JV talks, sort of

[the asian]

Great piece by JV

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jo...e-armstrong-and-heres-how-we-can-fight-doping

He hit it on the head. Remove the UCI from Anti-doping and fund it properly

Lance Armstrong approves.


The article was good though, however his solution has been put forward by several others too, yet we can't see much pressure put on UCI to hand over testing to an independent body.

 

[skippy]

Great piece by JV

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jo...e-armstrong-and-heres-how-we-can-fight-doping

He hit it on the head. Remove the UCI from Anti-doping and fund it properly

My comment to the article , WHICH the Mods decide is not worth printing :


Pleased to see JV , " OWNING the PROBLEM "! Amazed to see Roger L. talking through his hat about suing anyone for coping his example ! MPCC , seems to be composed of nothing other than " The ole boys club " , intent on deflecting blame foe their continuing inability to look at themselves in the mirror !

10% of a Team's budget , protecting the Health of the Athletes , is not a heavy price to pay , if it encourages more Sponsorship ! Separating " Doping Control from UCI , has been called on for some time ! Why does the " Fox get to guard the Chicken shed "?

Currently we have a Sport , where ANY Outsider , thinks ALL Racers are PIED users . Shamateurs can choose to use these products but WE , the Public , have to believe that Sport can be clean , otherwise we can go to the Movies and see better entertainment !

Whilst the aigle tag team duo , are allowed by the UCI Delegates on the Executive Committee , to stay in Office , little will change ! Write your Country Delegate , Display your disgust that they do not ACT , to remove the Stain on their character , that is so apparent to ALL !

The following are NOT ALL squeeky clean , but that is the risk we will have to accept for present :

Mike Plant membership@usacycling.org usa

Attn Hee Wook Cho cycling@sports.or.kr korea

Attn Renato Di Rocco Presdenza@federciclismo.it italy

Artur Lopes geral@uvp-fpc.pt portugal

Mohamed Wagih Azzam Egypt_cycling@hotmail.com egypt

Daniel Baal dbaal.cycling@ymail.com france

Jose Manuel Pelaez panaci@enet,cu cuba

Sheik FaisalBin Humaid Al Qassimi info@uaecf.ae uae

brian cookson info@britishcycling.org.uk uk

david Lappartient presidency@ffc.fr france

Mohamed Jamel Louafi ftc@planet.tn tunisia

igor Makarov cycling@roc.ru russia

Peder Pedersen dcu@dcu-cykling.dk denmark

NOTHING VENTURED , nothing GAINED !

Thanks to JV's admissions , the Sport of Cycling has to ACT !

Of course i could hsave added the Petitions as well ! Seems like they have an agenda ?

 

[DominicDecoco]

My comment to the article , WHICH the Mods decide is not worth printing :


Pleased to see JV , " OWNING the PROBLEM "! Amazed to see Roger L. talking through his hat about suing anyone for coping his example ! MPCC , seems to be composed of nothing other than " The ole boys club " , intent on deflecting blame foe their continuing inability to look at themselves in the mirror !

10% of a Team's budget , protecting the Health of the Athletes , is not a heavy price to pay , if it encourages more Sponsorship ! Separating " Doping Control from UCI , has been called on for some time ! Why does the " Fox get to guard the Chicken shed "?

Currently we have a Sport , where ANY Outsider , thinks ALL Racers are PIED users . Shamateurs can choose to use these products but WE , the Public , have to believe that Sport can be clean , otherwise we can go to the Movies and see better entertainment !

Whilst the aigle tag team duo , are allowed by the UCI Delegates on the Executive Committee , to stay in Office , little will change ! Write your Country Delegate , Display your disgust that they do not ACT , to remove the Stain on their character , that is so apparent to ALL !

The following are NOT ALL squeeky clean , but that is the risk we will have to accept for present :

Mike Plant membership@usacycling.org usa

Attn Hee Wook Cho cycling@sports.or.kr korea

Attn Renato Di Rocco Presdenza@federciclismo.it italy

Artur Lopes geral@uvp-fpc.pt portugal

Mohamed Wagih Azzam Egypt_cycling@hotmail.com egypt

Daniel Baal dbaal.cycling@ymail.com france

Jose Manuel Pelaez panaci@enet,cu cuba

Sheik FaisalBin Humaid Al Qassimi info@uaecf.ae uae

brian cookson info@britishcycling.org.uk uk

david Lappartient presidency@ffc.fr france

Mohamed Jamel Louafi ftc@planet.tn tunisia

igor Makarov cycling@roc.ru russia

Peder Pedersen dcu@dcu-cykling.dk denmark

NOTHING VENTURED , nothing GAINED !

Thanks to JV's admissions , the Sport of Cycling has to ACT !

Of course i could hsave added the Petitions as well ! Seems like they have an agenda ?

Didn't get a word of that.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Do you believe Rasmussen when he says it was sloppy paperwork or was he avoiding the vampires to avoid a positive?

If Ramussen really doped, he would be considered the worst athlete on doping in the history of sport.

He's lazy and unintelligent but that's about it.

 

[Magnus]

Do you believe Rasmussen when he says it was sloppy paperwork or was he avoiding the vampires to avoid a positive?

If he was avoiding testing then why did he go to the Berlin six-days?

 

[the asian]

Missing controls=doping

Obviously professional can't make any mistakes such as missing doping controls.

Anyway why did Rasmussen get a backdated 18 month ban and Offredo a one month ban?

Both were banned for missing three doping control tests,

 

[Dr. Maserati]

About the "great piece." I disagree completely. Too many words by the guy.

He could have said it all with your second sentence which I agree with 100%.

I read the piece and after all that has gone before it just made me tired.

And I'm not blaming him either. He's just too warped by the culture and I'm a little annoyed that I had to sit through his "evolution" to reach your second sentence which was clear as day, FROM THE BEGINNING.

JV didn't evolve - of course the conclusion was obvious but it could not be implemented while so many were in denial.

To us Lance is just a doper - but to the outside he was held as the shining beacon, until that lie was exposed there would never be any reason for change.

But for some reason, he's on the inside, and it was thought change could come from the inside so we had to listen to justifications and legalisms...

Tyler evolved, Floyd evolved, I even suspect Lance will evolve. But this whole idea, that we had to go through JV and people like him, that he was being "strategic" and was being "tactical" is why we find ourselves where we are.

The answers are very simple, and it always leads back to the Truth. It's obvious but people always find the need to argue that inarguable fact.

Lou Mannheim: Man looks in the abyss, there's nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss.

It was and always will be a character issue. JV is human, we all are. The problem arises because JV like LA think they are bigger than others and want to be in control of "outcomes."

We still see it with his need to "correct" people on here all the time. Yeah he's right on just about everything, but he was very wrong on the big picture.

And whether likes that or not it's the character issue.

And who was his post addressing? The insiders.
Because whether you like it or not, it will take them to implement any changes.
The magic moral police are not going to take over Aigle - it requires a collective effort from those who hold key positions within the sport.

As JV pointed out they are too involved in the blame game when they should be acknowledging their own roles and getting on with trying to implement solutions, and that will require a lot of them handing over power.

 

[sniper]

JV didn't evolve - of course the conclusion was obvious but it could not be implemented while so many were in denial.

To us Lance is just a doper - but to the outside he was held as the shining beacon, until that lie was exposed there would never be any reason for change.


And who was his post addressing? The insiders.
Because whether you like it or not, it will take them to implement any changes.
The magic moral police are not going to take over Aigle - it requires a collective effort from those who hold key positions within the sport.

As JV pointed out they are too involved in the blame game when they should be acknowledging their own roles and getting on with trying to implement solutions, and that will require a lot of them handing over power.

What's that with the blame game? Is Tygart and WADA too much involved in the blame game? Should CCN stop asking for Pat's resignation? Is CCN too involved in the blame game?

JV's claims of cleaner cycling is based largely on the BP. The UCI made a mess of the BP, yet JV stays silent on that.
Of course there should be a collective effort, a collective effort to get rid of the UCI that is.

It's not a bad piece from JV. He's obviously smarter than any of the other DSs in the game. But imo he's way too mild on the UCI.
Understandable from his position, but there's room for improvement there!

Get rid of Pat if only to restore the credibility of the game!
What's Garmin got to loose with that? (honest question)

 

[Mr.38%]

JV, in order to enforce punishments for serious violations, what's your opinion on team penalties and fines? Kind of omertà reversed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What's that with the blame game? Is Tygart and WADA too much involved in the blame game? Should CCN stop asking for Pat's resignation? Is CCN too involved in the blame game?

They are not part of the blame game, as they are not on the inside.

Their pressure helps, it puts the spotlight on the issues.
But despite all their protestations Pat is still there, Hein is still there. The MPCC in their wisdom decide to sue Armstrong.
I will write this slowly for you, it will actually take the insiders to put in place what those outside can see are the logical steps.

JV's claims of cleaner cycling is based largely on the BP. The UCI made a mess of the BP, yet JV stays silent on that.
Of course there should be a collective effort, a collective effort to get rid of the UCI that is.

But with JV it's crickets all over the place, once again.
Understandable from his perspective, but slightly disappointing in light of his alleged dedication to anti-doping.

JVs point went right over head.
You want to get rid of the UCI, sounds cool. So who will regulate the sport? Or will people just be allowed turn up to races on any type of bike, girls and boys, cat 3s lining up at the Tour?

Maybe, what is needed is the regularity body to have nothing to do with Anti-doping, now somewhere in your head you may realize that you read somewhere todays a rant form someone saying just that.

 

[hektoren]

Or JV could just f off. Realize that the thrill of having a guy in the lead group is not a place where he actually has a place and belong anymore. That he finally admits guilt for stealing money from competitors and owns up to it. That he is able to see that cycling as a sport is better off with clean shirts running the show in the long run. For the good of cycling. Realizing that the LA case was a watershed moment and he didn't contribute one iota towards its coming until he had to to evade a jail-term. Realizing that cycling fans just about have had it with his smug comfortability within a covert world as opposed to the fresh, open discourse we're almost able to fathom in front of us.

 

[JV1973]

Or JV could just f off. Realize that the thrill of having a guy in the lead group is not a place where he actually has a place and belong anymore. That he finally admits guilt for stealing money from competitors and owns up to it. That he is able to see that cycling as a sport is better off with clean shirts running the show in the long run. For the good of cycling. Realizing that the LA case was a watershed moment and he didn't contribute one iota towards its coming until he had to to evade a jail-term. Realizing that cycling fans just about have had it with his smug comfortability within a covert world as opposed to the fresh, open discourse we're almost able to fathom in front of us.

You might want to ask Travis Tygart, Jeff Novitsky, and David Howman about your misinformed claim of "last minute" helping to evade a jail term.

Get your fact straight before writing blather. (is that a word?)

As for the rest of the comments, thanks for the support.

 

[JV1973]

What's that with the blame game? Is Tygart and WADA too much involved in the blame game? Should CCN stop asking for Pat's resignation? Is CCN too involved in the blame game?

JV's claims of cleaner cycling is based largely on the BP. The UCI made a mess of the BP, yet JV stays silent on that.
Of course there should be a collective effort, a collective effort to get rid of the UCI that is.

It's not a bad piece from JV. He's obviously smarter than any of the other DSs in the game. But imo he's way too mild on the UCI.
Understandable from his position, but there's room for improvement there!

Get rid of Pat if only to restore the credibility of the game!
What's Garmin got to loose with that? (honest question)

Sniper, you have got to be kidding me. I'm #1 on the UCI hit list. Those guys hate me. I just don't throw stupid comments around about them.

You should go find the minutes from CCP meetings.... it goes like this "Mr. Vaughters says blah blah blah blah!!." President McQuaid quickly disagrees with "grumble, grumble, grumble, GRUMBLE....NO!!!!!"


And that sums up the last 4 years of being AIGCP president.

 

[Froome19]

ou should go find the minutes from CCP meetings.... it goes like this "Mr. Vaughters says blah blah blah blah!!." President McQuaid quickly disagrees with "grumble, grumble, grumble, GRUMBLE....NO!!!!!"

Are those actually available?
Because if so I would give good money to listen to them

 

[The Hitch]

Are those actually available?
Because if so I would give good money to listen to them

JV said minutes, which means you would have to make do reading them

They are not available to lay folk though.

 

[hrotha]

JV, I think everybody (except for the UCI) will agree with you that antidoping should be done by an independent body without a conflict of interest. But what about the race organizer aspect of the UCI? Would you agree there's another conflict of interest when the UCI is organizing races and at the same time deciding how important each race is (giving them WT status, for example)? Would you say the UCI should stay the hell out of that business?

 

[the asian]

JV, what steps have you or AIGCP taken to pressurize the UCI in to giving up control of drug testing and set up an independent body.
Whom do you think UCI will listen to, the sponsors?, WADA?, the teams?

Also, do you still have any ambitions of forming some kind of breakaway league,
what do you think about Bakala's(OPQS co owner) World Series of Cycling proposal, and why on earth did you talk with Bruyneel regarding the breakaway league?

 

[JV1973]

JV, I think everybody (except for the UCI) will agree with you that antidoping should be done by an independent body without a conflict of interest. But what about the race organizer aspect of the UCI? Would you agree there's another conflict of interest when the UCI is organizing races and at the same time deciding how important each race is (giving them WT status, for example)? Would you say the UCI should stay the hell out of that business?

Yes. I agree. That would be in the minutes too.


man, imagine how ****ed the UCI would be if I posted CCP minutes here. I'm not doing it, but it makes me snicker a bit...

 

[JV1973]

JV, what steps have you or AIGCP taken to pressurize the UCI in to giving up control of drug testing and set up an independent body.
Whom do you think UCI will listen to, the sponsors?, WADA?, the teams?

Also, do you still have any ambitions of forming some kind of breakaway league,
what do you think about Bakala's(OPQS co owner) World Series of Cycling proposal, and why on earth did you talk with Bruyneel regarding the breakaway league?

This is the type of post that makes me think I should write a book.

I don't even know where to begin...

If you remember, the AIGCP was the first to suggest "offshoring" antidoping. In early october. The teams, if we had the balls to stick together, could easily do this, as we fund the whole damn thing. We could just say "we won't pay until this is done"... But, as so far? Lack of balls. the first hint of "you might lose your license if you do that, sends everyone scampering back.

You can call it a breakaway league, you can call it 'restructuring', whatever... I'm in favor of a system which empowers the athletes and teams enough to not have constant fear of the license monster. Or the wildcard monster (ASO)...

How will the decision making of the sport ever represent the actors of the sport (riders) if they live in constant fear. That has to change.

Johan? Johan was an elected board member of the AIGCP. I am the elected president of the AIGCP, for a few more days anyway. I have to represent all teams, not just the ones I like. Like him or not, he felt the UCI needed a more limited role. So do I. I can't disagree with him about everything. We both might like donuts too.

 

[hrotha]

Yes. I agree. That would be in the minutes too.


man, imagine how ****ed the UCI would be if I posted CCP minutes here. I'm not doing it, but it makes me snicker a bit...

Would you be in legal trouble if you posted them? Because if you wouldn't... come on... you know you want to...

 

[BroDeal]

This is the type of post that makes me think I should write a book.

I don't even know where to begin...

If you remember, the AIGCP was the first to suggest "offshoring" antidoping. In early october. The teams, if we had the balls to stick together, could easily do this, as we fund the whole damn thing. We could just say "we won't pay until this is done"... But, as so far? Lack of balls. the first hint of "you might lose your license if you do that, sends everyone scampering back.

You can call it a breakaway league, you can call it 'restructuring', whatever... I'm in favor of a system which empowers the athletes and teams enough to not have constant fear of the license monster. Or the wildcard monster (ASO)...

How will the decision making of the sport ever represent the actors of the sport (riders) if they live in constant fear. That has to change.

Johan? Johan was an elected board member of the AIGCP. I am the elected president of the AIGCP, for a few more days anyway. I have to represent all teams, not just the ones I like. Like him or not, he felt the UCI needed a more limited role. So do I. I can't disagree with him about everything. We both might like donuts too.

With the breakaway league now dead, there goes a cudgel that could have been used to force changes at the UCI. Now you are left herding cats. Any word on why the breakaway series was allowed to die? Couldn't it have been kept alive simply for leverage?

 

[Jeremiah]

JV didn't evolve - of course the conclusion was obvious but it could not be implemented while so many were in denial.

To us Lance is just a doper - but to the outside he was held as the shining beacon, until that lie was exposed there would never be any reason for change.


And who was his post addressing? The insiders.
Because whether you like it or not, it will take them to implement any changes.
The magic moral police are not going to take over Aigle - it requires a collective effort from those who hold key positions within the sport.

As JV pointed out they are too involved in the blame game when they should be acknowledging their own roles and getting on with trying to implement solutions, and that will require a lot of them handing over power.

Really? JV's position didn't evolve from the time of the SCA trial and the 2006 NYT article where he was anonymous to today?

I appreciate that you've given up on getting rid of McQuaid. Many haven't.

I don't know why you're arguing with me here. My opinion was that the article was terrible and the only thing meaningful was that the UCI should be removed from anti doping.

The rest was a waste of space.

 

[Jeremiah]

JV didn't evolve - of course the conclusion was obvious but it could not be implemented while so many were in denial.

To us Lance is just a doper - but to the outside he was held as the shining beacon, until that lie was exposed there would never be any reason for change.


And who was his post addressing? The insiders.
Because whether you like it or not, it will take them to implement any changes.
The magic moral police are not going to take over Aigle - it requires a collective effort from those who hold key positions within the sport.

As JV pointed out they are too involved in the blame game when they should be acknowledging their own roles and getting on with trying to implement solutions, and that will require a lot of them handing over power.

And he thinks he can make an appeal to those people? You've got to be kidding?

 

[JV1973]

With the breakaway league now dead, there goes a cudgel that could have been used to force changes at the UCI. Now you are left herding cats. Any word on why the breakaway series was allowed to die? Couldn't it have been kept alive simply for leverage?

Why is it dead? Because Pat said so? I'll bet on Bakala v Pat any day.

 

[V3R1T4S]

I think it's best to just take everything that Pat McQuaid says at face value and realize that the exact opposite is the most likely "truth."

McQuaid is a consummate anachronism, which is why it is impossible for him to lead cycling into a new era.