JV talks, sort of

[Race Radio]

JV is smart to get out ahead of what is coming.

 

[AcademyCC]

To answer JVs question - yes, I think a lot of people do and in particular the context and what has happened after with Garmin.
Most here already know - but I think it would educate a wider audience.

Strange that he has missed opportunities to address the matter before and then goes on twitter, invites questions and gives very frank answers.
Hopefully something has changed.

He actually goes further in this exchange:
From: peter van der Veen ‏@petervdveen
To; @Vaughters OK that's a weird sentence sounds like you where taking dope to win before that. :\
JVs Reply: @petervdveen Uh...yeah.

I know the rough story but could you fill it in for me. thanks

 

[DirtyWorks]

Strange that he has missed opportunities to address the matter before and then goes on twitter, invites questions and gives very frank answers.
Hopefully something has changed.

JV doesn't strike me as a guy to randomly spit in the soup. Possibilities include
- he wants to stay on the right side of something at the rider-level not yet made public.
- he's got no money for 2013 because of Sky's fairy tale.
- it's game-on for doping at the UCI because of Sky's fairy tale.

It doesn't seem like a positive development. But, I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to this sport.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

@danmaize think all the guys were a bit vexed; reality is O2 vector drugs r more important for climbing than other aspects it hit me hardest

@Vaughters is it possible to say at least if USPS was doping during the domination they were at least on a level playing field?

@go24 I could not go along with that theory. No.

10 characters.

 

[montel]

JV is smart to get out ahead of what is coming.

This is kind of my take on it as well - control the message a bit by starting to admit to things, all so he can say he has already been open about it...

I am very curious to see what happens over the next few months. Who will be left standing of American riders???

 

[DirtyWorks]

I am very curious to see what happens over the next few months. Who will be left standing of American riders???

Most of them are 'retired' or just about to exit. You've got a handful of Americans in the ProTour after the retirees and most can fashion a plausible denial on the order of "That was long ago, so only the haters and the conspiracy nuts are left discussing it."

How about the U.S. Cycling federation being run by Tailwind? Nothing is fixed in the U.S. if USACDF's leadership does not exit.

 

[Viking]

JV doesn't strike me as a guy to randomly spit in the soup. Possibilities include
- he wants to stay on the right side of something at the rider-level not yet made public.
- he's got no money for 2013 because of Sky's fairy tale.
- it's game-on for doping at the UCI because of Sky's fairy tale.

It doesn't seem like a positive development. But, I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to this sport.

I'd say this definitely relates to the USADA/Armstrong case. I know that JV has hinted about his doping in the past, saying things like (paraphrasing) "I experimented with the hot sauce". It looks like he's being much more open now because he knows that a lot more is going to be coming out in the next few months.

 

[spalco]

Very impressed by Vaughters to do this, although in addition to twitter, he might give an interview to an actual journalist answering those questions too, wether it's Kimmage, CN, NYVelocity or whoever.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I know the rough story but could you fill it in for me. thanks

Not being smart, and if i can answer I will, but which story?

Very impressed by Vaughters to do this, although in addition to twitter, he might give an interview to an actual journalist answering those questions too, wether it's Kimmage, CN, NYVelocity or whoever.

He did an interview with Anthony Tan (IIRC) last year - and I started a thread in frustration wondering why JV did not take the opportunity to clear up his past. (he could easily get around the USPS questions by citing the then ongoing investigations)

Perhaps JV see's that USADA are about to bring down the USPS conspiracy - and has decided to start the process of discussing it?
Overall, I welcome any admission to clear up the past, however painful - it is the only way to move forward.

 

[Benotti69]

Not being smart, and if i can answer I will, but which story?


He did an interview with Anthony Tan (IIRC) last year - and I started a thread in frustration wondering why JV did not take the opportunity to clear up his past. (he could easily get around the USPS questions by citing the then ongoing investigations)

Perhaps JV see's that USADA are about to bring down the USPS conspiracy - and has decided to start the process of discussing it?
Overall, I welcome any admission to clear up the past, however painful - it is the only way to move forward.

Do you welcome the manner in which he is drip feeding it out. I dont.

Why not sit down with kimmage or Walsh (or other respected) and do it properly?

 

[AcademyCC]

Not being smart, and if i can answer I will, but which story?


He did an interview with Anthony Tan (IIRC) last year - and I started a thread in frustration wondering why JV did not take the opportunity to clear up his past. (he could easily get around the USPS questions by citing the then ongoing investigations)

Perhaps JV see's that USADA are about to bring down the USPS conspiracy - and has decided to start the process of discussing it?
Overall, I welcome any admission to clear up the past, however painful - it is the only way to move forward.

The general background to JV retiring

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do you welcome the manner in which he is drip feeding it out. I dont.

Why not sit down with kimmage or Walsh (or other respected) and do it properly?

What part of "any admission" do i have to explain?

My preference would be that he sits down with a proper journalist - but ultimately I don't really care how the truth comes out, just as long as it comes out and is acted on.

If you don't agree that's fine - I just don't see why any of it is controversial or surprising.

 

[Benotti69]

What part of "any admission" do i have to explain?

My preference would be that he sits down with a proper journalist - but ultimately I don't really care how the truth comes out, just as long as it comes out and is acted on.

If you don't agree that's fine - I just don't see why any of it is controversial or surprising.

Chill Doc!

I asked.

I prefer the truth to come out as one full admission and to someone with complete understanding of it and someone who can probe deeper into it then JV is maybe willing to admit.

I never said it was controversial or surprising and I presume USADA is acting upon it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why not sit down with kimmage or Walsh (or other respected) and do it properly?

This should be obvious to most: Because the guy does not want to p!ss off Hein or Pat and be kicked out of the top tier of Pro Cycling AFTER whatever is coming goes public.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Chill Doc!

I asked.

I prefer the truth to come out as one full admission and to someone with complete understanding of it and someone who can probe deeper into it then JV is maybe willing to admit.

I never said it was controversial or surprising and I presume USADA is acting upon it.

Fair enough - but I spent more time on the last JV thread discussing my views then discussing JV and anything he says.

Some people would prefer JV to shut up, some won't believe what he says irrespective, some people would only be happy if any admission includes the Lance ..... He may know LA doped, but may never had seen it, he wasn't part of the clique.
I guess the bigger problem is we have got bits and pieces of stories and he has manged not to satisfy any group.

The general background to JV retiring

There was a really good interview from (IIRC) 2008, with Kimmage - unfortunately its behind the paywall of the Times and I don't have access to it on this PC.

But generally speaking - he retired from Credit Agricole even though he had a contract with them. He essentially admitted he had doped at USPS but was clean at CA, yet he still left.
He had got stung at the TdF and was forced to retire, had he been at USPS he would have been able to take the PED and continue - at CA they said no.
Its easy to see that he resented that and much of his bitterness is directed at those in power who allowed that to happen.

 

[Big Doopie]

interesting take on roger legeay -- who also held his ground with Z during the onslaught of epo in the early 90s.

it may explain why the credit agricole riders were so unbelievably proud when they won the TTT at the tour in 2001, beating all the doped teams. they had trained and targeted the stage knowing that it was early on enough in the tour and because it was a TT they might be able to at least compete. imagine how it must have felt to beat all the big epo/blood doping teams...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/feature-2001-a-team-time-trial-odyssey

talk about proof that the natural hierarchy was completely out of whack due to epo/blood doping.

 

[Benotti69]

This should be obvious to most: Because the guy does not want to p!ss off Hein or Pat and be kicked out of the top tier of Pro Cycling AFTER whatever is coming goes public.

Maybe he is building to it.

Maybe he is testing the water with McQuaid by dripping it out.

Maybe he knows more than we do and envisages a changing of the guard?

Lots of maybes!

Fair enough - but I spent more time on the last JV thread discussing my views then discussing JV and anything he says.

Ok. TA.

 

[hrotha]

interesting take on roger legeay -- who also held his ground with Z during the onslaught of epo in the early 90s.

it may explain why the credit agricole riders were so unbelievably proud when they won the TTT at the tour in 2001, beating all the doped teams. they had trained and targeted the stage knowing that it was early on enough in the tour and because it was a TT they might be able to at least compete. imagine how it must have felt to beat all the big epo/blood doping teams...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/feature-2001-a-team-time-trial-odyssey

talk about proof that the natural hierarchy was completely out of whack due to epo/blood doping.

Unfortunately that article starts with the words "Bobby Julich". Although since he was reborn in CSC I suppose there's a chance he was clean between Cofidis and CSC? At any rate, of course he could just have been doing his own thing even at CA.

It also has Voigt. I wonder if Legeay gave in during the later Gan days but decided to do things right again after Festina?

 

[will10]

The Julich quote:

Julich who came to the race as the team’s GC hope remembers the atmosphere within the team. “We had the advantage of starting last but you look at the teams that were there and it was crazy, Postal, ONCE, Festina and we were just some little French team but we had a good pack of guys. Especially now knowing what we were up against. It was one for the good guys. We were the underdogs but the yellow jersey gave us extra morale.”

Hmmmm.

 

[thehog]

It also has Voigt. I wonder if Legeay gave in during the later Gan days but decided to do things right again after Festina?

There are plenty of stories about O’Grady and Voigt at CA. One in which involved Voigt actually carrying the drugs on him during a stage as he didn’t want to leave them in his suitcase! He then stopped for a natural break and buried them on the roadside!

Ullrich has a lot to say about Voigt also. The Ullrich’s disowned him.

 

[Big Doopie]

Unfortunately that article starts with the words "Bobby Julich".

i think you will find a huge drop off in results for julich from cofidis in 1998 and credit agricole. huge. and, yes, he was then "reborn" at csc.

 

[roundabout]

There are also a couple of mediocre years at Telekom along the way.

Was Telekom clean at that time?

You tell me.

 

[goggalor]

A good indicator of the direction the sport is going is Marco Pinotti. Top 5 at the Olympic TT.

Over 2 minutes down. A 22 year old Thor Hushovd was 7th in the Sydney TT, 1.20 down on Eki. So no, Pinotti's result doesn't mean anything, really, it certainly doesn't imply cycling is clean, or even cleaner.

 

[Big Doopie]

don't get me wrong, i don't doubt for second that julich doped in his career.

i do think that legeay did try to run a clean ship and that credit agricole's win in 2001 was precisely that -- it is why many of the riders who were involved talk about it almost as if it were their greatest achievement, they were in shock and celebrated heartily. and notice that it required specific training and a perfectly coached ride to pull off the upset.

as the stages accumulated and the tour headed for the mountains, i believe these riders were in no way competitive in gc.

just my thinking on the matter.

 

[hrotha]

There are plenty of stories about O’Grady and Voigt at CA. One in which involved Voigt actually carrying the drugs on him during a stage as he didn’t want to leave them in his suitcase! He then stopped for a natural break and buried them on the roadside!

Ullrich has a lot to say about Voigt also. The Ullrich’s disowned him.

Are you sure? That sounds like a distorted version of the story Jaksche told about Voigt at the 1998 Tour (Gan only became Crédit Agricole at the Clásica de San Sebastián), when allegedly he joked about burying their drugs by the roadside.

And I don't know what you mean by bringing up Ullrich.