• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

Kevin Livingston and Conconi in 1993

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 18, 2009
13,318
0
0
There is the phone call between LeMond and the Oakley rep where they joke about what effect all the drugs might have on Hincapie's children...

I really don't see how anyone can think that the riders on Armstrong's Tour squad from 1999-2005 were not on a program. Armstrong insisting that everyone on the 1995 Motorola TdF squad should take EPO opens a large window on what prep he thinks a Tour squad should do. Look at the massive decrease in performance the whole team suffered in 2006. The team suddenly became a joke in the aftermath of OP, almost as if someone panicked and got rid of stored blood when they heard that Dr. Fuentes network had been rolled up. The riders had a hard time climbing a speed bump during that tour.
 
Apr 13, 2010
1,199
0
0
I Watch Cycling In July said:
All the guy said is he hasn't formed an opinion on Hincapie yet and wanted to know if there was any more info available. That's hardly a doping apologists demand for proof which could stand up in court. Overreact much?
Thank you!
 
Apr 13, 2010
1,199
0
0
BroDeal said:
There is the phone call between LeMond and the Oakley rep where they joke about what effect all the drugs might have on Hincapie's children...
Right... Is that the woman who also overheard the hospital conversation or is this another phone call? Man, I listened through the loooong 45 mins or however long it was and must admit I don't remember the whole thing :)

Thanks...
 
May 6, 2009
8,314
0
0
buckwheat said:
Hincapie wasn't doped at Discovery? Or, do you abstain citing lack of evidence?:rolleyes:

George really is such a nice guy. With a doped LA and the rest, RH, TB, FL, TH, KL, et. al, getting all the credit.

Wow, Hincapie's amazing that he can keep up and even win a mountain stage clean. The dopers stole his whole career.

Imagine he'd be a legend if he wasn't content to carry LA's bags and do his laundry.
You are pushing your opinion across as fact that Hincapie doped. I would say in my own opinion, yeah, he was on the program at USPS/Discovery since he and Armstrong are very good friends, except I'm stating at as my opinion, you are pushing it across as 100% fact.

BroDeal said:
There is the phone call between LeMond and the Oakley rep where they joke about what effect all the drugs might have on Hincapie's children...

I really don't see how anyone can think that the riders on Armstrong's Tour squad from 1999-2005 were not on a program. Armstrong insisting that everyone on the 1995 Motorola TdF squad should take EPO opens a large window on what prep he thinks a Tour squad should do. Look at the massive decrease in performance the whole team suffered in 2006. The team suddenly became a joke in the aftermath of OP, almost as if someone panicked and got rid of stored blood when they heard that Dr. Fuentes network had been rolled up. The riders had a hard time climbing a speed bump during that tour.
Savoldelli must of had a pretty good program set up by Ferrari (or was he a Cecchini client?) for the 2005 Giro considering how he won with such a B team. Basso must of had a problem with his program somewhere so that he would get sick, and then bounce back and win two stages, including a TT FFS.
 
Sep 24, 2009
1,851
0
0
craig1985 said:
You are pushing your opinion across as fact that Hincapie doped. I would say in my own opinion, yeah, he was on the program at USPS/Discovery since he and Armstrong are very good friends, except I'm stating at as my opinion, you are pushing it across as 100% fact.
Let's empty out the prisons because there is no way anyone could be convicted by your standard of guilt.

Jeez, even the law recognizes "beyond a reasonable doubt," not beyond all doubt, which would meet your 100% gold standard.

IYO, did Lance dope? 100%, 99 and 44/100ths % Ivory Snow guilty? Don't worry, Tim Herman won't be hunting you down here.

Wow, you're 100% certain that doubt about these dopers never enters my mind! Maybe this is all a dream! Maybe I'm living in an American cyclist hating alternative reality! Another Universe? Can I be 100% certain I'm not?

We all should have such selfless friends as George. No ambition whatsoever. He so loves LA that he will sacrifice his entire clean career in order for LA to get the Lion's share of the accolades. What a wonderful human!

Hey, you do realize that all of Newton's physical laws are wrong and yet classical mechanics is still taught in High school as if it is the gospel. They aren't 100% fact. Of course they're right (close enough) almost all the time, except in situations close to the speed of light.

Oh, BTW, George doped, bet on it!
 
May 6, 2009
8,314
0
0
buckwheat said:
Let's empty out the prisons because there is no way anyone could be convicted by your standard of guilt.

Jeez, even the law recognizes "beyond a reasonable doubt," not beyond all doubt, which would meet your 100% gold standard.

IYO, did Lance dope? 100%, 99 and 44/100ths % Ivory Snow guilty? Don't worry, Tim Herman won't be hunting you down here.

Wow, you're 100% certain that doubt about these dopers never enters my mind! Maybe this is all a dream! Maybe I'm living in an American cyclist hating alternative reality! Another Universe? Can I be 100% certain I'm not?

We all should have such selfless friends as George. No ambition whatsoever. He so loves LA that he will sacrifice his entire clean career in order for LA to get the Lion's share of the accolades. What a wonderful human!

Hey, you do realize that all of Newton's physical laws are wrong and yet classical mechanics is still taught in High school as if it is the gospel. They aren't 100% fact. Of course they're right (close enough) almost all the time, except in situations close to the speed of light.

Oh, BTW, George doped, bet on it!
Nice try mate. I'm not ACF and I don't really care much for George Hincapie and BMC. I'm going to dispute with you that Lance doped, because I agree, he did, the positive tests for EPO after the '99 Tour.

And personally I believe Hincapie should of taken the Tom Boonen route and left USPS and he might have won P-R or RVV on a Belgian team.
 
Sep 24, 2009
1,851
0
0
craig1985 said:
Nice try mate. I'm not ACF

ACF?


craig1985 said:
I'm going to dispute with you that Lance doped, because I agree, he did, the positive tests for EPO after the '99 Tour. .
You meant "not dispute" here, correct?

Anyway, I guess we're in agreement. I just don't understand the insistence on the legal or technical/semantic niceties on an internet forum.

In the real world we live in, it's not going out on a limb to say that it's a "fact" than Hincapie has doped in the past and may still be doping. It's a fact as much as that any other perpetrator of a crime is guilty is a fact. Are there wrongful convictions? Certainly. This is just a case where the conviction in the court of public opinion is pretty sound.
 
Aug 10, 2009
43
0
0
Is there some way to get your hands on the conconi "epo file" ? The file with the results from the 23 "amateurs" :)
 
Jul 9, 2009
6,625
0
0
BroDeal said:
There is the phone call between LeMond and the Oakley rep where they joke about what effect all the drugs might have on Hincapie's children...

I really don't see how anyone can think that the riders on Armstrong's Tour squad from 1999-2005 were not on a program. Armstrong insisting that everyone on the 1995 Motorola TdF squad should take EPO opens a large window on what prep he thinks a Tour squad should do. Look at the massive decrease in performance the whole team suffered in 2006. The team suddenly became a joke in the aftermath of OP, almost as if someone panicked and got rid of stored blood when they heard that Dr. Fuentes network had been rolled up. The riders had a hard time climbing a speed bump during that tour.
Isn't it possible though that even if someone thinks that, he still might ask if there is more stuff that he might read on the subject? If only so that in his own mind he can go from suspecting it to being as damn sure as Buckwheat that it was that way.
This is BPC's legacy, that even asking a question results in people being jumped on, new posters and old alike.
As a famous (for a day) man once said, just before he passed out from crack intoxication, "can't we all just get along?".
 
Jul 29, 2010
429
0
0
BikeCentric said:
Regarding Livingston he was Lance's top climbing domestique at USPS for '99 and '00 then went to Telekom to work for Ulrich in either '01 or '02. Then Livingston abruptly retired shortly after.
Well, this was ORIGINALLY a thread regarding KL, so if anyone cares...

My recollection is: KL left Postal to go be team leader at Linda McCartney -- which was the team of the vegetarian food company by the same name. (The McCartney riders had to take an oath of vegatarianism.) KL was going to be their GC rider; the team had ridden the Giro and was hopeful for a Tour invite in the upcoming season. At the time, Armstrong was quite unhappy about Livingston's departure (as he always was when a lieutenant left).

After KL signed, the McCartney team folded abruptly. He was left w/o a ride for the upcoming season, and was picked up by Telekom (probably at a bargain price). Although it was not his intent to ride for Ullrich/Telekom, Lance vowed to never speak again to the guy, and apparently kept his word, saying something about "like going to work for the enemy", or somesuch nonsense...

KL then rode for Telekom for two yrs. This was when Telekom went through the phase of thinking they could hire Lance's former teammates (KL and Julich) and somehow crack Lance's 'mystique'...

After 2yrs, KL retired. My guess he had made enough money, and was sick of the doping required to ride at the top of the sport. I'm always guessing he saw McCartney as his one great chance to be a team leader, and it had gone by the wayside.

I remember reading cyclingnews at the time KL retired...LA being the fine/upstanding person he is, scoffed at the retirement of his former best buddy and simply said he "couldn't understand" why someone would leave the sport. (Manzano, anyone?)

Anyhoo, that's what I recall from memory. Interesting to note that KL now has a training/coaching gig at Mellow TubeSock's.
 
Jul 29, 2010
429
0
0
craig1985 said:
Personally I believe Hincapie should of taken the Tom Boonen route and left USPS and he might have won P-R or RVV on a Belgian team.
Yeah, but then again, it's nice to ride for the team that gets advance notice of the UCI's "surprise" doping controls.

I'm sure he was well-compensated by LA-la, and sharing the Tour winnings never hurt the wallet, either. Additionally, while at Postal/LA, he was never under any pressure to get results. (Which is a good thing, b/c Gent-Wevelgem by a nose hair doesn't really rank up there as a "monument" of cycling.)
 
Mar 4, 2010
1,354
0
0
No Indurain? Wasn't he supposed to be a Conconi client?

It was great that they showed the off-season and in-season hct's of the riders "coached" by these fellows...
 
Apr 13, 2010
1,199
0
0
Have made a screendump of the list of "amateurs" from the tv-program. Problem is I don't seem able to post images?? (It says in the bottom I "MAY NOT post attachments"). Help??

Anyway; Indurain is not on the list...

Will upload it as soon as I figure out how :)
 
May 26, 2010
19,530
0
0
NashbarShorts said:
Yeah, but then again, it's nice to ride for the team that gets advance notice of the UCI's "surprise" doping controls.

I'm sure he was well-compensated by LA-la, and sharing the Tour winnings never hurt the wallet, either. Additionally, while at Postal/LA, he was never under any pressure to get results. (Which is a good thing, b/c Gent-Wevelgem by a nose hair doesn't really rank up there as a "monument" of cycling.)
if tour winnings were shared? it was probably among the various chemists and alchemists for team programs...:rolleyes:
 
Aug 13, 2009
11,354
0
0
JPM London said:
Have made a screendump of the list of "amateurs" from the tv-program. Problem is I don't seem able to post images?? (It says in the bottom I "MAY NOT post attachments"). Help??

Anyway; Indurain is not on the list...

Will upload it as soon as I figure out how :)
Use tinypic.com
 
Apr 13, 2010
1,199
0
0
roundabout said:
wow, looks like Conconi was also responsible for a few Winter Olympic medals

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/news_print.php?newsid=3134

here's a bigger list of the clients at the bottom of the page
Yes, the 23 above are just the ones he used in his so called research for an EPO test - paid for by CONI. Far from a complete list of clients... The only amateur above is himself.

When it surfaced he had indeed not used amateurs, but competing pros for the "research" the CONI answered along the lines of "well, of course, you can't do this research using normal people like you and I". Forget the name of the guy who said it, but it was that semi-royal figure CONI pulled in to whitewash the whole Conconi scandal...
 
Jun 19, 2009
4,841
0
0
bobbins said:
He was at Motorola in 95, 96 and couldn't beat time with a stick. He can't have been on the program, if he was, it was no good!
Not everyone at Motorola was on a program and I think anyone that was handled it themself. That's where I heard comparisons of TT performances clean vs. program...and how some folks improved very suddenly.
 
Apr 13, 2010
1,199
0
0
roundabout said:
Heh, there's an article about Conconi climbing the Stelvio only about 2 minutes slower than Moser in 1994. The good professor had 57.1 hematocrit and 19.2 hemaglobin a couple of days before.

That's dedication.
Well, how else is he going to keep track of how Moser's doing? :)

Anyway - you have a link? Don't think I've come across that specific story before...
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS