on the Champs Elysees by a good margin. This was down to the fact that the 2 Garmin riders on the front at the time got their line wrong coming into the final stretch. They even took out Hushovd also as well as others. Cavendish & his Colombia mate were given a free run at it from there. Anyone remember that or will we just blame it on doping? Seriously just this particular instance.

Yep, I forgot about that. The Garmin leadout stuffed up. But Garmin had the lead before the last turn. Hincapie put Renshaw and Cav in place to do their stuff. Perhaps I should have used stage 18 as a better example? Cav should not have won that, let alone made the finish with the lead bunch.