JV talks, sort of

[BroDeal]

He invites discussion on Twitter about the role doping played in his retirement.

Jonathan VaughtersVerified ‏@Vaughters
I wonder if anyone is curious as to why I quit racing at 29, and walked away from the last 2 yrs of a pretty phat contract? Must be crazy..

 

[BigBoat]

I remember this: Srry, just cant get over that he he.

 

[ElChingon]

At this point after all the BS he's sputtered about saying he's not saying anything then says more BS...

Basically wants more attention, his day in the doping limelight are long gone, he could say whatever he wants and it should/will be pasted down near those tiny ads no one reads (because they're so tiny).

Or was he drunk when he tweeted that

 

[BroDeal]

According to Podium Cafe there is lot of detail in subsequent conversations but as I really hate Twitter I do not want to figure out how to find the stuff.

 

[blackcat]

tell us why Wiggins head grew an inch vertically over the past 6 years. Does this fit with your hgh and growth of foreheads theory. And if not, why not.

And if Wiggins had this innate talent and earning capacity, why was he not exploiting this economic potential as a 25yo.

You gont have to read Michael Lewis to discern how economics influences sport and sporting decisions in the clubhouse or back office. Why was Wiggins not a multi millionare, say, like Basso, or Valverde, or Contador?

Is it, because there was such GC depth, he took the moneyball route, and picked his sweetspot, which was not GC.

But then why did he not cherrypick chrono wins, to boost his eonomic value in the Protour. Like Michael Rogers. Like Michael Rogers.

Freiburg anyone

Ferrari anyone

like Michael Rogers.

Come on JV, we aint idiots. You told us you could pick em, but could not afford to keep him. More, you could not afford to refuse DB buying out his contract for one million GBP eh.

 

[BroDeal]

"ok, first: we are the only team that has ever made this data available. Dim, Sky will never publish it. Ever."

Hmmmm...

"if I talk the talk, I need to walk the walk. Next few months are going to be tough. But better in the long run."

 

[blackcat]

but he already told us Wiggins was clean. What more evidence do we need that Wiggins is clean apart from the word of our good friend JonnyVee

 

[D-Queued]

He invites discussion on Twitter about the role doping played in his retirement.

Jonathan VaughtersVerified ‏@Vaughters
I wonder if anyone is curious as to why I quit racing at 29, and walked away from the last 2 yrs of a pretty phat contract? Must be crazy..

Not crazy.

I am sure he has scruples. He is just outnumbered and outgunned. The Dutch boy with a finger in a crumbling dike.

Dave.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

@dimspace @pjakma ... There are experts that analyze this data. Why don't you trust them? Because its UCI? That's understandable.

@Vaughters @pjakma my suggestion for Bradley, is that he gives his data to ashenden. Ashenden then publishes them with a full report

@dimspace @pjakma Brad will get sex change surgery before he does that. Esp via Aschenden.

Doesn't Brad trust the experts?

And what's wrong with Ashenden? ****ed that he estimated the chance of AC's blood values being natural at ~1/7000, even though you had "very good sources" (Saiz and Hog? ) telling you Bert was clean? Or is it because he says the passport doesn't eliminate significant blood boosting?

 

[blackcat]

definiton of scruples when cognitive dissonance is overwhelming.

He is holding two countervailing positions that cannot be reconciled.

Can you change the culture from the inside. That is the question.

Is mitigation of peds a respectable aim.

I have some points of contest here, but Savulescu has to give something that demonstrates that the sport/emperor has no clothes. http://www.spiegel.de/international...ing-in-sports-should-be-allowed-a-844939.html

 

[blackcat]

passport and values aint the solution. Ash just released his study that was him mimicking epo microdosing straight in the vein, to see if he could tweak the blood passport numbers and pass (as a doper would aim to). And he found no difference in those numbers he got back.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Here was my chat with him yesterday, I started by asking if the reason he walked was because he was "cursed with a conscience"...

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters

@JMBeaushrimp Close.. I had immense respect for Roger Legeay. Was a bit tired of disappointing him. 2 ways to stop disappointing him

Mildly cryptic, but also quite revealing.

He's playing from the inside, and as far as that goes I have hard time bagging on him.

As my favourite quote goes: "Things could be worse. Oh, things could be so much worse..."

 

[BikeCentric]

I could care less what JV has to say anymore. He's basically trying to play both sides of the doping issue from within the system. So he sees himself as some kind of bad *** hero like "Yojimbo" but the reality is he's smeared himself in so much crap by now that he has zero credibility left to the people who want to see clean pro cycling. We all know JV shot himself full of EPO to temporarily hold the hill climb TT time up Ventoux in the Dauphine, he admitted as much cryptically - but of course he can't make a full admission because remember "he's playing both sides" and can't get fired.

And don't tell me Wigans was clean on Garmin. Hesjedal? Vande Velde? I don't think so. JV is clearly looking the other way and talking out of both sides of his mouth in an attempt to again, gain credibility from "both sides of the issue."

Those of you with eyes open should recognize him for the duplicitious wannabe hipster loser POS he is by now.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

@Vaughters @pjakma my suggestion for Bradley, is that he gives his data to ashenden. Ashenden then publishes them with a full report

@dimspace @pjakma Brad will get sex change surgery before he does that. Esp via Aschenden.

And there you have it.

As to JV. Props for actually talking to USADA, provided he is telling them the whole truth. Beyond that, I don't think he really needs to be saying anything right now to hardcore fans. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[badboygolf16v]

but he already told us Wiggins was clean. What more evidence do we need that Wiggins is clean apart from the word of our good friend JonnyVee

I am still really interested to know how many other Garmin riders went to see Del Moral in 2009. JV never cleared that one up to my satisfaction.

 

[BroDeal]

@dimspace @pjakma ... There are experts that analyze this data. Why don't you trust them? Because its UCI? That's understandable.

@Vaughters @pjakma my suggestion for Bradley, is that he gives his data to ashenden. Ashenden then publishes them with a full report

@dimspace @pjakma Brad will get sex change surgery before he does that. Esp via Aschenden.

Doesn't Brad trust the experts?

And what's wrong with Ashenden? ****ed that he estimated the chance of AC's blood values being natural at ~1/7000, even though you had "very good sources" (Saiz and Hog? ) telling you Bert was clean? Or is it because he says the passport doesn't eliminate significant blood boosting?

Just like Armstrong and Nixon, it looks like Wiggins keeps an enemies list. Both Ashenden and Kimmage are on it.

 

[Benotti69]

Just like Armstrong and Nixon, it looks like Wiggins keeps an enemies list. Both Ashenden and Kimmage are on it.

Now if you were all for a clean peloton why would these 2 be your enemies.

Wiggin's riding clean is the biggest joke since Armstrong.

I wonder do they do any research into people's backgrounds before awarding a knighthood in the UK. They should otherwise it will be an embarrassment when the most decorated GB Olympic hero turns out to be a doper.

 

[hrotha]

Now if you were all for a clean peloton why would these 2 be your enemies.

Wiggin's riding clean is the biggest joke since Armstrong.

I wonder do they do any research into people's backgrounds before awarding a knighthood in the UK. They should otherwise it will be an embarrassment when the most decorated GB Olympic hero turns out to be a doper.

I could understand if Wiggo disliked Kimmage's personality or whatever. But what has Ashenden ever done to him? When have they interacted?

 

[Benotti69]

I could understand if Wiggo disliked Kimmage's personality or whatever. But what has Ashenden ever done to him? When have they interacted?

Whether Wiggins dislike's Kimmage's personalilty, he is pretty stupid not to see Kimmage as someone on the side of the fight for a cleaner sport.

Why would Wiggins make an enemy of him if they both wanted the same thing?

Also Wiggins would not have gotten to know Kimmage that well nor would he be in his company much if at all apart from Kimmage's time at Garmin during the TdF and the interview Wiggins gave Kimmage.

It is either his man love for Armstrong or Wiggins is a F****** W***** with a huge ego who cant see past the end of his nose.

I guess both

Add to that he dislikes Ashenden, well that is strange given his 2007 comments, but not given his recent stance.

So we have the metamorphosis of Wiggins the so called clean cyclist into the doped TdF winner.

 

[Benotti69]

Is JV trying to send out signals about Wiggins and Sky?

Is he hoping that they will reign themselves in? Hardly now that they have fixed their 'program' in place and it has reached huge dividends.

Or is he jealous and venting that.

I cant imagine JV believes what Sky are doing is clean.

But them some of us dont believe Garmin.

 

[hrotha]

Whether Wiggins dislike's Kimmage's personalilty, he is pretty stupid not to see Kimmage as someone on the side of the fight for a cleaner sport.

Yeah but I'd be willing to cut him some slack if it was only Kimmage, because that might mean he hates him for genuine reasons, and I can see why he wouldn't want him in the Sky bus if that were the case. But what has Ashenden done? Only things that would bother a doper: talk about how it's possible to fool the biological passport, discuss blood doping openly, accuse Armstrong, etc etc.

I don't think JV believes in Wiggins anymore.

 

[roundabout]

I never knew that winning the Route du Sud and being first (second?) in the Dauphine would be worth that much money in 1999.

Or was it a second contract with CA that was that much?

Meh.

Edit: and JV does believe in Wiggins. I hate twitter because context is non-existent, but it seems that JV believes that UCI testing is sufficient and there is no reason for extra scrutiny.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

Edit: and JV does believe in Wiggins. I hate twitter because context is non-existent, but it seems that JV believes that UCI testing is sufficient and there is no reason for extra scrutiny.

If true it shows that JV is indeed a hypocrite and then one might assume Garmin are trying to do a sky, but have not got the same huge resources.

But they did bag the Giro so cant be too far off Sky's type of program. Hesjedal's training in Hawaii similar to Sky in Tenerife?

 

[Le breton]

I could care less what JV has to say anymore. He's basically trying to play both sides of the doping issue from within the system. So he sees himself as some kind of bad *** hero like "Yojimbo" but the reality is he's smeared himself in so much crap by now that he has zero credibility left to the people who want to see clean pro cycling. We all know JV shot himself full of EPO to temporarily hold the hill climb TT time up Ventoux in the Dauphine, he admitted as much cryptically - but of course he can't make a full admission because remember "he's playing both sides" and can't get fired.

And don't tell me Wigans was clean on Garmin. Hesjedal? Vande Velde? I don't think so. JV is clearly looking the other way and talking out of both sides of his mouth in an attempt to again, gain credibility from "both sides of the issue."

Those of you with eyes open should recognize him for the duplicitious wannabe hipster loser POS he is by now.

Vaughters is in an uncomfortable position.

The 1999 Criterium du Dauphiné Libéré was probably a very significant race for many insiders in the pro racing field. Since it was held in France where police had played a very significant role in the 1998 Festina affair, a number of teams/racers were probably very cautious.

However, if you read between the lines of his various statements, Vaughters was clearly not one of those cautious racers. There is in particular the fact that he never took pride in that incredible performance.

A summary of the stages can be found here :
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jun99/dauphine99.html

At the time - around 1999 - I was one of the regulars on the komcycling forum and took an incredible amount of abuse from the mostly US-based contributors - particularly since they knew I was French - when I wrote post 99 TdF that L.A. was clearly on PEDs. So it's nice to see that at long last the opinion about US pro cycling has matured in the USA.

Of course Ventoux has always been in the limelight when it comes to PEDs.

In 1955 Malléjac (from Landerneau, about 40 km from where I am from and hometown of Edouard Leclerc known to everybody who shops for food and other goods in France, in 1955 had only one makeshift store) had a narrow escape from death on the Ventoux slopes due to amphetamines.

1958 : Gaul wins the TT in 1:02:09, does not stop on the finish line (at about 1895 m, not 1909m as often stated) and immediately takes refuge in a camping car or whatever where nobody could see him.
So, to me his performance seems fraudulent.
Moral winner : Baghamontès 1:02:40

1967 : Simpson, I don't need to say more

1987 : the ITT starts in Carpentras, but l'Equipe published the times for the climb itself. Jeff Bernard changed bike near Bédoin and climbed it in 58:08.

But Herrera, who needed about 40 s more, ie about 58:48 IIRC, was the moral winner as it is hard for me to believe Jeff did it on just plain water. I have more confidence in Herrera.

1999 : Vaughters 56:50.
On a scale of 1 to 10, his credibility is 0.

Here are the results of the climb
1. Jonathan Vaughters (USA) US Postal Service 56.50.9
2. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Casino 42.7
3. Wladimir Belli (Ita) Festina-Lotus 43.8
4. Joseba Beloki Dorronsoro (Spa) Euskatel-Euskadi 51.84
5. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.01.2
6. Kevin Livingston (USA) US Postal Service 1.25.5
7. David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis 1.40.6
8. Unaï Osa (Spa) Banesto 2.01.1
9. Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal Service 2.18.1
10. Roberto Laiseka Jaio (Spa) Euskatel-Euskadi 2.18.2

I don't know about Vinokourov in 1999. Maybe he was clean then.
I wouldn't bet 1 cent on any of the others except for Moncoutié.

In early 1999 an article in L'Equipe described anonymous physiological tests on various French riders done pre-season(SMLC program). One of those riders could only have been Moncoutié. Pre-season his VO2 max was 84, but his weight was already only 69 kg.

Time is running, I have to stop here.

 

[Trond Vidar]

1999 : Vaughters 56:50.
On a scale of 1 to 10, his credibility is 0.

Here are the results of the climb
1. Jonathan Vaughters (USA) US Postal Service 56.50.9
2. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Casino 42.7
3. Wladimir Belli (Ita) Festina-Lotus 43.8
4. Joseba Beloki Dorronsoro (Spa) Euskatel-Euskadi 51.84
5. Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 1.01.2
6. Kevin Livingston (USA) US Postal Service 1.25.5
7. David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis 1.40.6
8. Unaï Osa (Spa) Banesto 2.01.1
9. Tyler Hamilton (USA) US Postal Service 2.18.1
10. Roberto Laiseka Jaio (Spa) Euskatel-Euskadi 2.18.2

He seems to agree:

@fmk_RoI 1999 dauphine, ventoux stage: VAM 1912, w/kg 6.8.... See why I feel cycling is clean now?

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/225617454045478913