JV talks, sort of

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Jul 10, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Just like Armstrong and Nixon, it looks like Wiggins keeps an enemies list. Both Ashenden and Kimmage are on it.
Wow, man! You put Armstrong on the same rank as Nixon? I never thought of that. Nor thought of it that way. That is very heavy. Nixon gets a silver in my Olympics for "heavies". Golds are reserved for Pol Pot, Hitler, etc. There were some popes in the 16th century that get gold, Idi Amin gets gold - you get the idea.

I am STILL appalled that Nixon won a 2nd term. It shows that most of my countrymen are prone to folly. But, it does seem pretty transparent that Armstrong kept an enemies list.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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hiero2 said:
Wow, man! You put Armstrong on the same rank as Nixon? I never thought of that. Nor thought of it that way. That is very heavy. Nixon gets a silver in my Olympics for "heavies". Golds are reserved for Pol Pot, Hitler, etc. There were some popes in the 16th century that get gold, Idi Amin gets gold - you get the idea.

I am STILL appalled that Nixon won a 2nd term. It shows that most of my countrymen are prone to folly. But, it does seem pretty transparent that Armstrong kept an enemies list.
That is what is so funny about Armstrong. He is like a cartoon villian. He must stay up late at night, mumbling to himself as he compiles the latest version of his enemies list. In a legal pad filled with X-ed out names, notes in the margin, and extra reasons put on yellow stickies, half the people who post on this forum probably have an entry.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Not being smart, and if i can answer I will, but which story?


He did an interview with Anthony Tan (IIRC) last year - and I started a thread in frustration wondering why JV did not take the opportunity to clear up his past. (he could easily get around the USPS questions by citing the then ongoing investigations)

Perhaps JV see's that USADA are about to bring down the USPS conspiracy - and has decided to start the process of discussing it?
Overall, I welcome any admission to clear up the past, however painful - it is the only way to move forward.
Ultimately the smartest way to expose the USPS program is not by dribs and drabs but an organized group effort that ultimately results in titles bin striped and more of the toxic element being pushed from the sport.

While we as fans would love JV to spill the beans in the end he would just be more fuel for the Armstrong woodchipper. Taking time to assemble a group effort that has has a likelihood of success will do more then a interview.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
This should be obvious to most: Because the guy does not want to p!ss off Hein or Pat and be kicked out of the top tier of Pro Cycling AFTER whatever is coming goes public.
Or he wants to get out ahead of Hein and Pat's attempts at interference. They play dirty
 
Aug 13, 2009
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goggalor said:
Over 2 minutes down. A 22 year old Thor Hushovd was 7th in the Sydney TT, 1.20 down on Eki. So no, Pinotti's result doesn't mean anything, really, it certainly doesn't imply cycling is clean, or even cleaner.
Taken in a vacuum but taken in the context of lower outputs and climbing times across the board it is another indicator of a cleaner sport
 
Aug 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
Can you change the culture from the inside. That is the question.
That is the only way to change it. No matter how much we chat about it here we have little effect on the sport. The sport needs teams that do not push needles, medical programs. It needs an option for those who chose not to dope.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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hrotha said:
Are you sure? That sounds like a distorted version of the story Jaksche told about Voigt at the 1998 Tour (Gan only became Crédit Agricole at the Clásica de San Sebastián), when allegedly he joked about burying their drugs by the roadside.

And I don't know what you mean by bringing up Ullrich.
Yes.

After 1998 CA changed a lot. After the Festina mess some team changed. The criminalization of doping in France, Longitudinal testing, increased police action. Some chose to change, others stepped up the gas.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Race Radio said:
That is the only way to change it. No matter how much we chat about it here we have little effect on the sport. The sport needs teams that do not push needles, medical programs. It needs an option for those who chose not to dope.
premise is you can change it.

Like the Olympics, when becomes corporatised, and economic incentives are in place, it is impossible in my personal estimate. (concede I dont know from experience).

If JV rides a meddling squad to the lower tier middling depths, say, like a Brioche Boulangerie squad, where Sylvain might knock off one W in July and justify their sponsorship, JV cannot get a follow up to Garmin in the marketplace. He needs Ryder, or a 2011 Farrar, for the cut thru for the corporate $ in the sports marketing mkt.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/ethicist-savulescu-believes-doping-in-sports-should-be-allowed-a-844939.html
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Micheal Rogers did not go to Frieburg
was the team less 2

9 - 2 =7 I think by memory

Sevilla and the Italian grimpeur guerini

who are we talking about anyhow, Rogers was a Ferrari client til T-Mobile put a kibosh on it. So we know he bought into the ethic
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Race Radio said:
A good indicator of the direction the sport is going is Marco Pinotti. Top 5 at the Olympic TT.

While it is nice to see his success how many races would he have won over the last 10 years if the sport was clean?
Not sure what u are saying here looking at Marco's previous teams:
* Polti
* LAmpre
* Saunier Duval
* Telecom
* HTC

Yes.

After 1998 CA changed a lot. After the Festina mess some team changed. The criminalization of doping in France, Longitudinal testing, increased police action. Some chose to change, others stepped up the gas
CA was no doubt the cleanest team of the peloton, nice to see the results of some riders at CA and suddenly at another team being able to win.

Back to JV. How can he state the peloton is clean seeing the Tour de farce?
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Not sure what u are saying here looking at Marco's previous teams:
* Polti
* LAmpre
* Saunier Duval
* Telecom
* HTC
You could say that about quite a lot of teams though. Bassons rode in Festina 1998 and Moncoutie rode in Cofidis during the Cofidis scandal in the early 90s. Pinotti is quite anti-doping (see below), although i know we cant believe in anyone 100%

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/marco-pinotti-interview-with-italian-cyclings-voice-of-reason-30133/
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Taken in a vacuum but taken in the context of lower outputs and climbing times across the board it is another indicator of a cleaner sport
How about Brad's self-stated 6.6 w/kg for an hour at the Worlds last year? And the w***** is stronger now. :eek:

But Froome supposedly did 5.8 w/kg at the Vuelta TT and beat Wiggins. :confused:
 
Aug 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
was the team less 2

9 - 2 =7 I think by memory

Sevilla and the Italian grimpeur guerini

who are we talking about anyhow, Rogers was a Ferrari client til T-Mobile put a kibosh on it. So we know he bought into the ethic
Rogers was not in the car.

We often make that assumption that once a doper, always a doper. Not talking about Rogers specifically but there plenty of riders, Like JV, who tried to ride clean after playing with the hot sauce.

We also often assume that all riders dope the same. The fact is there were some whose program consisted of a couple shots in the lead up to a big race and others who were consumed by it. Guys like Armstrong who did transfusions just to be top dog at the January training camp.....Kinda like the guy who doped for the Gran Fondo
 
Race Radio said:
JV is smart to get out ahead of what is coming.
Is this really what he's doing? Because it sounds like to me like he's engaging in the same vague, cryptic language he always uses when discussing the topic of doping and his involvement in it.

I'm not sure about this, but time will tell. I believe next week is when things will start shaping up.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
How about Brad's self-stated 6.6 w/kg for an hour at the Worlds last year? And the w***** is stronger now. :eek:

But Froome supposedly did 5.8 w/kg at the Vuelta TT and beat Wiggins. :confused:
I prefer to rely on SRM files not random claims and estimates. Plenty of real files from Nibali and Jani that show mid 5 w/kg
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Berzin said:
Is this really what he's doing? Because it sounds like to me like he's engaging in the same vague, cryptic language he always uses when discussing the topic of doping and his involvement in it.

I'm not sure about this, but time will tell. I believe next week is when things will start shaping up.
JV, and many members of his team, will be the target of Armstrong's media machine for the next several months. In the past those kind of smear campaigns worked but this time I think there such a critical mass of riders that it will be much harder to work
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I prefer to rely on SRM files not random claims and estimates. Plenty of real files from Nibali and Jani that show mid 5 w/kg
You think Brad just pulled 456 watts out of his behind? Why would he do that?

Also, JV claims Brad could sustain 6.1 w/kg in long TT's at Garmin, weighing 72 kg. Now he's at 69 kg and considerably faster. That improvement in a flat TT takes lots of power.
 
Race Radio said:
JV, and many members of his team, will be the target of Armstrong's media machine for the next several months. In the past those kind of smear campaigns worked but this time I think there such a critical mass of riders that it will be much harder to work.
I believe a mass smear campaign against those who gave testimony will be Armstrong's undoing. The court of public opinion would turn against him if he does so.

It's one thing to target individual ex-riders who have been disgraced and have had their credibility torn to shreds.

It's another thing to attempt to discredit a whole crew of former teammates who all testified to an organized doping program.

And then there is the question of Kristen. No one, not even Armstrong's most deluded fanboys would stand by him if he goes after the mother of his own children.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thehog said:
After providing evidence JV will give a public statement to his doping.

I think he expects to be sanctioned and his role in the team to change for at least a year.
what then should that mean?
JV's most important role is to run and supervise a doping program. He could easily continue running that program behind the scenes during suspension, since running a doping program happens behind the scenes anyway.
 
sniper said:
what then should that mean?
JV's most important role is to run and supervise a doping program. He could easily continue running that program behind the scenes during suspension, since running a doping program happens behind the scenes anyway.
This is my personal view and nothing else.

JV "feels" the bumps in the road. He realises there's about to be a Festina like flow of energy and information into the public domain.

Those who remember the Festina trails (I do, I was in France at the time) will note it was more emotional than anything else. The daily tribulations coming from the trial was fodder for the newspapers.

The same will apply here.

I believe that JV realises that his status in the world of cycling will change forever. Its all about to come into the public domain.

He doesn't trust the UCI. Those may choose to open proceedings against him for his part in providing evidence.

He's not a stupid guy. He's knows a lot. I think he needs to go find himself. That he will do after a public statement along with his reasons for not speaking in the past.

As for Garmin team doping. I believe his IM was most revealing. He put it down to logistics. By having a team in one location makes it much easier. Internal team testing which was once public and has now gone? But will leave that for another time.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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No amount of pre-Spin doctoring now will get him out of the facts that will come out (officially), do the crime do the time. There are plenty to make sure that his BS isn't used to get him out of the chaos to follow. You can't pre-serve your time through vague comments that don't even touch on the issue, but do definitely side step it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thehog said:
This is my personal view and nothing else.

JV "feels" the bumps in the road. He realises there's about to be a Festina like flow of energy and information into the public domain.

Those who remember the Festina trails (I do, I was in France at the time) will note it was more emotional than anything else. The daily tribulations coming from the trial was fodder for the newspapers.

The same will apply here.

I believe that JV realises that his status in the world of cycling will change forever. Its all about to come into the public domain.

He doesn't trust the UCI. Those may choose to open proceedings against him for his part in providing evidence.

He's not a stupid guy. He's knows a lot. I think he needs to go find himself. That he will do after a public statement along with his reasons for not speaking in the past.

As for Garmin team doping. I believe his IM was most revealing. He put it down to logistics. By having a team in one location makes it much easier. Internal team testing which was once public and has now gone? But will leave that for another time.
thanks, I like your view on this and agree he aint stupid, on the contrary.
When it comes to JV, like you I assume, I swing between respect and scepticism. The funny thing is: he deserves a lot of both.
 
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