Kristoff

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Re:

I wonder how this post will look like after Sunday P-R.... because Stein Ørn just say that Kristoff would be in even better form for that race.(he called it supercompansation). as i by my self have feeled . 7 days after a very hard race i do å personal record in my training coarse.

"Supercompensation"? Wow, groundbreaking stuff. The Norwegians obviously have a real jump on the rest of the world. Maybe in a few years other countries will start to catch up, but only once they get on board with this supercompensation.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

this guy is ridiculous

he is doped so high that he can afford to waste energy on all kind of shitty races without fear

probably his hematocrit right now is near 60% and full of steroids and other stuff

i hope he doesn't die in his sleep

what evidence do you have? As a sky fan I thought you knew that before asking questions about doping you need evidence.

 

[Pentacycle]

Re: Re:

this guy is ridiculous

he is doped so high that he can afford to waste energy on all kind of shitty races without fear

probably his hematocrit right now is near 60% and full of steroids and other stuff

i hope he doesn't die in his sleep

what evidence do you have? As a sky fan I thought you knew that before asking questions about doping you need evidence.

Wait, you think he is a Sky fan?

 

[meat puppet]

Re: Re:

"Supercompensation"? Wow, groundbreaking stuff. The Norwegians obviously have a real jump on the rest of the world. Maybe in a few years other countries will start to catch up, but only once they get on board with this supercompensation.

Indeed, deep stuff this supercompensation. Wonder what happens when the others get to know it and utilise it.

 

[Pentacycle]

Re:

I still don't get those who compare him to Gilbert '11.

The comparison is far fetched, I know. Completely different riders. However, Kristoff might as well win Roubaix, take the cobble stage in the Tour and yellow, and to top it off win the Worlds. He's already shown that he can peak for months. On his terrain there are only a few top riders that may currently match and beat him in a sprint, like a good Boonen, Sagan or Degenkolb. Let's see if the dominance continues.

 

[burning]

Re:

I wonder how this post will look like after Sunday P-R.... because Stein Ørn just say that Kristoff would be in even better form for that race.(he called it supercompansation). as i by my self have feeled . 7 days after a very hard race i do å personal record in my training coarse.

Yes his Step father is a doctor and have been training him from early age.

how many other country have national training and test centre for their top attletes?

Of all i know and talk with i don't know a single one that think that doping is ok.
is this the same in all other country?

Oh my god, this coach is even more ridiculous than Brailsford.

 

[ToreBear]

Oh my... that´s a new low. Don´t even know where to start to hack away at the Norges coming out of nowhere defending their "clean" riders/athletes. Oh my... even "veteran" posters who should know better by now trap (like "ToreBear")...
Lolz @ better genetics, better training, and else we heard before...
But we have new entries: "Norwegians have better ethics" & "Norwegians are the least tested positive" (as evidence, wiki was linked).
Wow, that is new. I am stunned. I seldom accuse somebody of trolling (AFAIK, I never did before)... but this thread qualifies for it, as a whole.
You can get fooled once (Festina), twice (Puerto), may even three+ times (LA, etc.)... but after all those years and scandals, some people still think their countries athletes dope less or not at all!? Omg! I can only quote Einstein, because I am otherwise speechless: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

You called my name dear?

I can't remember defending anyone, all I did was explain to a poster about the discourse in this forum. And I answered a question posted by Hitch.

As for your post. I think you are saying that every country is just as bad as the next, and that every sport is as bad as cycling. I disagree on both points. Cycling is unique for a number of reasons.

As for every country is as bad as the next. Lets say country A spends a lot of money per capita on antidoping, while country B doesn't. You would think that all that money spent would have at least some effect on the prevalence of doping behavior for country A vs. country B.

Thats just one factor, there are many more differences between countries.

Take one study on track and field and the "Prevalence of Blood Doping in Samples Collected from Elite Track and Field Athletes":
http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762.full

RESULTS: In addition to an expected difference between endurance and nonendurance athletes, we found nationality to be the major factor of heterogeneity. Estimates of the prevalence of blood doping ranged from 1% to 48% for subpopulations of samples and a mean of 14% for the entire study population. Extreme cases of secondary polycythemia highlighted the health risks associated with blood manipulations.

In Igrish, it means that apart from endurance vs nonendurance athletes, Nationality is the major factor that separates dopers from non dopers. I.e. You have dirty countries and more or less clean countries.

So why is there such a difference between countries? The simplistic and easy answer is culture. But that is just a simplistic answer for all the factors that go into creating a culture and maintaining that culture.

As for Norwegian genetics being different, meh. There might be something interesting there due to the remoteness of the population, but the science is nowhere near giving any answers one way or the other. I think the environment provides enough answers, and if I live long enough for the science to answer these questions, I would be surprised if genetics played any real role.


Any more questions you want me to answer dearest Foxy?

 

[robow7]

Wow, I wish I had those recuperative powers, you win a 160 mile race with your face in the wind a bunch of the time and then come back a mere couple days later and outsprint the pack. Dayum he's good.

 

[Pulp]

Re:

Wow, I wish I had those recuperative powers, you win a 160 mile race with your face in the wind a bunch of the time and then come back a mere couple days later and outsprint the pack. Dayum he's good.

A pack of 10-15 riders with no top sprinters in it....

 

[Felice Gimondi]

For my norwegian friends on VGD-sykkel whom I know read frequently on the Clinic:

This is "WillyVoet"

I have been blocked due to recent discussion on VGD. Feel free to communicate this to others on the forum and, if you whish, hold MOD responsible for unfair and unjust doings. I will however not return.

Wish you tailwinds and sunshine!

WV.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

"Supercompensation"? Wow, groundbreaking stuff. The Norwegians obviously have a real jump on the rest of the world. Maybe in a few years other countries will start to catch up, but only once they get on board with this supercompensation.

Indeed, deep stuff this supercompensation. Wonder what happens when the others get to know it and utilise it.

For those new to cycling and therefore not getting the joke: They're being sarcastic because Supercompensation is a very basic principle of fitness. It would be like saying 'oh he's going to win by pedalling faster? that's genius'

 

[twisted pairs]

I hate feeding the trolls ... but some Scandinavians have a distinct genetic advantage over everyone else. See the following vintage paper;

Truncated erythropoietin receptor causes dominantly inherited benign human erythrocytosis
(translation: some people carry a mutant EPO gene that results in naturally high hematocrit levels)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC46538/pdf/pnas01462-0175.pdf

From the text:
"The clinical condition is so mild that many affected individuals are not themselves aware of any abnormality, nor do they have any sense of illness. The clinical and laboratory findings based on the study of 25 affected and 72 unaffected family members can be summarized as follows (15). Hb is remarkably high: mean male value, 204 g/liter; range, 183-231 g/liter (normal: mean, 154; range, 136-174); mean female value, 191 g/liter; range, 177-200 g/liter (normal: mean, 138; range, 124-153)."

"The proband, a 53-year-old male, whose Hb level has been 200 g/liter or greater since childhood (last
measurement, 236 g/liter), has been one of the best cross country skiers in the world, having won three Olympic gold medals and two world championships."

The skier in question is Eero Antero Mäntyranta.

50% hematocrit level is approximately 165 g/liter Hb.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

I hate feeding the trolls ... but some Scandinavians have a distinct genetic advantage over everyone else. See the following vintage paper;

Truncated erythropoietin receptor causes dominantly inherited benign human erythrocytosis
(translation: some people carry a mutant EPO gene that results in naturally high hematocrit levels)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC46538/pdf/pnas01462-0175.pdf

From the text:
"The clinical condition is so mild that many affected individuals are not themselves aware of any abnormality, nor do they have any sense of illness. The clinical and laboratory findings based on the study of 25 affected and 72 unaffected family members can be summarized as follows (15). Hb is remarkably high: mean male value, 204 g/liter; range, 183-231 g/liter (normal: mean, 154; range, 136-174); mean female value, 191 g/liter; range, 177-200 g/liter (normal: mean, 138; range, 124-153)."

"The proband, a 53-year-old male, whose Hb level has been 200 g/liter or greater since childhood (last
measurement, 236 g/liter), has been one of the best cross country skiers in the world, having won three Olympic gold medals and two world championships."

The skier in question is Eero Antero Mäntyranta.

50% hematocrit level is approximately 165 g/liter Hb.

We're in the age of EPO. A naturally high HcT is a disadvantage. Someone like that is likely to be at the back of the pack....unless they have a 'medically proven' high HcT that turns out to be ***, like Riccò

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Re: Re:

It would be like saying 'oh he's going to win by pedalling faster? that's genius'

Made LA and Coach Comical (to a lesser degree) rich men. Sigh...

 

[Velo1ticker]

Re: Re:

"Supercompensation"? Wow, groundbreaking stuff. The Norwegians obviously have a real jump on the rest of the world. Maybe in a few years other countries will start to catch up, but only once they get on board with this supercompensation.

Indeed, deep stuff this supercompensation. Wonder what happens when the others get to know it and utilise it.

For those new to cycling and therefore not getting the joke: They're being sarcastic because Supercompensation is a very basic principle of fitness. It would be like saying 'oh he's going to win by pedalling faster? that's genius'

I think you need the context. Most top P-R cyclists do not ride Panne and Alex has did that three days race to get the supercomp. It was more like a what kind of preperations and why Alex do certain races, not a cure for cancer. Supercomp is so well known that they did not expain what it is. This type of comments are typical for morons that desperatly want to make up "evidence".

 

[twisted pairs]

Re: Re:

We're in the age of EPO. A naturally high HcT is a disadvantage. Someone like that is likely to be at the back of the pack....unless they have a 'medically proven' high HcT that turns out to be ***, like Riccò

This is well beyond "naturally high HcT"

Then again, I imagine anyone with this genetic anomaly would fail the 50% test unless exempt.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Re: Re:

"Supercompensation"? Wow, groundbreaking stuff. The Norwegians obviously have a real jump on the rest of the world. Maybe in a few years other countries will start to catch up, but only once they get on board with this supercompensation.

Indeed, deep stuff this supercompensation. Wonder what happens when the others get to know it and utilise it.

For those new to cycling and therefore not getting the joke: They're being sarcastic because Supercompensation is a very basic principle of fitness. It would be like saying 'oh he's going to win by pedalling faster? that's genius'

I think you need the context. Most top P-R cyclists do not ride Panne and Alex has did that three days race to get the supercomp. It was more like a what kind of preperations and why Alex do certain races, not a cure for cancer. Supercomp is so well known that they did not expain what it is. This type of comments are typical for morons that desperatly want to make up "evidence".

Since you have 3 people quoted above, I'm still trying to figure out if I'm the moron.

 

[bjorn]

ok i got it . in this forum a good cyclist is a bad cyclist.
in the general forum a good cyclist is a good cyclist
if you are on the wrong team you are a doper.
if you are form russia you are a doper....
if yours parents are doctors you are a doper.
Ok i want to think that there is less dopers in the cycling field now than for just a few years ago.
I was not sorry when armstrong/kjærgård/Ris/ got caught ... everybody knew it... i want all the dopers away from top sports.
If kristoff is a doper i would feel really bad. like many of you did when armstrong was caught.
Anyway when doping is away from sports it is down to talent and who have the guts to do the job...
A lot of training over many years.down to small details.....
but there is many way to look at this at. when a athlete are given a advantage over other is it a sort of doping?
like the big Wax team for the norwegian skiers!
like special bikes that are given a certain advantages.
what about high house(thinn ear)not allowed in Norway

but here in this forum there are some that are saying without the slightest evidence you are a doper because of the result you got.
i thing that it is time to cool down ...

telling me that i am a troll because i want a possessive test at least a small evidence for that something is wrong before the hammer is going to the table . is telling more of the way this forum is going than the way the sport is going.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

If kristoff is a doper i would feel really bad. like many of you did when armstrong was caught.

Hahaha. It's the small details like this that really make or break a character, so well done.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

ok i got it . in this forum a good cyclist is a bad cyclist.
in the general forum a good cyclist is a good cyclist
if you are on the wrong team you are a doper.
if you are form russia you are a doper....
if yours parents are doctors you are a doper.
Ok i want to think that there is less dopers in the cycling field now than for just a few years ago.
I was not sorry when armstrong/kjærgård/Ris/ got caught ... everybody knew it... i want all the dopers away from top sports.
If kristoff is a doper i would feel really bad. like many of you did when armstrong was caught.
Anyway when doping is away from sports it is down to talent and who have the guts to do the job...
A lot of training over many years.down to small details.....
but there is many way to look at this at. when a athlete are given a advantage over other is it a sort of doping?
like the big Wax team for the norwegian skiers!
like special bikes that are given a certain advantages.
what about high house(thinn ear)not allowed in Norway

but here in this forum there are some that are saying without the slightest evidence you are a doper because of the result you got.
i thing that it is time to cool down ...

telling me that i am a troll because i want a possessive test at least a small evidence for that something is wrong before the hammer is going to the table . is telling more of the way this forum is going than the way the sport is going.

Agreed. There is no evidence, and with every test Kristoff passes, he becomes more likely to be cleans. Once he reaches the magical 500 negative test results threshold, his cleansliness will be beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

If kristoff is a doper i would feel really bad. like many of you did when armstrong was caught.

And there it is... Thanks for trolling by!

 

[neineinei]

I can't remember defending anyone, all I did was explain to a poster about the discourse in this forum. And I answered a question posted by Hitch.

As for your post. I think you are saying that every country is just as bad as the next, and that every sport is as bad as cycling. I disagree on both points. Cycling is unique for a number of reasons.

As for every country is as bad as the next. Lets say country A spends a lot of money per capita on antidoping, while country B doesn't. You would think that all that money spent would have at least some effect on the prevalence of doping behavior for country A vs. country B.

Thats just one factor, there are many more differences between countries.

Take one study on track and field and the "Prevalence of Blood Doping in Samples Collected from Elite Track and Field Athletes":
http://www.clinchem.org/content/57/5/762.full

RESULTS: In addition to an expected difference between endurance and nonendurance athletes, we found nationality to be the major factor of heterogeneity. Estimates of the prevalence of blood doping ranged from 1% to 48% for subpopulations of samples and a mean of 14% for the entire study population. Extreme cases of secondary polycythemia highlighted the health risks associated with blood manipulations.

In Igrish, it means that apart from endurance vs nonendurance athletes, Nationality is the major factor that separates dopers from non dopers. I.e. You have dirty countries and more or less clean countries.

So why is there such a difference between countries? The simplistic and easy answer is culture. But that is just a simplistic answer for all the factors that go into creating a culture and maintaining that culture.

As for Norwegian genetics being different, meh. There might be something interesting there due to the remoteness of the population, but the science is nowhere near giving any answers one way or the other. I think the environment provides enough answers, and if I live long enough for the science to answer these questions, I would be surprised if genetics played any real role.

The country with 48% blood doping is Russia.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

The bridge's occupant has returned?

Great work wonderlance. Good to see the signature convenient spelling mistakes again. Love the profile name choice.

The diction improves as the post count increases. Unfortunate but telling.

Are you guys insinuating that bjork is really a cover profile for a banned/other user? It's that or something way over my head... So cryptic.

No. I said its similar to Wonderlance. viewtopic.php?p=398376#p398376

Not serious. Deliberate spelling mistakes. Not insulting people and being funny.

I think over the last few pages people are slowly realizing this is the case

 

[neineinei]

Kristoff is perfectly able of defending himself. I suggest the journalists starts asking him about doping. Unlike a certain Hushovd Kristoff has answered doping related questions about people on his team like Ekimov, Zabel, Galimzyanov, the BMC EPO soigneur etc. Ask him, maybe for once you won't be blacklisted.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

No. I said its similar to Wonderlance. viewtopic.php?p=398376#p398376

Not serious. Deliberate spelling mistakes. Not insulting people and being funny.

I think over the last few pages people are slowly realizing this is the case

That was a refreshingly hilarious read... Thanks!