JV talks, sort of

[mewmewmew13]

Big surprise. My wet cat avatar is safe. I didn't know if I could take looking at a wet JV avatar for a month.

Safe for a very long time I think, probably forever.

Good.
I was worried


I meant to add...I think what JV has done has been done in its proper and necessary location...maybe not here in our Clinic Land for our edification, but the end result will prove that he did the correct thing.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Years ago JV wrote this. It is still true today.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56420890/Drugs-Vaughters

With a little research you find thatred cell mass increases are directly propor-tional to VO2 and anaerobic thresholdpower increases. That would mean that if you increased your haematocrit from 42 percent to 48 per cent you would increase yourpower by 12 per cent.

From a o2 uptake standpoint the percentage gain is about half of the increase in total hemoglobin mass. So, in modern day where the bio-passport would prevent any huge jumps in Hb, say you increased from 14g/dl to 15g/dl (this all assumes that plasma volume is totally stable, which is a very big assumption and almost impossible...but anyway..)..This would bring about a total Hb increase of 6.7% [actually 7.14%], so the o2 carrying capacity increase and corresponding power increase would be about half of that, so 3.35% [3.57%]. Of course, in 1996, you could go from 14g/dl to 19g/dl quite easily, yielding a power increase of more like 13% [almost 18% since 5/14=35.7%]! There is some diminishing return after about 16g/dl however because the red cells become so crowded they can no longer deliver oxygen as efficiently, so maybe "only" 10%.

I'm now. Which is it?

 

[thehog]

Not a whole lot more to be said.

Man up for godsakes.

I assume you're one of the victims Lance speaks so knowingly about.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Relax, kiddos. I am certain any action(or lack of) I take won't be met with approval from this group.

As I've said in statements galore over the past 2 yrs: Any and all questions from anti-doping authorities will be answered honestly. Period.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

Thats the bit I don't get JV.

Firstly there is no "group". There are many different opinions on many different things here - and quite frankly you will only please some of those groups.

Lets break it down:
Some want a full frank admission.
Some want a full frank admission and you better mention you know who (regardless if you are privy to anything)
Some want a full frank admission and you better not mention you know who.
Some (like me) want to hear your story and how you felt about it, why you left cycling and then came back to start a team.
Some want you to cease and desist.


Surely the only person you need to please is yourself - and honesty, however hard it may be, is largely appreciated.

 

[Random Direction]

Relax, kiddos. I am certain any action(or lack of) I take won't be met with approval from this group.

As I've said in statements galore over the past 2 yrs: Any and all questions from anti-doping authorities will be answered honestly. Period.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

'Will be answered'... ... 'From anti-doping authorities'

Not - 'were' or 'cycling authorities'

 

[tofino]

One question that can be said

Relax, kiddos. I am certain any action(or lack of) I take won't be met with approval from this group.

As I've said in statements galore over the past 2 yrs: Any and all questions from anti-doping authorities will be answered honestly. Period.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

One question that could be "said"

Why or why do you let your riders train with Allen Lim? (Landis statements, trainer to a certain rider on his big comeback etc.).

 

[Cobblestones]

Say something, JV.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

Omertà it is.

 

[Benotti69]

Omertà it is.

Pretty much, although it seems JV tries to imply he likes to play both sides of the fence when in reality he is omerta.

 

[hrotha]

JV, don't you think it's fundamentally unfair to let the likes of Landis and Hamilton be lynched publicly when you know they're telling the truth and you could help them massively by speaking out? Hamilton sacrificed an Olympic gold medal ffs.

If you guys miss this opportunity to take down Bruyneel, Ferrari, Armstrong and the UCI, I'll never forgive you.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

As I've said in statements galore over the past 2 yrs: Any and all questions from anti-doping authorities will be answered honestly. Period.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

Fair enough.

What are people expecting anyways? Vaughters rambling on twitter/cyclingnews the clinic what he might have told USADA? That would certainly weaken the case and give the accused inside knowledge. That wouldn't be a smart move.

 

[sniper]

to be fair, what could JV possibly say that would change the current course of events?
Unlike Landis and Tyler, JV probably knows nothing about UCI bribes.
JV could confirm doping at USPS, but UCI would continue to demand jurisdiction.

 

[roundabout]

Fair enough.

What are people expecting anyways? Vaughters rambling on twitter/cyclingnews the clinic what he might have told USADA? That would certainly weaken the case and give the accused inside knowledge. That wouldn't be a smart move.

Perhaps. Thing is, at the moment he seems to be letting Hamilton and Landis do the dirty work/be in the line of fire.

Maybe JV did tell what he knows and encouraged other people to do the same, but I do wonder whether other people actually made the first step.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Perhaps. Thing is, at the moment he seems to be letting Hamilton and Landis do the dirty work/be in the line of fire.

Maybe JV did tell what he knows and encouraged other people to do the same, but I do wonder whether other people actually made the first step.

Thing is, Landis et Hamilton were big time boys, winning big, falling deep. Part of the inner ring at LA's train.

How long was Vaughters at LA's train and was he part of the confidentials?

Big difference imho.

And I've got lots of respect for Landis and Hamilton for their coming clean, as a result of their breaking the omerta they a fair game, to withstand that takes a lot of cojones.

 

[Cloxxki]

to be fair, what could JV possibly say that would change the current course of events?
Unlike Landis and Tyler, JV probably knows nothing about UCI bribes.
JV could confirm doping at USPS, but UCI would continue to demand jurisdiction.

If you can't speak out on what you know, yet are outspoken about cleanliness, you're a hypocrit in my book.
JV is part of the problem. It is his choice to be. His riders are winning GC's in a very dirty sport with a most accomodating world federation run by a dressed up primate.
JV passively threw Floyd and Tyler under the bus, by keeping his mouth shut. Being self serving, delaying his out own day of judgement. Letting mor and more of his own indiscretions expire first. There is no honor in that anymore than Riis admitting to the obvious.

 

[veganrob]

I try to remember that all this is being fought in the court of public opinion right now and we don't really know all that is going on behind closed doors. Some do seem privy to more information, RR, and that does keep my hopes up.
Will JV come through in the end with and blow Lance and all his minions to hell. I hope so. Just gotta wait and hope.

 

[roundabout]

Thing is, Landis et Hamilton were big time boys, winning big, falling deep. Part of the inner ring at LA's train.

How long was Vaughters at LA's train and was he part of the confidentials?

Big difference imho.

And I've got lots of respect for Landis and Hamilton for their coming clean, as a result of their breaking the omerta they a fair game, to withstand that takes a lot of cojones.

Yes, but I am still thinking that any extra evidence/testimony of doping under Bruyneel would at least help Landis and Hamilton in the eyes of the public. Not to mention at least publicly voicing support.

I hope I am very much wrong, but I see Vaughters as a pragmatist, who is unwilling to risk any damage to cycling's image. Possibly 5 or 10 years from now there will still be dodgy doctors, but we will be told how they have reformed together with the sport, and how UCI despite possible conflicts of interest is still the authority on what is doping instead of more independent experts.

 

[ExRower]

I think JV will be able to talk openly once the whole Lance USADA thing is over. Thenfight against doping has nothing to gain if the likes of JV show their cards this early by posting what they know on a cyclingnforum.

 

[hrotha]

I think JV will be able to talk openly once the whole Lance USADA thing is over. Thenfight against doping has nothing to gain if the likes of JV show their cards this early by posting what they know on a cyclingnforum.

Well he just showed up here to tell us he wasn't going to say ******-all.

 

[roundabout]

I don't really want to see JV post here or PM D) me the details of his doping.

What I would want is to have more confidence that it's not just Hamilton and Landis doing the heavy lifting with St Vaughters of Argyle riding their coattails.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I don't really want to see JV post here or PM D) me the details of his doping.

What I would want is to have more confidence that it's not just Hamilton and Landis doing the heavy lifting with St Vaughters of Argyle riding their coattails.

Oh, that's good.

 

[JRTinMA]

Omertà it is.

Its omertà because he doesn't come clean to this group? Get a grip.

 

[sniper]

If you can't speak out on what you know, yet are outspoken about cleanliness, you're a hypocrit in my book.
JV is part of the problem. It is his choice to be. His riders are winning GC's in a very dirty sport with a most accomodating world federation run by a dressed up primate.
JV passively threw Floyd and Tyler under the bus, by keeping his mouth shut. Being self serving, delaying his out own day of judgement. Letting mor and more of his own indiscretions expire first. There is no honor in that anymore than Riis admitting to the obvious.

I realize all that and agree, JV should speak up, if only for the sake of fair play.
but the concrete question remains: is there something he could say that would influence or change the current legal surplace between USADA - LA/UCI?

 

[Neworld]

Relax, kiddos. I am certain any action(or lack of) I take won't be met with approval from this group.

As I've said in statements galore over the past 2 yrs: Any and all questions from anti-doping authorities will be answered honestly. Period.

Not a whole lot more to be said.

I waited a while to write this...to tone it down a bit.

I read the ... http://www.scribd.com/doc/56420890/Drugs-Vaughters ... article and my first thought was how is that different from most other athletes or intellectual professionals? *** I know what sacrifices I made before I was 34 leaving me with 200K in debt and just starting my life, and all the other issues listed in JV article. Anyway...it basically boils down to being committed to something and making sacrifices to be as good as you can. Then one has to deal with being ethical. Is that so hard? Wow, everyone can take the fast track to success, not just in bloody bike racing; shocker.

Despite JV calling the readers here 'kiddos' (which made me think 'really'? settle down little JV you may be out of your weight class), I do believe that making a change, dealing with a powerful sociopath like d1ckwadLance, and knowing what to say when...JV is probably doing the best he can. It has taken this long to bring JB, LA et al... to a point where something will happen, another several months are nothing in the grand scheme of things.

It'll all come out in the wash and it will only matter who wins the war...they write the history books.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I realize all that and agree, JV should speak up, if only for the sake of fair play.
but the concrete question remains: is there something he could say that would influence or change the current legal surplace between USADA - LA/UCI?

My opinion is that now would be the wrong time to make any admission. It could have the potential to jeopardize the USADA case. My view has always been that as long as he has been honest with USADA, Feds etc then thats all fine with me.

Which brings us back to why make any comment in public at all - i don't get the dangling of snippets of information on twitter or here and then complaining when people discuss it.

 

[Berzin]

I think JV will be able to talk openly once the whole Lance USADA thing is over.

By then it will be too late, and it won't make any difference.

Even then, I see Vaughters making some vague, cryptic comment like Jan Ullrich did when he was finally free to speak and said absolutely nothing.

Five hundred cowards all scared of the same one bully-must be nice to be Lance Armstrong right about now, regardless of what may or may not be awaiting him down the road.

Too bad for Landis and Hamilton-their disgrace knows no bounds, yet all Vaughters wants to do is consolidate his position and change cycling "from the inside".

There have been American mafia bosses and Colombian narco-traffickers who have engendered less fear in their troops than Armstrong. Maybe it's the lycra that brings out the beyotch in grown men.