JV reaches out to anonymous critic.

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Jun 1, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
Ironically, JV has recently logged-in (responding to a PM I sent him), and now Buckwheat can't receive PM's if JV were to attempt it (being that he's suspended).
Can you share what JV had to say in the PM?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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microdose said:
Can you share what JV had to say in the PM?
I reached-out to him by saying that I realized that he's not able to comment about certain things, so I asked him to liken his own situation to that of a popular literary/film/whatever character's situation. You know, to help us relate to things he can't talk about. His reply was that he likens himself to the guy in Braveheart that compromised and let Mel Gibson get killed, but then went on to reunite Scotland... but very sad while he's doing it.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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NashbarShorts said:
Somehow I think JV's world is a bit bigger than whether or not he's able to PM a banned forum user! :p
Interesting you should say that, as JV has also PM'd me seeking to give the requested info to Buckwheat.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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NashbarShorts said:
Robert the Bruce? I would have guessed Don Quixote. :D

Must be the off-season!
He was kind enough to reply, and I'll thank him for that. I was hoping for Mitch McDeere, or something that might involve albino mobsters and perhaps a car chase, but I'll take Robert the Bruce.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
I reached-out to him by saying that I realized that he's not able to comment about certain things, so I asked him to liken his own situation to that of a popular literary/film/whatever character's situation. You know, to help us relate to things he can't talk about. His reply was that he likens himself to the guy in Braveheart that compromised and let Mel Gibson get killed, but then went on to reunite Scotland... but very sad while he's doing it.
Directly to the point we were raising earlier - that he's a natural politician. Or groomed to be one...

I'm sure he's very sad. Unfortunately the only one who has to live with his conscience is him. The rest of us have to keep living with the half-measures that those with clout keep taking.
 
BotanyBay said:
I reached-out to him by saying that I realized that he's not able to comment about certain things, so I asked him to liken his own situation to that of a popular literary/film/whatever character's situation. You know, to help us relate to things he can't talk about. His reply was that he likens himself to the guy in Braveheart that compromised and let Mel Gibson get killed, but then went on to reunite Scotland... but very sad while he's doing it.
Isn't that the guy who lived his life as a cowardly weasel and everything he did was done with an eye toward increasing his and his family's wealth and stature, even to the point of betraying those who believed in him, but somehow at the very very end grew a pair and decided to risk himself fighting for a principle?

JV might be more honest than I give him credit for. At least he got the first part right. I don't have high hopes that it will end the same.

The real Robert the Bruce ended up as King of Scotland after murdering the legitimate heir. I wonder if that is in JV's plan as well.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Isn't that the guy who lived his life as a cowardly weasel and everthing he did was done with an eye toward increasing his and his family's wealth and stature, even to the point of betraying those who believed in him, but somewhoe at the very end grew a pair and decided to risk himself fighting for a principle?

JV might be more honest than I give him credit for. At least he got the first part right. I don't have high hopes that it will end the same.
I dunno. I've got this weird thing against watching films that show people trotting around England on horses in cold weather hundreds of years ago. That and any film that shows people with house servants. In other words: Never saw it.

But I have no doubt this current case took a lot more than Novitzky to get started. I do hope that JV is ultimately willing to provide a full accounting of his role in what's been happening in cycling that past 15 years (then and now).
 
Jul 6, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
I dunno. I've got this weird thing against watching films that show people trotting around England on horses in cold weather hundreds of years ago. That and any film that shows people with house servants. In other words: Never saw it.

But I have no doubt this current case took a lot more than Novitzky to get started. I do hope that JV is ultimately willing to provide a full accounting of his role in what's been happening in cycling that past 15 years (then and now).
I guess we'll see what comes out. I keep getting the distinct feeling that LA has JV by the b*lls, and it's not only JV's aspirations that are keeping him tight lipped.

I find it ironically amusing that JV is publicly willing to look like Robert the Bruce.

Selling out a nation's heart while entrenching the throne for yourself... Might end up sounding like it cuts a little close to the bone.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
I keep getting the distinct feeling that LA has JV by the b*lls, and it's not only JV's aspirations that are keeping him tight lipped.
I'd imagine that if you had a really good post-pro racing gig going, the last thing you'd ever want in your life is Lance Armstrong and his accompanying sickness.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
I'd imagine that if you had a really good post-pro racing gig going, the last thing you'd ever want in your life is Lance Armstrong and his accompanying sickness.
Oh, the deeds that go unpunished...

JV hasn't concretley DONE much to keep cycling clean. He has, on the other hand, SAID a lot to make it look like he's doing it.

It's a shame you're coloured with the company you keep. What's his connection with Lance, again?
 
May 26, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Oh, the deeds that go unpunished...

JV hasn't concretley DONE much to keep cycling clean. He has, on the other hand, SAID a lot to make it look like he's doing it.

It's a shame you're coloured with the company you keep. What's his connection with Lance, again?
it may be that Armstrong is holding his Petolas :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Directly to the point we were raising earlier - that he's a natural politician. Or groomed to be one...

I'm sure he's very sad. Unfortunately the only one who has to live with his conscience is him. The rest of us have to keep living with the half-measures that those with clout keep taking.
Here we go again.

I have to ask 'JMB' - what "clout" has JV to do anything? This is the part I do not get in your position. I can see that Buckwheat (& to a lesser extent BotanyBay) have confused JVs position with some political righteousness.

But I don't understand your view. As you say you were someone involved in the sport then I would assume you know JVs (limited) place within its hierachy.
He is a General manager/CEO of a ProTeam - how does that give him "clout"?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
He is a General manager/CEO of a ProTeam - how does that give him "clout"?
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

It's like saying George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre did not have clout because they were not MLB.

The opinion of that ProTour license holder (combined with several other license holders) IS the current UCI.

JV is one of the only true insiders with a real connection to what has been going on for the past 18 years. And he has a direct connection to whatever happened with Lance.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

It's like saying George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre did not have clout because they were not MLB.

The opinion of that ProTour license holder (combined with several other license holders) IS the current UCI.

JV is one of the only true insiders with a real connection to what has been going on for the past 18 years. And he has a direct connection to whatever happened with Lance.
Listen - yet again I ask a simple question......and this is your answer
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

Surely if the answer is so simple yoiu could answer it simply instead of adding in 2 people who I have never heard of in a sport I dont give a **** about.

Again - what "clout" has JV as a GM/CEO of a ProTeam?
 
Jul 6, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

It's like saying George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre did not have clout because they were not MLB.

The opinion of that ProTour license holder (combined with several other license holders) IS the current UCI.

JV is one of the only true insiders with a real connection to what has been going on for the past 18 years. And he has a direct connection to whatever happened with Lance.
This is the 'pig' I keep poking, Dr Mas.

Part of me is poking fun at the whole scene on this forum, part is pointing out that JV (Mr Clean) has a sordid past, part is revealing that Mr Clean is not willing to admit to that while profiteering off of the CLEAN TEAM monicker.

Pick what you will.

He undeniably has clout, though. He runs a Pro Tour team, and has access to media exposure most would be enviable of.

It's back to the Mr. Clean image and public persona we were all ****ing about a week ago.

Half-measures.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
This is the 'pig' I keep poking, Dr Mas.

Part of me is poking fun at the whole scene on this forum, part is pointing out that JV (Mr Clean) has a sordid past, part is revealing that Mr Clean is not willing to admit to that while profiteering off of the CLEAN TEAM monicker.

Pick what you will.

He undeniably has clout, though. He runs a Pro Tour team, and has access to media exposure most would be enviable of.

It's back to the Mr. Clean image and public persona we were all ****ing about a week ago.

Half-measures.
Ok, thanks you - we are getting closer to your position.
I do understand the LA angle to a point - in that he has to be 100% honest if called by the Feds.

Where has JV ever said he (as you suggest) is 'Mr. Clean"? He has said he is trying to run a 'clean' environment for his riders - so the connection with LA on that is nil.

EDIT- I wil add, sure JV has good access to the media - but thats not clout - he cant talk a change.
The power (unfortunatley) is with the UCI and also ASO - JVs input is minimal.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Listen - yet again I ask a simple question......and this is your answer
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

Surely if the answer is so simple yoiu could answer it simply instead of adding in 2 people who I have never heard of in a sport I dont give a **** about.

Again - what "clout" has JV as a GM/CEO of a ProTeam?
The clout to work together with other GM/CEOs of ProTour teams and break away from the UCI and deal directly (and exclusively) with ASO (which almost happened just a few years ago). The UCI was almost abandoned by the team owners as a result of their disrespect for "clout".

That same clout can be utilized in a wide variety of other ways.
 
May 14, 2010
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BotanyBay said:
If you don't think a guy who has a ProTour license has clout, you lack a fundamental understanding of how the UCI has transformed the sport through it's ever-increasing, almost exclusive focus on professional road racing.

It's like saying George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre did not have clout because they were not MLB.

The opinion of that ProTour license holder (combined with several other license holders) IS the current UCI.

JV is one of the only true insiders with a real connection to what has been going on for the past 18 years. And he has a direct connection to whatever happened with Lance.
Right. But whatever JV might be doing, you can bet he's doing it in such a way that his presence in the sport, and his responsibilities to those around him, are accounted for to a reasonable degree. In other words he isn't going to cut off nose to spite face.

For all we know, JV might be one of the primary witnesses against Armstrong, and doing everything he can to facilitate this investigation. Certainly if that were the case he wouldn't be broadcasting it. Better to work quietly and be effective than boast from rooftops and make yourself an easy target. The jury's still out on Jonathan Vaughters.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
The clout to work together with other GM/CEOs of ProTour teams and break away from the UCI and deal directly (and exclusively) with ASO (which almost happened just a few years ago). The UCI was almost abandoned by the team owners as a result of their disrespect for "clout".

That same clout can be utilized in a wide variety of other ways.
What?

So his "clout" is he is 1/20th of a UCI run system that can "break away" and do a deal with ASO - a deal that ASO does not want to do as they are a business.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
What?

So his "clout" is he is 1/20th of a UCI run system that can "break away" and do a deal with ASO - a deal that ASO does not want to do as they are a business.
If you don't think one guy with 5% of the marbles has clout, then you should come out and proclaim that no one has any (including McQuaid).

He might not have the MOST clout, but he certainly has it.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
If you don't think one guy with 5% of the marbles has clout, then you should come out and proclaim that no one has any (including McQuaid).

He might not have the MOST clout, but he certainly has it.
No.
He has 5% of a ProTeam system - which he has 0% clout of as its run by Alain Rumph for the UCI.

McQuaid has clout - and actually JVs only clout is as head of AIGCP but even that has no direct on the UCI who are the decision makers.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Ok, thanks you - we are getting closer to your position.
I do understand the LA angle to a point - in that he has to be 100% honest if called by the Feds.

Where has JV ever said he (as you suggest) is 'Mr. Clean"? He has said he is trying to run a 'clean' environment for his riders - so the connection with LA on that is nil.

EDIT- I wil add, sure JV has good access to the media - but thats not clout - he cant talk a change.
The power (unfortunatley) is with the UCI and also ASO - JVs input is minimal.
I'm just trying to pull this thread back to its original point. I guess not THIS thread, but the original one that spawned this one. That being that JV is purporting himself to be a clean DS running a manifestly clean team.

As to the US fed issues... All of that sort of makes these threads moot since we don't know what JV's going to be asked to verify under oath.

I just like keeping it fresh in everyones' minds that he professes the Clean Team angle, and may have a few skeletons in his closet that need airing.

As I said, his disclosure may be limited to what his involvement in the US investigation is. I keep hoping that that's what it is.

As to 'Mr Clean', well... I just thought that was sort of catchy, and the fact that I could use some sleep might absolve me of my misdeeds.
 

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