JV reaches out to anonymous critic.

[buckwheat]

The info you get is not out of bounds, no matter what info it is (unless it is knowingly falsified by you, not saying you would do this, but that is the only boundary I could come up with)

HOWEVER the contact info, so the information as to how you can contact them, is out of bounds to publicly disclose, due to privacy reasons, unless the information is readily available to the general public through other, legitimate, means, this information as to how to contact these persons are not to be made public

My bigger point is that, anyone in the public eye vouching for a person's (in the public eye)integrity is a news story.

Let me interrupt myself here,

Are forumites beginning to see the ridiculousness of this whole thing?

IMHO JV is not doing as much as he can regarding doping. Other's disagree. Then the subject of this, JV, contacts me, as if my opinion matters all that much.

MY opinion matters only in that it may be a representation of what other people think.

In no way am I part of this, other than my ramblings have touched a heretofore untouched nerve..

Now, if someone wants to hire me to transmit this info, send me an offer.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I met this REALLY hot girl at the pub last night.

I initially thought she must be a 'pro' since there aren't too many hotties that live in my neighbourhood, but she assured me that she was actually a virgin. Well, let me tell you... That made me even hotter for her. She was so sweet, and SO good-looking!

We had a great time, dancing and swapping stories... You know the routine...

As the pub was closing, I asked her for her phone number. I thought that since we had such a great night, we might want to get to know each other better.

She was a little reticent to give out her number, but she enthusiastically took mine, with a promise to call for a date next weekend.



I never heard from her...

Sound familiar?

 

[buckwheat]

I met this REALLY hot girl at the pub last night.

I initially thought she must be a 'pro' since there aren't too many hotties that live in my neighbourhood, but she assured me that she was actually a virgin. Well, let me tell you... That made me even hotter for her. She was so sweet, and SO good-looking!

We had a great time, dancing and swapping stories... You know the routine...

As the pub was closing, I asked her for her phone number. I thought that since we had such a great night, we might want to get to know each other better.

She was a little reticent to give out her number, but she enthusiastically took mine, with a promise to call for a date next weekend.



I never heard from her...

Sound familiar?

No, I always make the fantasy a reality....

I think your story breaks down because if you then related your story to your facebook friends, and then she contacted you to manage your story, there would be a parallel.

Ok, bottom line. I'm going to leave this at your oft "quoted" post which I think sums up the situation best.....

If JV doesn't like that, he can address it here. If he's comfortable with it, fine also.

 

[Barrus]

Still you say you will forward the information, which would include contact information. I will say again, do not make this contact info public, unless you have the explicit consent of that person, or you will be banned

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

No, I always make the fantasy a reality....

I think your story breaks down because if you then related your story to your facebook friends, and then she contacted you to manage your story, there would be a parallel.

Right... forgot about that...

I truly do need an army of sycophants to bolster my self-image.

I'm doing the right thing, right? Tell me I am! I'm serious, you still love me, don't you? I AM special...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I want the information from JV. He offered it to me if I asked. I asked. He hasn't given it to me.

When/If he does, I'll forward it.

My apologies were about my behavior. A lot of my behavior was in response to a decent amount of abuse I took on these forums.

No matter, JV is either going to be transparent about these issues, or not.

I don't understand you getting on me btw.....

One thing which influenced my apology was my perception that I may have been perceived as bullying.

Another thing was an unflattering comparison between JV and Rosa Park's ....I won't repeat it.

In conclusion, this has very little to do with me and everything to do with JV's actions whatever they are.

One of JV's messages.



The other PM concerns the Andreu's. No earth shattering info, but Betsy's been on here and if she wants to comment, that's her prerogative.

As far as what I've done. I'll weigh Mike Anderson's opinion more heavily than anyone else's seeing that he's the one most closely associated with these issues.

He has not been back on the CN site since you asked so how is he supposed to respond?

I also do not think it is appropriate to publically disclose what was said in a PM. Again JV asked YOU to check them out - and you are now stalling on something that has no relevance to what you seek.

@Barrus - I have much of the contact information but I only offered it to BW through PM and if he wanted I would have asked those for their opinions on JV and forwarded it to BW only with the consent of those I contacted, which is why I would prefer if BW does it.

Also - the request is really only to see what their personal opinion is of JV, so it is not a case of them being asked to write a piece or any payment sought or offered.

 

[Barrus]

He has not been back on the CN site since you asked so how is he supposed to respond?

I also do not think it is appropriate to publically disclose what was said in a PM. Again JV asked YOU to check them out - and you are now stalling on something that has no relevance to what you seek.

@Barrus - I have much of the contact information but I only offered it to BW through PM and if he wanted I would have asked those for their opinions on JV and forwarded it to BW only with the consent of those I contacted, which is why I would prefer if BW does it.

Also - the request is really only to see what their personal opinion is of JV, so it is not a case of them being asked to write a piece or any payment sought or offered.

The first thing was kinda what I was pointing at.

The point directed at me. I did not follow the exact conversation, but it appeared as though someone was going to forward what JV would sent, which would include manner to contact certain people. It was this and the possibility that the privacy of certain people would be infringed upon, that I was protesting against. In general on this forum there is the rule not to provide contact information, unless you have the express consent of those involved. I just wanted to make this clear to everyon here

 

[buckwheat]

He has not been back on the CN site since you asked so how is he supposed to respond?

I also do not think it is appropriate to publically disclose what was said in a PM. Again JV asked YOU to check them out - and you are now stalling on something that has no relevance to what you seek.

@Barrus - I have much of the contact information but I only offered it to BW through PM and if he wanted I would have asked those for their opinions on JV and forwarded it to BW only with the consent of those I contacted, which is why I would prefer if BW does it.

Also - the request is really only to see what their personal opinion is of JV, so it is not a case of them being asked to write a piece or any payment sought or offered.

Again, I'm not the issue, and if I was, which I was, I'm resigning that post effective immediately.

You know, I paraphrased JV's post to me honestly, and then I get criticized for what I did or did not say. Whatever. I didn't disclose any state secrets so....

I think you're being a little naive as to the roles played by Walsh or Kimmage.

I'll be honest with you. I think you're starting to get out of line here. Maybe this thread should be closed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

JMB - (as I see you are on here) I have agreed with much of what you have wrote on the JV issue - but did notice that something was not quite right in your view, which I believe is addressed below.

I agree that Buckwheat can be beligerent. That's one of his saving graces. He knows what he wants, isn't picking stupid fights, and is trying to hold others to what they say.

His points may be made through circumlocution, varied metaphors, and convoluted reasoning, but his points still stand. That's probably why JV popped his head into the ring to start with.

If JV found Buckwheat's argument worth debating, that should be enough of a gesture for all of us.

If he really is 'pussing out' with the contact information, that should be something that's recognized as well.

I know that I personally spent a tonne of cerebral energy figuring out where I stand on the issue, and have made my point as clearly as I could.

As to boycotting certain brands, I'm not sold on that. The corporate world is so convoluted and in-bed at such a fundamental level, that I really don't believe not buying something from someone would really make a difference.

That being said, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to fire off a letter to corporate HQ explaining why you won't support their product.

It's not like the American model where everyone is scrambling for cash. There are a lot of global corps that would love to take advantage of the marketing potential cycling has to offer. That's why it's worth so much today, and will maintain its value regardless of what happens with the current sh*t-show/debacle...

The point here is that JV was on the original thread first - and Buckwheat only joined in after JV had posted.

The first post in the 'JV Spineless' thread was because according to the OP, JV had not publically said "the Bio-passport is working" - even though in post no. 21 I pointed out that JV had said exactly that months ago.

JV comes on in post 23 and engages with some of us on seperate issuses and clarifies some remarks.

Buckwheat did not post anything until post 32 which immediatley questioned JV's credibility intil he "named names".

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

He has not been back on the CN site since you asked so how is he supposed to respond?
.

I forgot that CN posters are the only individuals on the planet with internet connections.

Maybe if JV can roll his stone wagon out of his cave in Girona his WiFi signal will improve.

It's not like anyone is counting on actual postal mail. Sh*t! It's the 21st century...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I forgot that CN posters are the only individuals on the planet with internet connections.

Maybe if JV can roll his stone wagon out of his cave in Girona his WiFi signal will improve.

It's not like anyone is counting on actual postal mail. Sh*t! It's the 21st century...

You have missed a very obvious point.

Here is JV's Public profile page - which records the last time they logged in - which was Wednesday 10th of November.

If JV has not logged in he is unable to retrieve his PM's.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

You have missed a very obvious point.

Here is JV's Public profile page - which records the last time they logged in - which was Wednesday 10th of November.

If JV has not logged in he is unable to retrieve his PM's.

So, as an internationally recognized DS who is running a ProTour team with a budget in the millions of euros, he HASN"T been on a computer for a week?

Of course he has. He's just not logging onto this site since it would result in more of a headache for him than it's worth.

That was my point re postal mail. That lag doesn't exist anymore, and nor does the excuse.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Again, I'm not the issue, and if I was, which I was, I'm resigning that post effective immediately.

You know, I paraphrased JV's post to me honestly, and then I get criticized for what I did or did not say. Whatever. I didn't disclose any state secrets so....

I think you're being a little naive as to the roles played by Walsh or Kimmage.

I'll be honest with you. I think you're starting to get out of line here. Maybe this thread should be closed.

Great - you say you are not the issue and then try and say that I am?
Point out where I have "started getting out of line here".

The only thing I am doing is showing that you have not done as requested and have gone back to your original position without checking the facts as you should have - you are trying to have it both ways.

No idea what you mean by Kimmage or Walsh - if you contacted them about JV you would be asking their opinions on the guy - not asking them to a write a piece on him. They are not robots - and I would guess you would receive two different opinions.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, as an internationally recognized DS who is running a ProTour team with a budget in the millions of euros, he HASN"T been on a computer for a week?

Of course he has. He's just not logging onto this site since it would result in more of a headache for him than it's worth.

That was my point re postal mail. That lag doesn't exist anymore, and nor does the excuse.

I am merely pointing out the obvious - if he has not logged on to this site for a week he cannot respond to something that he has not yet read (BW's point).

Maybe its because JV "as an internationally recognized DS who is running a ProTour team with a budget in the millions of euros" is too busy to check this site?

 

[buckwheat]

Can you point out where JV has said that. In the blue you have gone from him "essentially" saying that" to full on "when he says stuff like that...", so where has he said this?

The only point he said in private to Buckwheat was "if you don't believe me contact these people"..... which BW did not do and essentially changed their position. Then after a few days changed back to their original position and blames JV for not answering an email that he probably has not read yet.
Now thats spineless.

Great - you say you are not the issue and then try and say that I am?
Point out where I have "started getting out of line here".

The only thing I am doing is showing that you have not done as requested and have gone back to your original position without checking the facts as you should have - you are trying to have it both ways.

No idea what you mean by Kimmage or Walsh - if you contacted them about JV you would be asking their opinions on the guy - not asking them to a write a piece on him. They are not robots - and I would guess you would receive two different opinions.

Kimmage and Walsh are paid for their opinions. I'm not paid to interview them and try to extract information from them, and then publish it here for free.

Now, if JV supplied me with their contact info and they, PK and DW, asked where I got it and who planted the idea in my head that they could vouch for JV, I would go ahead and talk to them. This has not happened because JV has not gotten back to me for whatever reason.

I would be extremely interested in WADA/Howman because he's just about the only one who could come close to settling the issue on JV's "strategy."

Mike Anderson has been on here and has been critical of those prominent in the cycling community for not speaking up.

When someone with a name comes on here and can counter TexPat, obviously that opinion would have to be strongly considered.

 

[buckwheat]

I am merely pointing out the obvious - if he has not logged on to this site for a week he cannot respond to something that he has not yet read (BW's point).

Maybe its because JV "as an internationally recognized DS who is running a ProTour team with a budget in the millions of euros" is too busy to check this site?

But he wasn't too busy to answer some anonymous crank?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I am merely pointing out the obvious - if he has not logged on to this site for a week he cannot respond to something that he has not yet read (BW's point).

Maybe its because JV "as an internationally recognized DS who is running a ProTour team with a budget in the millions of euros" is too busy to check this site?

Nope. I've been in a smaller version of his shoes, and have spent time with many guys with bigger feet.

As busy and as stressed-out as he may be, there will be more than enough time to check a website. Especially if you just got in a dust-up with a poster, dropped a bit of a bomb, and then f*cked off.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Nope. I've been in a smaller version of his shoes, and have spent time with many guys with bigger feet.

As busy and as stressed-out as he may be, there will be more than enough time to check a website. Especially if you just got in a dust-up with a poster, dropped a bit of a bomb, and then f*cked off.

And again I am pointing out that by viewing his profile we can see clearly that (for whatever reason) he has not been back on this site.

As for a "dust-up", well perhaps JV left with the impression that having corresponded with BW and telling him who to contact that he had answered all that was expected of him and that BW would contact them and it would clear up the matter.

 

[buckwheat]

And again I am pointing out that by viewing his profile we can see clearly that (for whatever reason) he has not been back on this site.

As for a "dust-up", well perhaps JV left with the impression that having corresponded with BW and telling him who to contact that he had answered all that was expected of him and that BW would contact them and it would clear up the matter.

You're mischaracterizing what JV wrote and how he addressed me. I took down the JV PM because of veiled, threats/accusations, whatever they may be called.

He made it clear he woud serve up the contact information to help me see the situation in the way he portrayed it.

Leaving out anything that can be construed as an insult, I'll fall back on JMBeuashrimp's post...

That's where I stand until I can get the info from JV.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Kimmage and Walsh are paid for their opinions. I'm not paid to interview them and try to extract information from them, and then publish it here for free.

Now, if JV supplied me with their contact info and they, PK and DW, asked where I got it and who planted the idea in my head that they could vouch for JV, I would go ahead and talk to them. This has not happened because JV has not gotten back to me for whatever reason.

I would be extremely interested in WADA/Howman because he's just about the only one who could come close to settling the issue on JV's "strategy."

Mike Anderson has been on here and has been critical of those prominent in the cycling community for not speaking up.

When someone with a name comes on here and can counter TexPat, obviously that opinion would have to be strongly considered.

Well you have clearly never spoken to either - as they are approachable and have never charged for their time or opinion.

Again you appear to be using this as an excuse to not get in touch - if you had been in contact with them and they did refuse to speak to you or requested a charge then it would be a different matter.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

And again I am pointing out that by viewing his profile we can see clearly that (for whatever reason) he has not been back on this site.

As for a "dust-up", well perhaps JV left with the impression that having corresponded with BW and telling him who to contact that he had answered all that was expected of him and that BW would contact them and it would clear up the matter.

Nope. Again.

JV said he'd provide the contact info to BW to 'clear up the matter'.

According to BW's above post, JV hasn't provided the info.

 

[buckwheat]

Nope. Again.

JV said he'd provide the contact info to BW to 'clear up the matter'.

According to BW's above post, JV hasn't provided the info.

I've contacted some of the involved parties. Whether they respond or not is out of my hands.

JV knows what the perception of himself is both Pro and Con.

Ball's in his court..

 

[buckwheat]

Well you have clearly never spoken to either - as they are approachable and have never charged for their time or opinion.

Again you appear to be using this as an excuse to not get in touch - if you had been in contact with them and they did refuse to speak to you or requested a charge then it would be a different matter.

And if they refused to speak with me it means anything?

What would it mean either good or bad?

It's up to JV to clear this stuff if he wants to.

It's not up to me to contact these guys without him providing me with the info.

I also gave JV my name, tele # and two addresses......

So, unless this stuff is in the mail, I haven't heard.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Nope. Again.

JV said he'd provide the contact info to BW to 'clear up the matter'.

According to BW's above post, JV hasn't provided the info.

No - he said if BW wished he would provide the details, it looks from BWs public posts that he was happy to drop the matter.
Some time later BW decided he wanted the info from JV - however JV has not been on this site since then.

I have offered to either forward the details to BW or directly correspond with those contacts if he wished - because if they are genuinely interested in hearing the opinions of others then it should not matter who supplies the contact info - its BS.

 

[buckwheat]

No - he said if BW wished he would provide the details, it looks from BWs public posts that he was happy to drop the matter.
Some time later BW decided he wanted the info from JV - however JV has not been on this site since then.

I have offered to either forward the details to BW or directly correspond with those contacts if he wished - because if they are genuinely interested in hearing the opinions of others then it should not matter who supplies the contact info - its BS.

You go on and contact them then....

I forwarded a PM to a contributor on this forum who is involved in this.

Whether this contributor responds or not, can mean a lot of things, none of which I'm prepared to decipher......