Kreuziger going down?

[blackcat]

The ferry trip from Ireland to France is long and rough. And the fish grow large and swift.

coen bros need scriptwriters for hawleys second iteration of hbo fargo. i will put my cv in with yours

 

[peloton]

Why is JV writing in this thread instead of his own? (sorry, not wading thru all pages with the Sky nonsense)

Pellizotti was banned pretty soon after his BP was flagged (-09/-10), why did UCI wait 2 years (-11/12) with Kreuziger?

 

[blackcat]

80 grand worth of equipment!

So when the profile is good, the machine is good, when they are not what you'd expect, it's the machine. Happy days!

yeah, lance was notoriously cheap with his bribes, like hugh grant, and he bought the cheapest option for sysmex.

 

[JV1973]

Yeah, worked well with lance.

As I've said before, I'm willing to wait and see who's right. And as I've said before, I'm willing to put a very large wager on the result.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

No, its really not. I never blamed the machine. I said that retic counts were highly susceptible to mis-calibration an temperature issues. I offered this as a possibility. With regards to Wiggins, I was told by Anne Gripper, who I consider highly credible, that this was the case.

But in the end: I'm the one who released those profiles. Not the UCI. And I did so with complete confidence - and at the request of the above mentioned riders.

The UCI had zero reservations on either profile.

Why?

Because they are clean profiles of clean riders. Argue it all you want. As history shows, the truth eventually comes out. I'm quite comfortable with that.

But, if you prefer the Commonwealth riders conspiracy theory, that's fine. It's all opinion, on both of our parts. Neither of us have vision into absolute truth outsider of our own immediate existence. It's just opinion.

God save the Queen.

What I don't get is why Gripper is willing to talk to you about riders and their tests/results. Outside of official channels, this should be privileged information that you are *not* privy to.

A year ago, Race Radio let slip that Gripper gave you the thumbs up/down on the cleanliness of a rider that wasn't on your team. I called him out on it, but he back-pedalled at Lance-style cadence...

John Swanson

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Here's the timeline:

2013
June 28th - The UCI sends a letter to Kreuziger asking for an explanation for his values.
October 3rd - Kreuziger replies and sends two expert reports.

---HERE BE DRAGONS---

2014
May 30th - The UCI contacts Kreuziger to let him know his explanation has been rejected. A BP process would therefore start at some point. Kreuziger starts working on his defense.
June 6th-15th - Contador beats Froome at Dauphine.
June 14th-22th - Tour de Suisse. Kreuziger starts and finishes because of reasons.
June 28th - Tinkoff-Saxo decides to go public.

From Tinkoff-Saxo's official website, dated June 21st:

http://www.tinkoffsaxo.com/news/roman-shows-tour-shape/

^ How does this fit into the timeline?


Roman shows Tour-shape – 2nd on Verbier
21st Jun 2014

[...]

Following a slightly disappointing performance in yesterday’s time trial, Roman Kreuziger showed great – and more importantly – increasing shape ahead of the paramount Tour de France.

[...]

I tried to get the stage win today but it was difficult to make a difference before we got on to the steeper section coming into Verbier with few kilometers to go. But I’m happy that I took time on most of my rivals and that I’m back in the top 10 and improving ahead of the Tour, Roman explains.

[...]

 

[JV1973]

80 grand worth of equipment!

So when the profile is good, the machine is good, when they are not what you'd expect, it's the machine. Happy days!

Building multiple regression models is considerably more expensive than 80 grand. It does depend on near-perfect data to function correctly, as any model regression does. Transport/temperature/calibration issues all have an effect on the data. Minimizing those factors is crucial to the regression model functioning correctly.

 

[Poursuivant]

when something wrong happens, the first suspect is always the team thts going to benefit most. in this case, it has to be sky.


for a conspiracy theory, there must be some assumption that looks far-fetched. in this case, no assumption made is actually a far-fetched one. everything said in the allegation is logically plausible.

if the paid employees keep out of the discussion, and we come back to how a passport is being used to target Kreuziger, we could prob hav an enlightened discussion.

Give it up mate, seriously.

 

[Afrank]

Just a reminder, keep this thread on the topic of Kreuziger. And not on Sky or Froome, or whatever. Thanks.

 

[The Hitch]

Because they are clean profiles of clean riders. Argue it all you want. As history shows, the truth eventually comes out. I'm quite comfortable with that.

So when can we expect Indurain to fall?

Or for that matter all the footballers and tennis players etc who were involved in Puerto who havent yet been named.

 

[SiAp1984]

Let me guess, it's all Sky's fault.

+1

I mean lets look at it. On the one side, we have a team lead by one of the worst dopers in history, with a GT rider who was banned for doping, socialized by full-blooded dope supporters like Saiz and Bruyneel, and interestingly giving a comeback this year which indicates that he is back on full program.

On the other side, there is a team which sacked a doctor for suspicious history (Leinders), which took out one of its top riders by itself for suspicious values (Henao), made one of its most important domestiques leave because of doping history (iirc,,Rogers, who interestingly was hired by the team mentioned above and curiously came off the hook of another doping offence this year, winning two stages at the Giro on the way- something which he has never been able to accomplish before). Plus, they got perfectly legal TUEs for their top rider.

And then there is a guy like Kreuziger, who rode for Astana (!) before and is now with the first team mentioned herein. This guy has "suspect" written all over his forehead. We all know that passport prodeedings take quite a while. It is not suspicious that the case came out now.

The idea that Sky could have anything to do with this is so ridiculous. Remember that the UCI tried to cover ACs positive back then? This guy apparently enjoyed huge and unfair support by the UCI for years, just as his spiritus rector- Lance Armstrong.

Lets face it: Saxo are the bad guys in this game. Not Sky.

 

[Netserk]

I also posted in "about the forum" forum, but dissecting a topic like this (timing, affiliations, performance trends) can really be a clinic highlight. Please don't talk about geopolitics, and keep JV's discourse to the JV thread. There is no reason reason so far to bring up sky, except for parallels to JTL, so keep the conspiracy stuff to half dozen sky threads. Please?

__


I want to post about the relative decline of Nibali: maybe he got the same letter last summer? Maybe they liked his explanation, but he toned it down from Giro standards?

So Sky is no go, but Nibali is totally on topic?

 

[The Hitch]

As I've said before, I'm willing to wait and see who's right. And as I've said before, I'm willing to put a very large wager on the result.

The point is you said the uci had zero reservations with wiggos profile as an argument. The argument is easily dismissed with the simple observation that there were plenty of dopers that year who's profiles were also seen by the uci as perfectly ok.

So the - uci said wiggos profile was good is a bit forced.

 

[Netserk]

As I've said before, I'm willing to wait and see who's right. And as I've said before, I'm willing to put a very large wager on the result.

And I'm sure time has proved that Indurain was clean, right?

 

[Poursuivant]

+1

I mean lets look at it. On the one side, we have a team lead by one of the worst dopers in history, with a GT rider who was banned for doping, socialized by full-blooded dope supporters like Saiz and Bruyneel, and interestingly giving a comeback this year which indicates that he is back on full program.

On the other side, there is a team which sacked a doctor for suspicious history (Leinders), which took out one of its top riders by itself for suspicious values (Henao), made one of its most important domestiques leave because of doping history (iirc,,Rogers, who interestingly was hired by the team mentioned above and curiously came off the hook of another doping offence this year, winning two stages at the Giro on the way- something which he has never been able to accomplish before). Plus, they got perfectly legal TUEs for their top rider.

And then there is a guy like Kreuziger, who rode for Astana (!) before and is now with the first team mentioned herein. This guy has "suspect" written all over his forehead. We all know that passport prodeedings take quite a while. It is not suspicious that the case came out now.

The idea that Sky could have anything to do with this is so ridiculous. Remember that the UCI tried to cover ACs positive back then? This guy apparently enjoyed huge and unfair support by the UCI for years, just as his spiritus rector- Lance Armstrong.

Lets face it: Saxo are the bad guys in this game. Not Sky.

"You are a sky bot, Cound, inhaler, coffee, marginal gains pun, badzilla" etc yawn.

 

[peloton]

+1

I mean lets look at it. On the one side, we have a team lead by one of the worst dopers in history, with a GT rider who was banned for doping, socialized by full-blooded dope supporters like Saiz and Bruyneel, and interestingly giving a comeback this year which indicates that he is back on full program.

On the other side, there is a team which sacked a doctor for suspicious history (Leinders), which took out one of its top riders by itself for suspicious values (Henao), made one of its most important domestiques leave because of doping history (iirc,,Rogers, who interestingly was hired by the team mentioned above and curiously came off the hook of another doping offence this year, winning two stages at the Giro on the way- something which he has never been able to accomplish before). Plus, they got perfectly legal TUEs for their top rider.

And then there is a guy like Kreuziger, who rode for Astana (!) before and is now with the first team mentioned herein. This guy has "suspect" written all over his forehead. We all know that passport prodeedings take quite a while. It is not suspicious that the case came out now.

The idea that Sky could have anything to do with this is so ridiculous. Remember that the UCI tried to cover ACs positive back then? This guy apparently enjoyed huge and unfair support by the UCI for years, just as his spiritus rector- Lance Armstrong.

Lets face it: Saxo are the bad guys in this game. Not Sky.

Be careful with the stones in a glass house

 

[LaFlorecita]

+1

I mean lets look at it. On the one side, we have a team lead by one of the worst dopers in history, with a GT rider who was banned for doping, socialized by full-blooded dope supporters like Saiz and Bruyneel, and interestingly giving a comeback this year which indicates that he is back on full program.

On the other side, there is a team which sacked a doctor for suspicious history (Leinders), which took out one of its top riders by itself for suspicious values (Henao), made one of its most important domestiques leave because of doping history (iirc,,Rogers, who interestingly was hired by the team mentioned above and curiously came off the hook of another doping offence this year, winning two stages at the Giro on the way- something which he has never been able to accomplish before). Plus, they got perfectly legal TUEs for their top rider.

And then there is a guy like Kreuziger, who rode for Astana (!) before and is now with the first team mentioned herein. This guy has "suspect" written all over his forehead. We all know that passport prodeedings take quite a while. It is not suspicious that the case came out now.

The idea that Sky could have anything to do with this is so ridiculous. Remember that the UCI tried to cover ACs positive back then? This guy apparently enjoyed huge and unfair support by the UCI for years, just as his spiritus rector- Lance Armstrong.

Lets face it: Saxo are the bad guys in this game. Not Sky.

Lol just lol. Yeah right, Sky are so clean

 

[Miburo]

Why are people talking about Sky? I don't understand, nothing to do with sky.

Can someone explain me why RK had this warning before tour 2013 and the UCI was ok with the fact that he had like 5 months to find an explanation while he still could race?

Doesn't make any sense at all. And then it took the UCI 6 months to reply.

Da fuq?

 

[hrotha]

From Tinkoff-Saxo's official website, dated June 21st:

http://www.tinkoffsaxo.com/news/roman-shows-tour-shape/

^ How does this fit into the timeline?


Roman shows Tour-shape – 2nd on Verbier
21st Jun 2014

[...]

Following a slightly disappointing performance in yesterday’s time trial, Roman Kreuziger showed great – and more importantly – increasing shape ahead of the paramount Tour de France.

[...]

I tried to get the stage win today but it was difficult to make a difference before we got on to the steeper section coming into Verbier with few kilometers to go. But I’m happy that I took time on most of my rivals and that I’m back in the top 10 and improving ahead of the Tour, Roman explains.

[...]

Bear in mind my timeline is taken 100% from Tinkoff-Saxo's site too. My guess, with the limited info we have? Tinkoff didn't intend to pull Kreuziger from the Tour when they posted that. They intended to line him up until he was provisionally suspended, which would explain why he started at Suisse. They changed their mind. Pressure from UCI/ASO? Possibly.

 

[ferryman]

Lol just lol. Yeah right, Sky are so clean

Maybe, maybe not but take it to the Sky thread. Kreuziger on topic here.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Bear in mind my timeline is taken 100% from Tinkoff-Saxo's site too. My guess, with the limited info we have? Tinkoff didn't intend to pull Kreuziger from the Tour when they posted that. They intended to line him up until he was provisionally suspended, which would explain why he started at Suisse. They changed their mind. Pressure from UCI/ASO? Possibly.

Yes, I think so, too. From the Tour de France 2014 Start List - thread:

"@8aldwin: Majka says it was not his plan, he's tired nad didn't train much. "I am not ready, I don't feel ready...""

So it really does seem like it was a last minute decision to pull Kreuziger from the Tour team.

Edit: yup:

Majka is in, but he's not happy

"Yesterday I got a phone call from Bjarne with the decision. I am not happy about it, I think the team doesn't care about my health."

Majka says it was not his plan, he's tired nad didn't train much. "I am not ready, I don't feel ready..."

 

[LaFlorecita]

Maybe, maybe not but take it to the Sky thread. Kreuziger on topic here.

So what would be the right thread to discuss the possibility that the UCI sidelined Kreuziger to weaken Tinkoff-Saxo and give Froome a much bigger chance to win the Tour?

 

[Chaddy]

The David Icke forums?

 

[Catwhoorg]

The timing is odd.

That much I will say.


If a case is opened I don't think the UCI has had one fail yet (same as I said about JTL). The standard to open a case is that restrictive.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The David Icke forums?

Yeah, because it isn't even a remote possibility, of course.