Kimmage unleashes hell, counter-sues Verbruggen & McQuaid

[Netserk]

And what should the next person think when you ask her to donate to another internet cause you've helped establish?

We now know that you are proud of this horribly administered fund that you recommended and helped set up.

Really?

And you know this for a fact?

 

[MarkvW]

Really?

And you know this for a fact?

Any fund where a partner has to demand--and file a lawsuit for--an accounting is a horribly managed fund. Any fund where the manager refuses to account for the moneys deposited to the beneficiary is a horribly managed fund.

That's just two things. Need more?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And what should the next person think when you ask her to donate to another internet cause you've helped establish?

We now know that you are proud of this horribly administered fund that you recommended and helped set up.

Poor Mark, I should set up a chip-in fund for you.

Surely you can answer your own question, care to explain how someone so righteous and perfect as yourself managed to contribute money to a horribly administered fund?

 

[thirteen]

Any fund where a partner has to demand--and file a lawsuit for--an accounting is a horribly managed fund. Any fund where the manager refuses to account for the moneys deposited to the beneficiary is a horribly managed fund.

That's just two things. Need more?

seriously, STFU.

you have attacked another member. but the post remains and you're not banned because, oh poor Marky is part of the minority and would cry foul, boo hoo,

this post has about as much merit as the crap you have spewed. it will be deleted. my only regret is that i've refrained from calling you what i really think you are.

 

[aqua lung]

i'm just gonna say

you girls are hilarious.

 

[thirteen]

two new articles, based on the interview Kimmage gave earlier this evening: Irish Times and The Score.

from the latter:

“It’s been, in a word… devastating is a very strong word but I’ve spent the past few days in a black hole,” the award-winning writer told Matt Cooper on Today FM’s The Last Word this evening.
“Ah… unsure of whether I wanted to have anything to do with cycling again. Very, very upsetting yeah. Because something that had been set up and had been so positive to turn so negative has just been very hard to take. I just feel my life has turned into a bloody circus act.”

 

[MarkvW]

Poor Mark, I should set up a chip-in fund for you.

Surely you can answer your own question, care to explain how someone so righteous and perfect as yourself managed to contribute money to a horribly administered fund?

It's still a horribly managed fund. Are you arguing that it is a well-managed fund?

 

[Netserk]

It's still a horribly managed fund. Are you arguing that it is a well-managed fund?

Perhaps there's something in-between?

 

[frenchfry]

two new articles, based on the interview Kimmage gave earlier this evening: Irish Times and The Score.

from the latter:

The absolutely worst outcome of this situation is that Paul Kimmage would feel bad and in any way responsible for the mess.

The purpose of the fund was (and is) something to be lauded, and even with these unfortunate developments the overall result should be considered very positive. Thousands of individuals contributed to fight the scandalous lawsuit launched by corrupt individuals at the head of a corrupt organisation - a lawsuit that threatened the very independence of the press. I say bravo to those who took the initiative to start the fund, bravo to those who contributed and a huge BRAVO to Paul Kimmage who has played a major role in exposing the doping facilitators Verdruggen and McQuaid.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's still a horribly managed fund. Are you arguing that it is a well-managed fund?

Hi Mark,
Why not answer your own questions. Why did someone so amazing like you get caught up contributing to a badly managed fund?

 

[MarkvW]

seriously, STFU.

you have attacked another member. but the post remains and you're not banned because, oh poor Marky is part of the minority and would cry foul, boo hoo,

this post has about as much merit as the crap you have spewed. it will be deleted. my only regret is that i've refrained from calling you what i really think you are.

You disagree with me. I get it. What good does all the vulgar insult do? If you want to argue that the fund was wonderfully managed, argue it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You disagree with me. I get it. What good does all the vulgar insult do? If you want to argue that the fund was wonderfully managed, argue it.

I will just leave this here for you to read Mark:

Jerks induce us to donate money and then point fingers at each other when the money goes undelivered.

Cyclismas, Lesli Cohen, and all of the jerks who solicited my money are dead to me unless that money is made good to Kimmage.

I may have to write this off as a cheap lesson learned.

 

[frenchfry]

It's still a horribly managed fund. Are you arguing that it is a well-managed fund?

Maybe someone should have established a binder full of procedures in order to properly manage the fund?

Maybe I am missing something, but there wasn't a lot of "management" necessary. Perhaps one overlooked safeguard would have been double signatures to access the funds, but given the nature of the operation it isn't outrageous that this wasn't done.

Edit to add that after reading one of the articles linked above this Aaron Brown guy definitely shouldn't be the only one with control of the account and the decisions regarding the disposition of the funds. I also can't see how there could be any possibility of a "huge" tax bill. And I say this while living in a country that taxes everything that moves - and everything that doesn't move for good measure.

 

[thirteen]

The absolutely worst outcome of this situation is that Paul Kimmage would feel bad and in any way responsible for the mess.

The purpose of the fund was (and is) something to be lauded, and even with these unfortunate developments the overall result should be considered very positive. Thousands of individuals contributed to fight the scandalous lawsuit launched by corrupt individuals at the head of a corrupt organisation - a lawsuit that threatened the very independence of the press. I say bravo to those who took the initiative to start the fund, bravo to those who contributed and a huge BRAVO to Paul Kimmage who has played a major role in exposing the doping facilitators Verdruggen and McQuaid.

^ this!

i am hoping to find the audio clip from the actual interview. it is very revealing into Kimmage's frame of mind -- how much the fund meant to him, not the monies necessarily but the support and the fact that people actually were willing to put money where their mouth was, and how low this newest blow has left him.

 

[ElChingon]

Can we change the title of the thread to the "MarkW Thread", this would keep me from expecting the subject matter from being discussed and not MarkW in the Kimmage thread.

Thanks you most rightful mods.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Not even for Americans?

Brown isn't an American. You and the facts never seem to be in the same room.

 

[MacRoadie]

PayPal Fees

As the president of my son's high school marching band booster organization, a registered 501 (c) tax-exempt nonprofit, I can tell you that we pay 2.2% + 30 cents per transaction for accepting funds through PayPal. The standard rate is 2.9% + 30 cents per transaction.

If a for-profit collected $90,000 through PayPal, the base perdentage fee would be $2,610, plus the number of transactions times 30 cents. Even if you assumed an average of $20.00 per donation, or 4,500 transactions, that still only adds another $1,350 for a total fee of $3,960.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Poor Mark, I should set up a chip-in fund for you.

Surely you can answer your own question, care to explain how someone so righteous and perfect as yourself managed to contribute money to a horribly administered fund?

He was "induced..."

 

[Race Radio]

It's still a horribly managed fund. Are you arguing that it is a well-managed fund?

Leslie, Paul, Andy and Digger did a good job drawing attention and raising funds. Unfortunately they trusted the management of the fund to Brown.

It seems clear that Lesli, Paul, and Andy did a great job....Brown however has done a horrible job of managing his part of the fund.

To ascribe the questionable actions of one person to a group who worked hard with good intentions is silly.

 

[BroDeal]

As the president of my son's high school marching band booster organization, a registered 501 (c) tax-exempt nonprofit, I can tell you that we pay 2.2% + 30 cents per transaction for accepting funds through PayPal. The standard rate is 2.9% + 30 cents per transaction.

If a for-profit collected $90,000 through PayPal, the base perdentage fee would be $2,610, plus the number of transactions times 30 cents. Even if you assumed an average of $20.00 per donation, or 4,500 transactions, that still only adds another $1,350 for a total fee of $3,960.

Obviously they did not have a 501(c) set up, at least not initially. The number of contributers has been reported as 3000+. So we can probably place the PayPal fees at roughly $4K. Add the $64K remaining and the $21K paid out. That gives $89K. The $21K and $64K are probably not round figures, so add another $1K to account for that. We are still $6K short.

Brown may have consulted with a lawyer or a tax accountant. He may have belatedly set up a 501(c) to avoid a taxes. Those things would cost money. He may have also charged his trip to see Kimmage to the fund, which would arguably be kosher. He says he paid some sort of tax liability. This could be the result of comingling funds with Cyclismas. Anyway, it seems like there is a decent chance that no money is "missing."

Brown is not doing himself any favors by keeping quiet. The lawsuit complicates matters but if he has a lawyer then a properly vetted statement should be released.

 

[MarkvW]

I will just leave this here for you to read Mark:

I've calmed down a little since then. I apologize for the word jerk. That is over the top.

I wouldn't replace it with a complimentary word, though.

 

[MarkvW]

Leslie, Paul, Andy and Digger did a good job drawing attention and raising funds. Unfortunately they trusted the management of the fund to Brown.

It seems clear that Lesli, Paul, and Andy did a great job....Brown however has done a horrible job of managing his part of the fund.

To ascribe the questionable actions of one person to a group who worked hard with good intentions is silly.

I buy that everybody except Brown had good intentions. Cyclismas, nevertheless is responsible for its action--or inaction. Cyclismas was not minding the store.

 

[MacRoadie]

Obviously they did not have a 501(c) set up, at least not initially. The number of contributers has been reported as 3000+. So we can probably place the PayPal fees at roughly $4K. Add the $64K remaining and the $21K paid out. That gives $89K. The $21K and $64K are probably not round figures, so add another $1K to account for that. We are still $6K short.

Brown may have consulted with a lawyer or a tax accountant. He may have belatedly set up a 501(c) to avoid a taxes. Those things would cost money. He may have also charged his trip to see Kimmage to the fund, which would arguably be kosher. He says he paid some sort of tax liability. This could be the result of comingling funds with Cyclismas. Anyway, it seems like there is a decent chance that no money is "missing."

Brown is not doing himself any favors by keeping quiet. The lawsuit complicates matters but if he has a lawyer then a properly vetted statement should be released.

Plus, as has been pointed out (and used to beat some over the head), Brown is a Canadian and I assume (?) was living in Canada at the time the fund was set up. If the funds were paid into a Canadian bank account, then Canadian tax laws and taxes would apply and not US. Cyclismas.com is a domain name registered to Ellmore Consultancy Ltd, in Lincolnshire, UK so could the funds have been deposited in a British account?

Obviously, these are questions that can probably be answered by others on here.

 

[BroDeal]

Plus, as has been pointed out (and used to beat some over the head), Brown is a Canadian and I assume (?) was living in Canada at the time the fund was set up. If the funds were paid into a Canadian bank account, then Canadian tax laws and taxes would apply and not US. Cyclismas.com is a domain name registered to Ellmore Consultancy Ltd, in Lincolnshire, UK so could the funds have been deposited in a British account?

Obviously, these are questions that can probably be answered by others on here.

Of course a lot of this speculation relies on Brown's statement that $64K remains, for which he has failed to provide proof. For all we know he is driving a new car paid for with Marky Mark's huge contribution.

We also have no knowledge of what led to the split-up of the Cyclismas partnership.

 

[D-Queued]

I've calmed down a little since then. I apologize for the word jerk. That is over the top.

I wouldn't replace it with a complimentary word, though.

Since I posted numerous encouragements to contribute, please feel free to vent your anger towards me. You can call me a jerk, and even accuse me of inducement. I don't mind being that lightening rod.

All of this name-calling misses the entire point.

I still commend these folks for their initiative, and follow through. I am impressed they conceived of it and actually pulled it off. Clearly they were not 'professional' fund-raisers for this kind of activity. Simply people who felt that they had to take action against injustice and the perpetuation of gross neglect within the sport. To call Pat and Hein bullies would be too soft.

It is easy to put your name on an on-line poll. A lot harder to get people to contribute real money. That this initiative garnered as much hard support as it did is arguably the strongest statement yet on how broad the concern is about the UCI's current management.

I do hope all of the money ends up in Kimmage's benefit.

I would contribute again, though, even if the money were shredded, just to express how much the UCI needs to change.

Dave.