Kimmage interviews Floyd Landis: Sunday Times + Bombshell NYVC transcript [merged]

[Granville57]

But something tells me he may not turn easily because despite believing 95% of his story I still found significant factual and ethical disconnects in it. Will elaborate if the thread moves that way...

By all means, python. Give this thread a nudge...

 

[mtb Dad]

Nice idea but who is going to do it? Who is going to reform the UCI? Where is the pressure and the impetus to reform going to come from?

It's easier than we might think. Most national federations have few voting delegates at annual meetings to elect the president. 20-30 people in Canada can change the president. Only 40-odd national federations vote for UCI president. Get 20- or 30 european and nor am countries to support a regime change, and you can change the whole sport.

You don't need any of the groups above. Just find the delegates, convince them to give their support. If necessary, find the people that vote for the voters. It's up to us, not someone else.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It's easier than we might think... It's up to us, not someone else.

Good post Mtb Dad. Someone should look up just who that is, and find ways to contact them, and pressure them. This could be a thread of it's own: How to overhaul the UCI.

 

[mad black]

No, he isn't. He continually attempts to obfuscate whatever constructive information that may be found in interviews like this by introducing the same old lines utilized to discredit Landis for years now.

Should the guy be given a medal? Hell no. In fact, I think he should be stripped of the other wins that year (Daupine and Tour of Cali) now that he has admitted to doping the entire 2006 season. He doped. We know that already.

If the French had any real interest in Floyd, for ANY real reason, there would be at least the tiniest hint from somewhere in the French press, especially in light of all the press Landis is getting lately. Curiously, there is none.

I sometimes wonder if Floyd were to come out post-career and do some free PSA's about suicide and mental health, solely as a way to honor his late father in law, if flicker or some other like-minded individual (read into that what you may) would be on here in hours saying "Yeah, but it's just Floyd coming out of the closet to ease his own demons" or some other such garbage.

Unfortunately for flicky, he's a modern day Don Quixote jousting windmills. He tries to discredit those he thinks have elevated Floyd to some hero state, when no such people exist.

1st bold:
FL has completely and utterly discredited himself. No lines necessary!

2nd bold:
I hate to break it to you mate but guys like you're elevating Floyd to some kind of hero. If not a hero a martyr at least. And in no way does he deserve to make money of that which he clearly does with interviews like that.

 

[python]

By all means, python. Give this thread a nudge...

factual:

‘i-did-not-take-testostrone’ story is less than clear and strange in light of his other admissions. too many details (as i know them) don’t connect. i could think of multiple valid explanations why exogenous testosterone metabolites (not necessarily testosterone itself as he claimed) were in his system without him having applied a patch or a cream.

ethical A:
still blaming the lab, cas and wada for extending his trial.

at best, this is half-true and he knows it well. he has to at least acknowledge his own responsibility for taking an inherently false claim that far and having his lawyers fight to ‘the last’. there are many well documented examples when his lawyers (just as obviously and flagrantly as valverde’s but much later) used every legal option under the sun to filibuster, extend and obfuscate the process. it's a fact.

ethical B: ‘I’d do it again the same way given the opportunity’ is honest, candid and soul-searching but hardly an ethical conclusion I’d personally reach given his circumstances.

still, as I said, I buy 95%of floyd’s story and just elaborating on the other 5%. wont say more b/c it can send further off-topic an already meandering thread.

 

[BroDeal]

It's easier than we might think. Most national federations have few voting delegates at annual meetings to elect the president. 20-30 people in Canada can change the president. Only 40-odd national federations vote for UCI president. Get 20- or 30 european and nor am countries to support a regime change, and you can change the whole sport.

You don't need any of the groups above. Just find the delegates, convince them to give their support. If necessary, find the people that vote for the voters. It's up to us, not someone else.

Dude, Max Mosley, former head of the FIA and son of Britain's most notorious fascist, was video recorded with five hookers as he acted out a sick concentration camp fantasy while speaking pidgin German. He won a vote of confidence and kept his job with the support of motor sport federations of non-European countries that undoubtedly owed him favors. If motor sport could not get rid of its head under those circumstances then what chance does cycling have?

 

[Topangarider]

2nd bold:
I hate to break it to you mate but guys like you're elevating Floyd to some kind of hero. If not a hero a martyr at least. And in no way does he deserve to make money of that which he clearly does with interviews like that.[/QUOTE]

To Mad Black -
There's no way Kimmage paid for that interview.

 

[TexPat]

Good post Mtb Dad. Someone should look up just who that is, and find ways to contact them, and pressure them. This could be a thread of it's own: How to overhaul the UCI.

Dammit, Alpe you're on to something. Where do we put this thread?
Let's compile the list of delegates and get rid of the ba57ards.
I'll visit the NZ reps personally.

 

[Sanitiser]

I care f**k all why he did it. He did it. If you read it, and his information doesn't ring true, you have what is called "denial." Research the term and get back to us.

What's this post supposed to mean?

 

[TexPat]

1st bold:
FL has completely and utterly discredited himself. No lines necessary!

2nd bold:
I hate to break it to you mate but guys like you're elevating Floyd to some kind of hero. If not a hero a martyr at least. And in no way does he deserve to make money of that which he clearly does with interviews like that.

Completely and utterly? So nothing he says is true?

As an aside, whenever someone uses the term, "mate" in this context it often means the opposite. This drives me crazy. Could you just leave it out, or be direct? FYI mate in American English is something dogs do. Just saying--not that we own the dominant idiom, but FFS don't misuse the term.
Mate.

 

[Sanitiser]

Good post Mtb Dad. Someone should look up just who that is, and find ways to contact them, and pressure them. This could be a thread of it's own: How to overhaul the UCI.

This is what needs to be done. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_Cricket

In the end it comes down to money for riders and sponsors. If the riders can imagine to get the sort of salaries NFL and NBA players get for being truly clean (huge carrot, huge stick) than you may have something.

 

[flicker]

No way Floyd tilts windmills, how dare you Macroadie compare him to anyone in a Cervantes, Miguel novel.
Floyd cunning yes, inteligent, yes. Doing anything for the common good, no way. Trying to stop peds, please.

He is out saving his own skin, punto, end of story.

The first I heard of him was the ToC 2006, I was there I was astounded that an American I heard nothing about could smoke that field.

Floyd, his calling is an attorney, he would be hella good at it.

The thing about Floyd is he cannot take back his words, any of them.

I read everything there is to know about the guy. All I really know is he loved doping, he loved the lifestyle and he got busted.

Follow a guy like that and you walk into a desert with no water....

 

[Elagabalus]

No way Floyd tilts windmills, how dare you Macroadie compare him to anyone in a Cervantes, Miguel novel.
Floyd cunning yes, inteligent, yes. Doing anything for the common good, no way. Trying to stop peds, please.

He is out saving his own skin, punto, end of story.

The first I heard of him was the ToC 2006, I was there I was astounded that an American I heard nothing about could smoke that field.

Floyd, his calling is an attorney, he would be hella good at it.

The thing about Floyd is he cannot take back his words, any of them.

I read everything there is to know about the guy. All I really know is he loved doping, he loved the lifestyle and he got busted.

Follow a guy like that and you walk into a desert with no water....

I had NO idea Floyd owned a Fiat Punto ...

 

[TexPat]

No way Floyd tilts windmills, how dare you Macroadie compare him to anyone in a Cervantes, Miguel novel.
Floyd cunning yes, inteligent, yes. Doing anything for the common good, no way. Trying to stop peds, please.

He is out saving his own skin, punto, end of story.

The first I heard of him was the ToC 2006, I was there I was astounded that an American I heard nothing about could smoke that field.

Floyd, his calling is an attorney, he would be hella good at it.

The thing about Floyd is he cannot take back his words, any of them.

I read everything there is to know about the guy. All I really know is he loved doping, he loved the lifestyle and he got busted.

Follow a guy like that and you walk into a desert with no water....

(Can't believe that I'm quoting Flicker)
The first bold is half true.
The second is pure ********.
Not bad.
He would make a horrible attorney! "I'll say no" is a dead freaking giveaway.
I'm with you on the Cervantes comparison. Poor way to treat an epic.

 

[Merckx index]

factual:

‘i-did-not-take-testostrone’ story is less than clear and strange in light of his other admissions. too many details (as i know them) don’t connect. i could think of multiple valid explanations why exogenous testosterone metabolites (not necessarily testosterone itself as he claimed) were in his system without him having applied a patch or a cream.

I don’t understand this statement at all. Are you saying that there could be non-doping explanations for the CIR data (other than Jack Daniels, diet, etc.)? If so, why were these possibilities never given serious consideration during the long discussion of Floyd’s case? Also, if this is the case, why is Floyd’s story “less than clear and strange”? And what do you mean by “testosterone itself as he claimed” when in fact he claimed he did not take testosterone?

Sorry if this is considered off topic (not by me, it isn't), but it seems very worthy of discussion.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Dude, Max Mosley, former head of the FIA and son of Britain's most notorious fascist, was video recorded with five hookers as he acted out a sick concentration camp fantasy while speaking pidgin German...

Yeah, but did he take any bribes from dopers?

Dammit, Alpe you're on to something. Where do we put this thread?

Anyone can start a thread. Just think about the content before you do so to help get the posts going in the right direction, that's all I ask.

 

[TexPat]

I don’t understand this statement at all. Are you saying that there could be non-doping explanations for the CIR data (other than Jack Daniels, diet, etc.)? If so, why were these possibilities never given serious consideration during the long discussion of Floyd’s case? Also, if this is the case, why is Floyd’s story “less than clear and strange”? And what do you mean by “testosterone itself as he claimed” when in fact he claimed he did not take testosterone?

Sorry if this is considered off topic (not by me, it isn't), but it seems very worthy of discussion.

Wouldn't the testosterone metabolites have remained in the previously drawn blood which in itself indicates a transfusion?

 

[mad black]

Completely and utterly? So nothing he says is true?

As an aside, whenever someone uses the term, "mate" in this context it often means the opposite. This drives me crazy. Could you just leave it out, or be direct? FYI mate in American English is something dogs do. Just saying--not that we own the dominant idiom, but FFS don't misuse the term.
Mate.

Yes, completely and utterly, DUDE, (hope that's more Americanized for you) since to discredit means "To harm the good reputation of a person; to cause an idea or piece of evidence to seem false or unreliable.".
There's certainly some truth in what he says the problem being you can't tell what is and what isn't after all the lies he's been living and - stretching that fact again - making money by doing so.

 

[frenchfry]

1st bold:
FL has completely and utterly discredited himself. No lines necessary!

2nd bold:
I hate to break it to you mate but guys like you're elevating Floyd to some kind of hero. If not a hero a martyr at least. And in no way does he deserve to make money of that which he clearly does with interviews like that.

Talking point: Floyd has no credibility
Talking point: he is doing this for the money

keep repeating

 

[webvan]

I don’t understand this statement at all. Are you saying that there could be non-doping explanations for the CIR data (other than Jack Daniels, diet, etc.)? If so, why were these possibilities never given serious consideration during the long discussion of Floyd’s case? Also, if this is the case, why is Floyd’s story “less than clear and strange”? And what do you mean by “testosterone itself as he claimed” when in fact he claimed he did not take testosterone?

Sorry if this is considered off topic (not by me, it isn't), but it seems very worthy of discussion.

I don't understand that either. The carbon isotope test found an 11:1 ratio and proof that the sample had exogenous testosterone, it's hard to imagine they got it completely wrong as explained in another thread (by Python I believe) the labs are super conservative and throw out most tests that would normally be considered a positive.

They only explanation not involving (his) doping is that the samples would have gotten switched...how likely is that? Then again why did the seven other tests turn in a negative...

 

[Ferminal]

1st bold:
FL has completely and utterly discredited himself. No lines necessary!

2nd bold:
I hate to break it to you mate but guys like you're elevating Floyd to some kind of hero. If not a hero a martyr at least. And in no way does he deserve to make money of that which he clearly does with interviews like that.

Do you have a source saying Floyd was paid by Kimmage/ST?

So far he hasn't been paid for any interviews since May. At least that's what I think.

 

[Sanitiser]

Talking point: Floyd has no credibility
Talking point: he is doing this for the money

keep repeating

There is an element of truth to both points.

He's probably not getting paid for the interviews but he is getting paid if Lance get's convicted.

 

[sartain]

There is an element of truth to both points.

He's probably not getting paid for the interviews but he is getting paid if Lance get's convicted.

And good for him, I say. It's high time someone else made some money off of this charade besides LA.

 

[sjonnie]

So Floyd spews a story to a sympathetic journalist about him being all sweet and innocent - just wanting to race, being forced into taking drugs and misled by 'cycling culture' and you just all swallow it hook-line-and-sinker?

Rather, the truth is Floyd realized he could not win on his talents alone and chose to dope to improve his chances. Nobody else enters into the equation, whatever he says, he is guilty, but he continues to not accept full responsibility and so this saga continues. Floyd would love you all to believe that he was the last person in the peleton to dope, but then he was one of the first to get an unfortunate positive. Oh how very inconvenient.

Whatever the 'truth', Floyd got caught doping, he chose to dope, it was his choice, his responsibility, his shame and the end of his career. I feel sorry for Floyd, I think he feels genuine shame for what he did, we all have personal responsibility for our actions, we can't blame other people or achieve absolution by pointing out that everybody else was wrong also. Maybe some people slipped though the net as appears very likely, but going back and trying to prove that the holes in the net were too large is a fool's game and not one that will ever make Floyd feel better about himself.

 

[dbrower]

Dude, Max Mosley, former head of the FIA and son of Britain's most notorious fascist, was video recorded with five hookers as he acted out a sick concentration camp fantasy while speaking pidgin German. He won a vote of confidence and kept his job with the support of motor sport federations of non-European countries that undoubtedly owed him favors. If motor sport could not get rid of its head under those circumstances then what chance does cycling have?

+ a bizzilion.


-dB