Kristoff

[bjorn]

Re:

I can't imagine FIS would be too keen on exposing systematic doping amongst the Norwegian skiers, considering the amount of fans from Norway and the repercussions of a Norwegian doping scandal. The most naïve thing any sports fan can do is think that the federations aren't hiding positive tests from the public. We already know that they do. That's a fact. Armstrong and Verbrugghen proved it.

I have no faith in the Norwegian XC team being clean, considering how dominant they've been, and it makes perfect sense that someone with the medal count of Dæhlie, Bjørgen or Northug wouldn't ever get popped. The meltdown would be too big for a small sport like XC skiing, considering the sport is already struggling for viewers in big countries like Germany and Russia. If they lose the Norwegians too, it's pretty much over.

every body is talking about how bad the high nr of top norwegian result is for the xc skiing.so one norwegian taken for doping would gain the sport .(so it is god for the sport that they take germain /russians skier not norwegian.)
we invite young foreigners to train with the youngster for them to see how much work have to be done. and learning them our training methods . just to get other nations up to noways level in the future.

 

[Pulp]

Re: Re:

i was talking of top performance skiers national team. a sport where the gain from doping is high.not one single one have been busted... for doping. that should not be possible if norways national team is like the other nations that have one or to of their top skiers taken every year.

Several norwegian skiers have been denied to start over the years due to high blood levels.
Kjærgård and Pedersen (cyclists) are also proven dopers.
And what nations get 1-2 skiers busted every year? Maybe, just maybe, you could argue Russia, but then again, they aren`t really fast anymore, are they..

That said, I think Kristoff is clean, but for other reasons than his nationality!
Mainly 3:
1. His talent was always there.. (NC champion already at the age of 19, only in Norway ofc, but he still had to beat Hushovd that quite liked to wear the national jersey in Tdf...)
2. His progression has been quite slow and linear, no sudden leaps.
3. I actually believe 80-90% of the current peloton is clean, which gives clean riders a chance..

From that follows that I also believe some of his strongest competitors (i.e Sagan, Degenkolb, Vanmarcke, GVA) are clean, so the last point probably makes me just naive..

 

[bjorn]

Re:

That means one or two things: either Norwegian skiers have the most advanced programs, or they're protected while their rivals aren't. Simple as.

most advanced training program ... yes...
doping no .
in norway there have been a discussing of the matter of using high house in the training. it is not allowed in norway other country use this. in norway you have to train in high area to get this effect not slep in a tent(house).

 

[bjorn]

Re: Re:

i was talking of top performance skiers national team. a sport where the gain from doping is high.not one single one have been busted... for doping. that should not be possible if norways national team is like the other nations that have one or to of their top skiers taken every year.

Several norwegian skiers have been denied to start over the years due to high blood levels.
Kjærgård and Pedersen (cyclists) are also proven dopers.
And what nations get 1-2 skiers busted every year? Maybe, just maybe, you could argue Russia, but then again, they aren`t really fast anymore, are they..

That said, I think Kristoff is clean, but for other reasons than his nationality!
Mainly 3:
1. His talent was always there.. (NC champion already at the age of 19, only in Norway ofc, but he still had to beat Hushovd that quite liked to wear the national jersey in Tdf...)
2. His progression has been quite slow and linear, no sudden leaps.
3. I actually believe 80-90% of the current peloton is clean, which gives clean riders a chance..

From that follows that I also believe some of his strongest competitors (i.e Sagan, Degenkolb, Vanmarcke, GVA) are clean, so the last point probably makes me just naive..

even in norway we will have some who want to do short cuts. I am aware of the kjærgård tragedy. but what i am saing is that it can not be done organist doping i our biggest sport xc skiing with money from the tax payers.and certainly not for a so long time . year after year have we been the best nation in both womens and mens xc skiings.

it is commonly known that xc skiers ned even higher level of o2 than cycling. and we came to this higher lewl in skiing than other nations . is it not possible that this knowledge would be used even in cycling for our top cyclist?
the cyclist like boasson hagen kristoff and hushovd all are using the olympic centre for training to help them to be as god as possible.

 

[The Hitch]

Great work wonderlance. Good to see the signature convenient spelling mistakes again. Love the profile name choice.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

The bridge's occupant has returned?

Great work wonderlance. Good to see the signature convenient spelling mistakes again. Love the profile name choice.

The diction improves as the post count increases. Unfortunate but telling.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

The bridge's occupant has returned?

Great work wonderlance. Good to see the signature convenient spelling mistakes again. Love the profile name choice.

The diction improves as the post count increases. Unfortunate but telling.

Are you guys insinuating that bjork is really a cover profile for a banned/other user? It's that or something way over my head... So cryptic.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Re: Re:

i was talking of top performance skiers national team. a sport where the gain from doping is high.not one single one have been busted... for doping. that should not be possible if norways national team is like the other nations that have one or to of their top skiers taken every year.

Never tested positive. I like their credibility.

 

[observer]

It would seem that the Norwegians are similar to the Australians. Vastly superior genetics and training methods. The only difference is that we only tend to dope once.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Oh my... that´s a new low. Don´t even know where to start to hack away at the Norges coming out of nowhere defending their "clean" riders/athletes. Oh my... even "veteran" posters who should know better by now trap (like "ToreBear")...
Lolz @ better genetics, better training, and else we heard before...
But we have new entries: "Norwegians have better ethics" & "Norwegians are the least tested positive" (as evidence, wiki was linked).
Wow, that is new. I am stunned. I seldom accuse somebody of trolling (AFAIK, I never did before)... but this thread qualifies for it, as a whole.
You can get fooled once (Festina), twice (Puerto), may even three+ times (LA, etc.)... but after all those years and scandals, some people still think their countries athletes dope less or not at all!? Omg! I can only quote Einstein, because I am otherwise speechless: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

 

[sniper]

Omg! I can only quote Einstein, because I am otherwise speechless: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

Einstein ruled hard

as for Norwegians and doping, perhaps Bjorn can inform us whatever happened to these investigations, or under which carpet they've been swept:

viewtopic.php?p=1387860#p1387860

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/02/20/ ... ping-ring/

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Bjorn or whoever. Can´t remember one Norge guy manning up here and saying what it is: There is no Norwegian superiority in training methods, genetics, ethics (the best ever joke in the clinic), less positive tested, and whatever... Nationalism blinds people. Me too sometimes, but not that hard that I am fully blinded. Still can´t believe all the crap posted here was meant serious. My brain suffers coz of this idiocity. Fully.

 

[mrhender]

There might be some truth in the argument that some countries on average have some kind of in-built cultural-moral deterrence to doping..

Accepting this logic may also mean that as a percentage fewer (insert high etics country) dope compared to other countries (on said average..)

I don't know about Norway but I'll play along for the sake of argument..

Problem is explaining world beaters beating a conservative 10-20% doped peloton...

One theory aired here is that genetics and better/harder training as well as specializing in areas that are suitable to climate and geography can produce better talent then elsewhere..

Question is -is that enough to produce the relative performances we see now?

We cannot know for sure (as in for now prove it, either way)
But we can establish likelihood based on empiric and scientific data,,,

In the case of Kristoff.. Either he is a product of only superior (insert non-cheating arguments) what -not...

Or -even accepting the first outlined premise he is more likely in the minor percentage that do not care or apply to the national ethics programme...

There will always be some who breach the norm and refuse to dope (historically probably the minority)
And there will always someone who breach the norm and dope (if we accept the norm in Norway is not doping)

But who will be world beaters?

Hmm..

I know what I think most likely...

 

[ebandit]

how's the 'fat guy' get up the bergs so well?...............is he as chunky as he looks?....................anyone know actual mass?

ta..............Mark L

 

[kosmonaut]

Please note that bjorn does not speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Kristoff's known to be around 78kg, at 181cm. His stepdad and coach, Stein Ørn, once said that they do some weight training off-season – including upper body – to be better prepared for the average two to three crashes per season. His theory was that the kilo's was worth it for Kristoff's type of rider because of fewer/shorter injury breaks.

Kristoff has had a progress curve that's extremely steady, especially if you look beyond results. So for those who's been following him for a few years, the Ronde win was nothing but expected. He's both physically and mentally extremely strong and it has been a long term plan to win in the manner he did.

Btw, when he went to Canada last fall to do some late season racing, Ørn said it was to train for the 2015 worlds. Not the races itself, but the actual trip on that time exact time of year. Meticulous much? I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it. But for every win on the way it will get more difficult for him.

All this doesn't necessarily make him cleans though. Ethics and all that is pure national bias. If he's clean or not depends on how dirty the peloton is.

 

[sniper]

Re:

...
All this doesn't necessarily make him cleans though.

ehm..duh..
otherwise good post.
This Ørn guy is also Bystrom's mentor, isn't he?
Seems he has a good nose for talent.

 

[bjorn]

Oh my... that´s a new low. Don´t even know where to start to hack away at the Norges coming out of nowhere defending their "clean" riders/athletes. Oh my... even "veteran" posters who should know better by now trap (like "ToreBear")...
Lolz @ better genetics, better training, and else we heard before...
But we have new entries: "Norwegians have better ethics" & "Norwegians are the least tested positive" (as evidence, wiki was linked).
Wow, that is new. I am stunned. I seldom accuse somebody of trolling (AFAIK, I never did before)... but this thread qualifies for it, as a whole.
You can get fooled once (Festina), twice (Puerto), may even three+ times (LA, etc.)... but after all those years and scandals, some people still think their countries athletes dope less or not at all!? Omg! I can only quote Einstein, because I am otherwise speechless: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

 

[bjorn]

Omg! I can only quote Einstein, because I am otherwise speechless: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

Einstein ruled hard

as for Norwegians and doping, perhaps Bjorn can inform us whatever happened to these investigations, or under which carpet they've been swept:

viewtopic.php?p=1387860#p1387860

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2012/02/20/ ... ping-ring/

There is a lot of doping in body building /training centers . this is not what this case is about . of course we have people going on drugs in norway . maybe more than in other country. we also se a lot of middle age men try to beat their friends with all possible methods. I am not talking of that
but the organist top sportsmen either it is xc skiing or cycling. the national teams . the teams that are using the best experts we have for our country top athletes . (the olympic training centre in Lillehammer.)If that centre have been taken with as little as a hint of evidence of doping they would loose all there money from the government .

 

[bjorn]

Re:

Please note that bjorn does not speak on behalf of all Norwegians.

Kristoff's known to be around 78kg, at 181cm. His stepdad and coach, Stein Ørn, once said that they do some weight training off-season – including upper body – to be better prepared for the average two to three crashes per season. His theory was that the kilo's was worth it for Kristoff's type of rider because of fewer/shorter injury breaks.

Kristoff has had a progress curve that's extremely steady, especially if you look beyond results. So for those who's been following him for a few years, the Ronde win was nothing but expected. He's both physically and mentally extremely strong and it has been a long term plan to win in the manner he did.

Btw, when he went to Canada last fall to do some late season racing, Ørn said it was to train for the 2015 worlds. Not the races itself, but the actual trip on that time exact time of year. Meticulous much? I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it. But for every win on the way it will get more difficult for him.

All this doesn't necessarily make him cleans though. Ethics and all that is pure national bias. If he's clean or not depends on how dirty the peloton is.

no i am not speaking og 100 % of all Norwegians but maybe 80%.

 

[kosmonaut]

Re: Re:

...
All this doesn't necessarily make him cleans though.

ehm..duh..
otherwise good post.
This Ørn guy is also Bystrom's mentor, isn't he?
Seems he has a good nose for talent.

Ehm duh, that was sort of the point.
Yep, he helps Stavanger SK, Coop-ØsterHus and the national team.

no i am not speaking og 100 % of all Norwegians but maybe 80%.

That's the embarrassing part.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

This Ørn guy is also Bystrom's mentor, isn't he?
Seems he has a good nose for talent.
Yep, he helps Stavanger SK, Coop-ØsterHus and the national team.

what a coincidence that said Stein Ørn is not just a talent spotter, but also a, quote
"Ph.D, specialist in internal medicine and cardiovascular diseases and physician at the cardiological department at Stavanger University Hospital."
unquote.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stein_%C3%98rn

 

[kosmonaut]

Re: Re:

This Ørn guy is also Bystrom's mentor, isn't he?
Seems he has a good nose for talent.
Yep, he helps Stavanger SK, Coop-ØsterHus and the national team.

what a coincidence that said Stein Ørn is not just a talent spotter, but also a, quote
"Ph.D, specialist in internal medicine and cardiovascular diseases and physician at the cardiological department at Stavanger University Hospital."
unquote.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stein_%C3%98rn

It's quite a coincident

 

[bjorn]

I wonder how this post will look like after Sunday P-R.... because Stein Ørn just say that Kristoff would be in even better form for that race.(he called it supercompansation). as i by my self have feeled . 7 days after a very hard race i do å personal record in my training coarse.

Yes his Step father is a doctor and have been training him from early age.

how many other country have national training and test centre for their top attletes?

Of all i know and talk with i don't know a single one that think that doping is ok.
is this the same in all other country?

 

[kosmonaut]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

Never tested positive. I like their credibility.

It is irrefutable, look at that nice Mr Armstrong.
All round top guy.




Speaking as a Brit, when someone says that <nationality> will not dope, they are quite frankly full of it. I have heard it many times on this forum about the Brits, each time it makes me cringe.

Kristoff may or may not be doping, I have no opinion either way really but his nationality has little to do with if he is. The environment he is in (Team wise) is probably more relevant.

Once he got to and held Terpstra's wheel in RVV he was a shoe in for the win.