JV talks, sort of

[the delgados]

Amelie wasn't crap cause it wasn't 'proper' art house, it was crap cause it was Disney does manic pixie dream girl toss. The pretty colours dulled the senses as it went down (and One Way Ticket coulda done with some of them pretty colours) but once down it offered nothing.

That's twice you've tried play the anti-intellectual 'snob' card. Don't make it three.

fmk_Rol: I am most definitely not trying to play the snob card. I don't know you, but I suspect you mistake a compliment for a jab. I'm not a mensa member, but based on the vast majority of your posts, you seem to have your back up and ready to pounce. I mean this from the bottom of my heart that I appreciate your contributions. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass and one up you. I mean what I say.
I live in a society where smart people are generally looked down upon by the voting public. I assure you I am the last person who would dismiss intellectuals.
As has been stated in the past, my only beef with you is your tendency to rip someone apart because you have a different viewpoint. That's it. Nothing more or less.
Your contributions are valued, but you might want to cut out the Mexican stand-off schit. It is not very becoming of an intellectual. p.s. Edited to say that sometimes your differing viewpoints are not always right. I know that might be hard for you to digest, but you are not always the smartest person in the room.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The asperger's stuff is something else. As an early childhood educator...NAH. Complete bull&#^$. Please don't use that excuse to be an as&hoIe

He really does lean into it, doesn't he, in interviews he really is using it to justify being a ***?

In the book, it's not really so. The biggest problem with in and the book is where it comes in the book / in the book's writing process. He really should have been able to use it as a prism to reframe the past but, as with the bullying, he doesn't go there. It's like he's got a picture of the past he doesn't want to challenge.

 

[the delgados]

I'm sure someone like Trent Lowe would challenge past events. If memory serves, JV terminated his contract because the guy wasn't fit. A contract is a contract, regardless of a rider's current state.
Those who have been bullied are not immune from bullying.

 

[ppanther92]

OT: Why did Vuaghters never finish a TdF? In fact, in the 4 starts he only ever lasted for some days before quitting. There surely can be made a heartbreaking case for clean cyclist that was forced out of the race for sheer speed but Vaughters was a) not clean and b) did perform extremely well in 3 of the years in the Dauphine. I guess the team was also kind off dissappointed if not angry. A guy who can finish the Dauphine on the podium should be a super-domestique and not quit after a few stages at the Tour, where he finished way off the pace...

 

[wansteadimp]

OT: Why did Vuaghters never finish a TdF? In fact, in the 4 starts he only ever lasted for some days before quitting. There surely can be made a heartbreaking case for clean cyclist that was forced out of the race for sheer speed but Vaughters was a) not clean and b) did perform extremely well in 3 of the years in the Dauphine. I guess the team was also kind off dissappointed if not angry. A guy who can finish the Dauphine on the podium should be a super-domestique and not quit after a few stages at the Tour, where he finished way off the pace...

3 crashes (2 x on descents) and a wasp sting above the eye which he couldn't use cortisone for.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There's also plenty of riders who are world class over one week but simply don't have the endurance for a three week race to still be competitive throughout if they could make it to the end, or if they can it tends to be below the level they can show when recovery is less of a factor. There's no shame in that at all. Iban Mayo is a good example, as is Richie Porte, who took until well into his 30s to produce a genuine Grand Tour GC result (no, 2010 doesn't really count because of the time gift and even if he'd have still been 10th without it, he'd still have been 13 minutes further adrift, which might be a good placement but isn't really competitive in terms of winning) but was one of the best in the world over a one week race. Simon Špilak barely even bothered with three week races. Then there's others for whom recovery is in fact their greatest asset; Steven Kruijswijk was not that spectacular an espoir, largely because the stage races weren't long enough for his excellent recovery abilities to come to the fore and become the kind of advantage they are in the three week races.

 

[fmk_RoI]

There's also plenty of riders who are world class over one week but simply don't have the endurance for a three week race

I think you have to include mental endurance as well as physical. It's pretty clear with JV - both from general statements and from his autobiog - that he was uncomfortable with aspects of doping and struggled with the pressure. In those circumstance, you tend to create your own bad luck.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think you have to include mental endurance as well as physical. It's pretty clear with JV - both from general statements and from his autobiog - that he was uncomfortable with aspects of doping and struggled with the pressure. In those circumstance, you tend to create your own bad luck.

Confirming your observation; I recall an article where he felt had to go so deep as to be constantly on the edge in some situations. He felt his crashes were largely due to either the effort or being in the wrong place at the wrong time and that was an indicator of a rider with little GT future. He was a phenomenal climber as a domestic junior and Espoir, seemed destined to be a great pro. He sounded honest about his limitations which is a tough admission.