Kittel Tweet

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May 28, 2012
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martinvickers said:
No, Pentacycle. It didn't. It did no such thing. That's just how you've interpreted it, based on a bootful of assumptions you can't verify.

It isn't interpretation.

Kittel is angry about the result, and many people feel the same. Clear use of words there.

How is that factual, what could he know that we don't? And IF he knows something, he's doing a terrible job making a credible statement.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Pentacycle said:
It isn't interpretation.

Kittel is angry about the result, and many people feel the same. Clear use of words there.

How is that factual, what could he know that we don't? And IF he knows something, he's doing a terrible job making a credible statement.

Yes, he expressed his emotions. He didn't tweet anything about his knowledge. Two. Different. things.

What could he know> Well, he's there to see it and we aren't. so presumably quite a lot of things, in theory at least.

doesn't detract from the fact that you are making an assumption about Kitel's knowledge that simply doesn't and cannot logically follow from what was tweeted. and now you won't back down from that...
 
Jul 17, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Of course it's relevant to sky. The moment kittel calls out a rider based on performance that grants a veil of legitimacy to the whole act of using performances to judge riders. Especially for those who havent condemned his behaviour outright which I notice sky fans have been reluctant to do.

And sky are quite obviously first in line here. Not only are they the defending 1-2 at the tour wiggins froome Porte and rogers are the first 4 people that come into anyone's head when they think of riders whose performances have improved massively over the last few years.

So if it grants a veil of legitimacy to judging riders based on performance you object to it why? I'm really struggling why people are finding what Kittel said so unacceptable when all that happens here is judgements made on the basis of performance, and criticism of omerta.

So a rider speaks out, but it seems the wrong rider saying the wrong things in the wrong place about another wrong rider. There would be no problem if it had been the right rider at the right time about the right team. Which means there is a double standard at play, basically one that runs along the lines of we only like riders to break omerta if we agree with what they're saying.

So Kittel should have called out Sky, despite them not even being at the race. I don't agree with condemnation based on performance alone. In fact generally I'll avoid judging people I don't know based on virtually no facts, but Kittel is a pro-rider, I'm guessing he may know more than me, and is in a far better position to make a judgement on a performance. That said I hope he does know something more to back up what he has done. Perhaps if he was to reveal that we would have a proper break with omerta. But it would still be a small player rather than the names you crave to be brought low.

and racism. Well the only people who ever get accused are small fry from the periphery. Caster semanya, Quintana, the Chinese swimmer, talik makhloufi, as an isolated case it's not racism, but the only people who ever get called out are small fry who can't speak English, neither pure white nor pure black, in sports where far far more suspicious and sucesful athletes are left untouched.

funny that. What a massive coincidence that all these anti doping crusaders so disgusted by these obvious dopers, found nothing suspicious in the people who are running/ swimming/ cycling twice as fast for twice as long to twice as many gold medals and racking up massive sponsorship deals, hero status, and fame in the process.

Or, it's not a coincidence.

I realise you have a particular gripe about bias in media reporting, but I don't know how that is relevant to Kittel's tweet. He's not a journalist or an administrator, he's a fellow rider. He's not part of the system, or the status quo, he's making an albeit knee-jerk but honest reaction to another rider's performance. I'm not sure you can weave it into your caucasian media conspiracy, it's a different source.

As for Sayar, I have no idea either way. Rider on home soil in front of home fans on roads and in conditions he knows very well indeed, seems like a reasonable performance. But on the other hand I want riders speaking out as well. If riders change the sport does.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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I feel particulary sorry for that Berhane dude, after coming in 13th in the Tropicale Amissa Bongo to guys like, well, look yourself: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=23881 he clearly was peaking for the Tour of Ataturk.

It should be a comfort for Kittel and Europcar [didnt they have that cortisone problem the last years?] the UCI's doping policies work like a charm.

I saw other riders have removed their accusations on Sayar on twitter, Seeldraeyers was funny though.

Good to see Marcel beat a convicted doper today.
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
I feel particulary sorry for that Berhane dude, after coming in 13th in the Tropicale Amissa Bongo to guys like, well, look yourself: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=23881 he clearly was peaking for the Tour of Ataturk.

It should be a comfort for Kittel and Europcar [didnt they have that cortisone problem the last years?] the UCI's doping policies work like a charm.

I saw other riders have removed their accusations on Sayar on twitter, Seeldraeyers was funny though.

Good to see Marcel beat a convicted doper today.

what other accusations?
 
Jul 13, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Post of the thread so far.

Yeah so much better without the racist attitudes towards the Irish when first posted! Good job sittingbison edited it before MartinV saw it! GalicHo is a rather nasty peice of work from what I've seen of his posts....
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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xcleigh said:
Yeah so much better without the racist attitudes towards the Irish when first posted! Good job sittingbison edited it before MartinV saw it! GalicHo is a rather nasty peice of work from what I've seen of his posts....

I did see it, though only through it being quoted by others, the poster having long since been given the treatment he deserves. Neither the post nor the poster are worthy of comment, to be frank.

Realistically, if that's the level now tolerated, the forum's in pretty dire shape. But sure, we knew that.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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martinvickers said:
I did see it, though only through it being quoted by others, the poster having long since been given the treatment he deserves. Neither the post nor the poster are worthy of comment, to be frank.

Realistically, if that's the level now tolerated, the forum's in pretty dire shape. But sure, we knew that.

Frankly unbelievable someone can post something that distasteful, racist and insulting and still be able to post. By far the far the worst thing I have read here
 
martinvickers said:
I did see it, though only through it being quoted by others, the poster having long since been given the treatment he deserves. Neither the post nor the poster are worthy of comment, to be frank.

Realistically, if that's the level now tolerated, the forum's in pretty dire shape. But sure, we knew that.

Yeah, instead of having people post their blunt opinions, the forum is much better off with some crybaby who moans like a five-year old every other post, "I'm ignoring you . I'm ignoring you."
 
Jul 13, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Post of the thread so far.

BroDeal said:
Yeah, instead of having people post their blunt opinions, the forum is much better off with some crybaby who moans like a five-year old every other post, "I'm ignoring you . I'm ignoring you."

Ah ok duly noted. So racism = just a blunt opinion. Good. Who ever needed Martin Luther King eh? All those southern white folk and their blunt opinions. Them slaves jus' be cry babies!
 
Netserk said:
What Kittel did was not breaking the Omerta.

Of course you're correct. Kittel trash-talked an outsider. To carry the Omerta metaphor a step further, it would be like a Sicilian mafioso informing on a Yakuza who is setting up in his territory. :)
 
Kwibus said:
I agree. I will keep on cheering for riders that refuse to shut about obvious doping use. Do not give the omerta. Chance.

Ps Jetse Bol of Blanco also tweeted that the real winner will probably be known in a few months.
You are putting too much faith on the UCI testing being efficient. I doubt that would happen. Especially when they want to promote cycling outside traditional countries.
 
Galic Ho said:
The high and mighty road of being so little that you cannot stand being told you are wrong.

But this stuff with Kittel is about one thing only. Consistency. It means little if you attack the weakest kid in the playground. That's just posing. Posing for a group to get them to accept you. Behavioural dynamics in motion. Kimmage understood this. He has always gone for the route of the cause. The core power or the symbol of power. Yet all you're sitting here doing is cheering a guy whose sole media agenda this year has been to put on the "I'm clean badge and wave it loudly." He's paying his omerta dues. I half expect him to upgrade from Argos Shimano next season. The peloton has it's own rules. Those rules are the rules Marcel Kittel plays by. Everything pro cycling does is a show. A charade. One giant magic show.

Like the truth can compete with that. The usual test is time. Time reveals all. If Kittel remains at Argos, then yeah. Probably just peeved this one off time. Or simply lacking the nads to say what he really feels about cycling as a whole. Either way, he's still playing by omerta's rules. Even a clean rider has to play by the cycling rule book. Kittel's actions will show how much he believes in clean cycling. Right now, he reeks of David Millar. No excuses, it's cyclists who have to call out dodgy riders. But they must be CONSISTENT. Pick on all the names. Big, medium and small dopers. Not just the puny little chump doping to make ends meet. That's almost beyond pathetic and gutless. Better to say sweet F#&% all. But then that would remove the symbolism you adore. The camouflaged actions that you deem as 'progress' of a clean peloton.

Good luck with the naivety. Don't be sitting here thinking the naysayers, or whatever term you use, are evil. If we were, you'd be dead (not through our hands, but your own), broke, in a ditch crying or about to be conned for everything you own simply because you really are that gullible and easy to manipulate. You fanboys have no back bone. No moral fibre. The wind blows, you blow with it. There is a sucker born every minute and you were one of them.

GH, this is a good post.

Your post above really does capture why I have mixed feelings about Kittel's tweet. He is targetting and playing the game, all the while trying to sound like the new clean hope.

It does grate.
 
Dazed and Confused said:
The performance was below 5.9 w/kg, so he is staying under the radar imo. Perhaps the team hired a better doctor (Leinders?) or perhaps the guy is clean. Who knows.

Don't mind the peloton questioning riders performances, in fact I think it can help driving things in the right direction short term. Of course calling out Sayar is rather cheap, but hey we gotta start somewhere.

Luigi at the worlds RR next? Now that takes real balls.
What??? How long was that climb? not even long enough to consider the limit at 6 w/kg. For shorter climbs is really worthless to go with power per kg measures unless you have a previous history on the climb.
 
Jul 13, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
I notice you avoided addressing his post. I think we can all see why.

Probably doesn't respond to racists. Denigrating whole nations seems to be a GalicHo speciality.
 
Jul 13, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
I notice you avoided addressing his post. I think we can all see why.

The original post was edited by a mod. The reason is shown. I think therein you will see exactly why Martin Vickers didn't respond.