JV talks, sort of

[Froome19]

Sorry, but there's nothing enjoyable watching the Sky train motoring up the climbs, dropping GT winners. It looks ridiculous and far from clean.

JV, were you as annoyed as many of us at seeing team Sky cheat Talansky at Paris-Nice?

It's sad enough that JV pretends to be unaware of all the eyebroweraising stuff. My BS barometer is peaking.

JV, I don't think many of us have experienced anything close to what you said there, though I've had the same feeling hugging 50th wheel at the Cat 3 Tour of the Gila .

However, many cycling fans aren't satisfied knowing that cheating is less prevalent today. What we are seeing still has farcical elements. Sky are a joke, and although you defend Wiggins, cycling fans know what the guy really is.

the JV disclaimer after spouting what you know is BS.
What did they need Leinders for? You're really asking us to list all the dodgy stuff, results, staff-members, evasive answers, etc.? To pretend Sky doesn't stink. Wow. So it's all down to the budget, clever recruitment, marginal gains? A couple of Brits with hardly any tradition in cycling re-inventing the wheel? Head in the sand stuff.

Okay, I will file that under 'I take the fifth'. You are entitled to.

Cleaner cycling, we have a deal on that. No way in hell it is clean.Go and brush your teeth for a week.

I think if anyone thinks that Vaughters is going to say that he thinks Sky are doped to the gills, that person is mistaken.

You don't sh!t near the campfire.

Just hire a swimming coach. And no more wind tunnels. Froomebot doesn't do that stuff.

Also, remember WARM UP, WARM DOWN.

Pity you didn't know this stuff when you had Wiggins on your team, or he would have won the Tour back then.

I bet Talansky does.

Man, your Sky detector reallly works great. Since JV thinks they pay big, they can easily afford guys to post on forums......

JV has a connection to Sky in that he had Wiggins when Wiggins finished 3rd in 2009 TdF out of nowhere. Gruppetto to Podium.

Skybot454347a

Do they bring their own pillows...

All good points

Yes, but you'd be amazed at how few riders do. I'd say maybe 10% of the peloton cools down, while the rest just jump on the bus straight after the sprint. Cycling sometimes is so backwards it amazes me.

And one post which actually really astonishes me and makes a lot of sense tbh. This made reading all those other posts worthwhile

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Seriously? see above.

So it is backwards not to warm down? JV says so. I asked him why his riders didn't?

Why dont you let him answer?

He said they warm down. He did, yes.
Did he say they warm down every single time, every single race?
No

You want him address that? Really - WHY?
How many bikes were set up in Chieti? Answer that.

I don't often agree with MrsJM or sometimes Blackcat - mainly their tone, but they at least ask good, smart questions.
Yourself and sniper are like 2 kids who are allowed stay up late and sit at the adults table.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I would absolutely love to know how:

1. A previous nobody like Froome developed into a GT podium finisher overnight.
2. Why teams weren't jumping to sign this obvious "revelation" after his Vuelta podium.
3. Why Sky needed to sign Leinders.
4. Why Rogers is floundering after leaving Sky. Presumably he's learned those "marginal gains" secrets like warming down, wearing jackets, and such.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

And one post which actually really astonishes me and makes a lot of sense tbh. This made reading all those other posts worthwhile

You have such well documented postings on Velorooms, yet here, you seem to be lazy. We want to learn on Kerrison and bilharzia Froome19! And science of course.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes, but you'd be amazed at how few riders do. I'd say maybe 10% of the peloton cools down, while the rest just jump on the bus straight after the sprint. Cycling sometimes is so backwards it amazes me.

Missed this little beauty: how many times havce Sky religiously warming down been held up for sneering and ridicule here? Apparently it's insulting to the 'professionalism'of the other teams, that of course they warm down, been doing it since the 1980s, yet only about 10% of them actually do it? A beautiful moment for me, this, here in the clinic. A moment of affirmation almost.

Not sure that was the answer Hrotha was expecting

 

[Benotti69]

He said they warm down. He did, yes.
Did he say they warm down every single time, every single race?
No

You want him address that? Really - WHY?
How many bikes were set up in Chieti? Answer that.

Why not?

No bikes set up. No I wasnt surprised. But there were no tv cameras around the buses.

If a warm down is important and makes a difference then i would expect to see it. I asked a simple question of JV, he is ignoring it, but why are you persisiting and persisiting like a dog with a new bone about it.

The warm down is cited as so important. I didn't see it. I asked.

Keep making the personal attacks. If it bothers you put me on ignore or does the adolescent in you who hates to lose prevent you.

 

[Benotti69]

Missed this little beauty: how many times havce Sky religiously warming down been held up for sneering and ridicule here? Apparently it's insulting to the 'professionalism'of the other teams, that of course they warm down, been doing it since the 1980s, yet only about 10% of them actually do it? A beautiful moment for me, this, here in the clinic. A moment of affirmation almost.

Not sure that was the answer Hrotha was expecting

Sky didn't warm down at T-A after the Chieti stage 2012 before the next stage.

They must have lost their religion that day.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sky didn't warm down at T-A after the Chieti stage 2012 before the next stage.

They must have lost their religion that day.

I can't comment because I know not either way, but warm downs have been one of those snippets Sky have used to illustrate the marginal gains guff that has been repeatedly seized upon as a fallacious statement, that cyclists and sportsmen have been doing it for years, that it's insulting to other teams and riders to suggest they invented it, or were the first to start doing it, and yet here JV just affirms what was said and wipes away so much of the sneering. Chapeau.

 

[blackcat]

I prefer the wet stage

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why not?

No bikes set up. No I wasnt surprised. But there were no tv cameras around the buses.

If a warm down is important and makes a difference then i would expect to see it. I asked a simple question of JV, he is ignoring it, but why are you persisiting and persisiting like a dog with a new bone about it.

The warm down is cited as so important. I didn't see it. I asked.

JVs not here, so he is not ignoring it - more straw.

But, he should ignore it. It is a simple question, with simple answers - yet you want to waste his time addressing it? Why?

And it's a dumb question - completely meaningless. You're only interested in gotcha stuff and even then failing.

Keep making the personal attacks. If it bothers you put me on ignore or does the adolescent in you who hates to lose prevent you.

Nice try - I have no intention of ignoring you, none.
If you don't want me correcting your drivel, then write something intelligent.

 

[sniper]

JVs not here, so he is not ignoring it - more straw.

But, he should ignore it. It is a simple question, with simple answers - yet you want to waste his time addressing it? Why?

And it's a dumb question - completely meaningless. You're only interested in gotcha stuff and even then failing.


Nice try - I have no intention of ignoring you, none.
If you don't want me correcting your drivel, then write something intelligent.

telling you need the personal attacks for that.
correct drivel all you want. keep the personal attacks for your roommate.

 

[hrotha]

Missed this little beauty: how many times havce Sky religiously warming down been held up for sneering and ridicule here? Apparently it's insulting to the 'professionalism'of the other teams, that of course they warm down, been doing it since the 1980s, yet only about 10% of them actually do it? A beautiful moment for me, this, here in the clinic. A moment of affirmation almost.

Not sure that was the answer Hrotha was expecting

I wasn't expecting any particular response, really, because the point of my post was something that I knew JV couldn't tackle here (hence why I used an emoticon and turned it into a joke), and that's why he only addressed a superficial part of it. The essential part was not whether people warm down or not (I also mentioned being professionals in general, and I didn't include training at altitude because I didn't want to make my post too long), but whether it mattered much and whether Sky are right to claim they have invented the wheel. Turns out Garmin warm down (in general), but they're still soundly beaten by Sky. And no, JV - I don't believe the base talent of your team is lower, and I don't buy the "bigger budget" theory, because it applies to signings like Urán, Henao or Cavendish, or to renewing Froome's contract, but it doesn't explain Froome, Porte and Rogers.

 

[sniper]

...
Yourself and sniper are like 2 kids who are allowed stay up late and sit at the adults table.

indeed one is left wondering what keeps you from making use of the I-button.
oh well.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

sad you need the personal attacks for that.
correct drivel all you want. keep the personal attacks for your roommate.

Not the most intelligent thing to pretend to be displeased at something personal by making a personal comment. Kinda shows you up.

I don't actually like pointing out your constant mistakes - but we have someone on the inside here, willing to talk and address things. And you & Benotti can only muster some irrelevant nonsense.
I consider both of you do more harm in your personal gotcha attempts at muddying the debate then anything JV has said (here & everywhere).
Let people decide of JV is being genuine or honest on what he says - not digging up something about warming down or a picking some exchange out of context from twitter ages ago.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

indeed one is left wondering what keeps you from making use of the I-button.
oh well.

Hey I will make a deal with you right here, right now.

You don't post things that are factually incorrect, that show obvious bias, that are taken out of context and start linking to quotes - and I will happily sit back and not respond to your post. Real simple.

 

[sniper]

Not the most intelligent thing to pretend to be displeased at something personal by making a personal comment. Kinda shows you up.

I don't actually like pointing out your constant mistakes - but we have someone on the inside here, willing to talk and address things. And you & Benotti can only muster some irrelevant nonsense.
I consider both of you do more harm in your personal gotcha attempts at muddying the debate then anything JV has said (here & everywhere).
Let people decide of JV is being genuine or honest on what he says - not digging up something about warming down or a picking some exchange out of context from twitter ages ago.

The last coupla times JV showed up here was when I posted in one of his threads.

Is it an attention thing? Lack of, i mean?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I wasn't expecting any particular response, really, because the point of my post was something that I knew JV couldn't tackle here (hence why I used an emoticon and turned it into a joke), and that's why he only addressed a superficial part of it. The essential part was not whether people warm down or not (I also mentioned being professionals in general, and I didn't include training at altitude because I didn't want to make my post too long), but whether it mattered much and whether Sky are right to claim they have invented the wheel. Turns out Garmin warm down (in general), but they're still soundly beaten by Sky. And no, JV - I don't believe the base talent of your team is lower, and I don't buy the "bigger budget" theory, because it applies to signings like Urán, Henao or Cavendish, or to renewing Froome's contract, but it doesn't explain Froome, Porte and Rogers.

I'm guessing since he described cycling as being 'backwards' for not doing it more he clearly believes it matters.

The last bit is directed at JV of course but I agree it is a salient point. However he was illuminating when discussing Froome and how much he wanted to sign him for Garmin, because he had a huge engine and good numbers but poor recovery due to the blood parasites. Sky were ready to jettison him and JV was waiting with a chequebook. I guess you'll read into that what you will.

 

[dolophonic]

Yes Jimmy Fingers but as you said you are guessing.. what is not a guess is that there is a disconnect between clean racing and one team dominating all year .. ala SKY
JV has pretty much said all he can say and the blank gaps are pretty evident.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes Jimmy Fingers but as you said you are guessing.. what is not a guess is that there is a disconnect between clean racing and one team dominating all year .. ala SKY
JV has pretty much said all he can say and the blank gaps are pretty evident.

Slow your roll, it's March

And I saw nothing coded from JV when he says he believes Sky are clean. Again and again.

 

[will10]

Slow your roll, it's March

And I saw nothing coded from JV when he says he believes Sky are clean. Again and again.

Sky didn't dominate last season?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The last coupla times JV showed up here was when I posted in one of his threads.

Is it an attention thing? Lack of, i mean?

JV could post here twice a year and you could link it to something you said, because it doesnt matter what thread it is but you manage to talk about JV somewhere.

And there had been no activity here for days until you posted the "beating about the bush" guff.

So, ya -JV definitely stalking you

 

[the sceptic]

Sky didn't dominate last season?

Yes, but now that Vaughters has taught his riders to warm down and bring their own pillow the domination will be over

 

[sniper]

JV could post here twice a year and you could link it to something you said, because it doesnt matter what thread it is but you manage to talk about JV somewhere.

And there had been no activity here for days until you posted the "beating about the bush" guff.

So, ya -JV definitely stalking you

I just meant to say that apparently he doesn't mind a good quarrel.
And lately he's also done without personal attacks. Too bad you still take recourse to that.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sky didn't dominate last season?

Who won more races, Sky or OPQS?

Dominate is an extreme blanket term for a very long, nuanced season. People are even saying they dominated this year's T-A when they dominated one stage. In fact they dominated one 14k climb.

Sky were the strongest team in the stage races, although they failed to podium in two of the GTs. OPQS were strongest in the one-day races. Rodriguez was the highest ranked rider, Sky the highest ranked team. Also note 15 of their wins came from one sprinter, not GC riders.

People use 'dominate' because it's an emotive term,and creates a simplistic re-writing of a complex milieu. If you are going to tell me Sky 'dominated' the season, you need to be careful how you define domination relative to bicycle racing.

 

[webvan]

This thread is a heartbreak...the privilege of talking with the articulate GM of a Pro Tour team and the desperation of reading posts by clinicians on an anti-Sky crusade, just because they happen to have the biggest budget and can afford the better riders in numbers and as a result win many races...like La Vie Claire in '85/'86 but obviously these same people were not following cycling at that time or care to research what they didn't experience first hand...