Vuelta a España La Vuelta Femenina 2023 (1st-7th May)

[Red Rick]

In general, the race is on from the moment the flag has been dropped and until the finish line. Only exception being official neutralisation.

As Jørgen Leth would say, it's not a tea party.

Not the biggest fan of attacking after any crash when the race isn't on, cause it takes away from the actual racing part and sort of turns into a 'who dodges bad luck' or 'who has the least enemies' contest.

This was just self inflicted though.

 

[jmdirt]

Thanks for the fill ins! I only read the report, I didn't see the race that's why I was asking.

 

[ice&fire]

Thanks for the fill ins! I only read the report, I didn't see the race that's why I was asking.

The split happened before there were live images.

 

[awavey]

In general, the race is on from the moment the flag has been dropped and until the finish line. Only exception being official neutralisation.

As Jørgen Leth would say, it's not a tea party.

thats true, but then expect no favours on tomorrows stage would be my warning, what goes around, comes around.

I dont think it was a cross winds situation today, and the unwritten rule in cycling racing is you should respect the leaders jersey, ymmv how much you think that was done today, but its unwritten so the race is on the moment the flag is dropped right

and I know people are chucking up the puncture from the TdFF as a "that makes it equal", I dont think AvVs mechanicals were the same, because I dont think the unwritten rules say you can never attack the leaders jersey rider for a mechanical like that, and tbf half the group Vollering was with then baulked at it so the group never took any major advantage from it, having a pee stop is a whole level different.

because you are basically saying the leader can never stop for a pee now if another team thinks they can take advantage from it.

 

[awavey]

okay so basically only van Vleuten is a rival anyway? I mean, yeah, maybe that is indeed so, that would be very sad for women's cycling...
but then at least stay glued to van Vleuten's wheel and do everything to get back to her if you're "dropped", instead of whatever that was today...

well Id park whatever that was today on the race jury and what Movistar and Trek decided to do. that still means Canyon Sram werent in the mix were they ?

Sdworx get caught out, Movistar and Trek make hay while the sun shines, and we are still not talking about a Canyon Sram rider in the finish.

maybe if Kasia was glued to Vleutens wheel more often she'd be in that position to make those important moves.

 

[Bonimenier]

thats true, but then expect no favours on tomorrows stage would be my warning, what goes around, comes around.

I dont think it was a cross winds situation today, and the unwritten rule in cycling racing is you should respect the leaders jersey, ymmv how much you think that was done today, but its unwritten so the race is on the moment the flag is dropped right

and I know people are chucking up the puncture from the TdFF as a "that makes it equal", I dont think AvVs mechanicals were the same, because I dont think the unwritten rules say you can never attack the leaders jersey rider for a mechanical like that, and tbf half the group Vollering was with then baulked at it so the group never took any major advantage from it, having a pee stop is a whole level different.

because you are basically saying the leader can never stop for a pee now if another team thinks they can take advantage from it.

It could be argued that riding when the leader has a mechanical is worse than riding when the leader goes for a pee break. In most cases a mechanical happens totally out of control of the rider. Deciding when and where to take a pee break is completely up to choice of the rider.

 

[Gratemans]

There's a number of things adding up to me having exactly zero sympathy for Vollering's point of view here.
- They themselves took advantage of a mechanical earlier (and I fully agree with what @Bonimenier said bout that)
- There actually were crosswinds coming up shortly, so taking a pee at that specific point was just dumb
- I hate people whining. I get she's frustrated, but de facto accusing your competitors of unsportsmanlike behaviour isn't really classy either (especially in the context of my first point)

 

[Skalman]

The tactics of Sdworx is baffling, is everyone on that team just ride for themselves? (much like the Dutch at the Worlds historically) I dont like Vollering one bit but she is number one so where are her team mates, why dosent anyone help her pace her back, Reusser helped little in the end it but looked very half arsed . Really hard to understand . I know Vollering Routinely attacks with a team mate up the road and bringing other riders into the mix that wouldn't even be there if there wasn't for Vollering closing the gap to her team mates, maybe they are fed up

 

[jmdirt]

It could be argued that riding when the leader has a mechanical is worse than riding when the leader goes for a pee break. In most cases a mechanical happens totally out of control of the rider. Deciding when and where to take a pee break is completely up to choice of the rider.

Unless you have my bladder!

In seriousness though, if you have to pee, you have to pee.

 

[SafeBet]

thats true, but then expect no favours on tomorrows stage would be my warning, what goes around, comes around.

I dont think it was a cross winds situation today, and the unwritten rule in cycling racing is you should respect the leaders jersey, ymmv how much you think that was done today, but its unwritten so the race is on the moment the flag is dropped right

and I know people are chucking up the puncture from the TdFF as a "that makes it equal", I dont think AvVs mechanicals were the same, because I dont think the unwritten rules say you can never attack the leaders jersey rider for a mechanical like that, and tbf half the group Vollering was with then baulked at it so the group never took any major advantage from it, having a pee stop is a whole level different.

because you are basically saying the leader can never stop for a pee now if another team thinks they can take advantage from it.

A leader can pee in his/her pants if afraid of being attacked. It's a bike race, not a school trip.

 

[Dk one]

The tactics of Sdworx is baffling, is everyone on that team just ride for themselves? (much like the Dutch at the Worlds historically) I dont like Vollering one bit but she is number one so where are her team mates, why dosent anyone help her pace her back, Reusser helped little in the end it but looked very half arsed . Really hard to understand . I know Vollering Routinely attacks with a team mate up the road and bringing other riders into the mix that wouldn't even be there if there wasn't for Vollering closing the gap to her team mates, maybe they are fed up

Speaking of worlds, I guess this year might be even worse chemistry and coherende wise for the Dutch nt if Vollering has major beef with AvV. And worse than usual is saying a lot.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The tactics of Sdworx is baffling, is everyone on that team just ride for themselves? (much like the Dutch at the Worlds historically) I dont like Vollering one bit but she is number one so where are her team mates, why dosent anyone help her pace her back, Reusser helped little in the end it but looked very half arsed . Really hard to understand . I know Vollering Routinely attacks with a team mate up the road and bringing other riders into the mix that wouldn't even be there if there wasn't for Vollering closing the gap to her team mates, maybe they are fed up

van der Breggen's DSing has come in for a lot of stick so far, I think a lot of it is that she was just so strong as a rider - and SD Worx are so OP as a team - that actual tactical decisions haven't mattered much so far. We've had teammates chasing teammates, suspiciously synchronised roadblocks, Kopecky proving to be the best team player since John Gadret, the team leader making the pace on the flat before an uphill finish, chasing down their own breaks and all manner of wacky counterintuitive Volta a Portugal nonsense, but because of how strong Kopecky, Reusser, Vollering and Wiebes have been they've absolutely dominated the season and people haven't challenged them so much so perhaps lessons are still yet to be learned on that front.

 

[Monte Serra]

Speaking of worlds, I guess this year might be even worse chemistry and coherende wise for the Dutch nt if Vollering has major beef with AvV. And worse than usual is saying a lot.

The course in Glasgow is probably more suitable for Vos and Wiebes, than Vollering and Van Vleuten. But I get your point. I would argue that the internal cohesion in the Dutch team went south when Vollering became one of the main players. She was hesitant do any work in Tokyo, and was also quite self-obsessed in Leuven.

 

[Salvarani]

A leader can pee in his/her pants if afraid of being attacked. It's a bike race, not a school trip.

I could be totally misremembering but I think Emma Johansson said something about this when she was co-commentating a race a few years ago in my country. That she have had to do that at some point, when the race was on and there was just no other way... it was either that or give up the race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Damn, seems to be some hate on Demi as a disruptor of team unity! I'd say the Olympics was more that Gunnewijk in the team car is an ex teammate of Vos and van Vleuten, and the fact the team had nothing but chiefs and no Indians plus her loyalty to her buddies overrode common sense a bit, they saw Vollering as the nearest thing to an expendable rider. Let's not forget that the Dutch had a long tradition of blowing their advantages well before Demi was about - take for example Baku in 2015 where they had two in the group of four and then van der Breggen kept dropping van Dijk and ended up losing a sprint to Amialiusik and Niewiadoma of all people, or several World Championships before that. It's only from the Olympics in 2016 when van Vleuten mark T-1000 was born that they start actually stringing together the results their rider levels require, and even then it was often just through simple bludgeoning strength like van der Breggen at Innsbruck or van Vleuten at Harrogate that it happened. Vollering is just inheriting the mantle as part of that top-heavy apparatus.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah animosity within the Dutch team is also just a symptom of the dominance they've had.

 

[BR2]

I also didn't get the impression that Vollering is an unpleasant person. It's just this arrogance that a team starts to have when they usually win everything and think they are entitled to win / when there are so many leaders in the team that it just seems to be about who wins. The team (DS, bosses) need to decide what's the hierarchy and who needs to work when. Of course it would be great if the riders could do that themselves, but if they don't I think it's human and someone not full of personal ambition and adrenaline needs to make the calls.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Great champions are not always just characterised by their ability to get big wins, but also by how they manage to bounce back after defeats and disappointments. Van Vleuten proved that again yesterday, and we'll see if Vollering herself can turn things around once more. It might not happen today already, but I'm sure she'll be eager to reclaim the throne when we get to the Tour.

Regarding the tactics of SD Worx, it's not like Stam and Boom have come across as tactical geniuses either, so I wouldn't put too much blame on Van der Breggen.

 

[BR2]

Great champions are not always just characterised by their ability to get big wins, but also by how they manage to bounce back after defeats and disappointments. Van Vleuten proved that again yesterday, and we'll see if Vollering herself can turn things around once more. It might not happen today already, but I'm sure she'll be eager to reclaim the throne when we get to the Tour.

Regarding the tactics of SD Worx, it's not like Stam and Boom have come across as tactical geniuses either, so I wouldn't put too much blame on Van der Breggen.

There are definitely baffling decisions in women's cycling all around. I have never followed it as much as this season, though, so can't really compare to other times. The team that really convinces me tactically this season is Trek.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

After how we've seen the race blow apart over the last couple of days, I'm a bit hesitant to rule out that major action could happen before Covadonga. The last 5 km of Collada Mohandi are not easy.

But LdC itself is of course such a beast, that it could neutralise the racing prior to it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Fito (the traditional precursor to Covadonga in La Vuelta Masculina) would probably have created carnage in women's cycling, as would Los Bedules (used in the 2021 stage) but I'm not so sure about Mohandí. Not among the 'bigs' though. It may dislodge some of the people who are struggling for form now, probably the most important thing may be if Lippert gets over it because she's struggled the last couple of days as her form runs out post-Ardennes and if she doesn't then Annemiek may be isolated and then SD Worx can try to play havoc to set Demi up. I'd be tempted to send her up the road on Mohandí to ward against that if I'm in the Movistar car . Canyon have three cards to play but none of which I'm especially trusting of here; Bauernfeind is unproven, Chabbey I think would need to win from a break and unless that time she dropped late in the stage yesterday was to save energy for that, then I'm not convinced she has the legs, while Niewiadoma, when will I ever learn in the prediction game - she's a very good climber but seems to be better in that mid-range kind of climb, the 4-8km kind of distance, and tends to suffer more on the longer ones. The real question is, how much can Realini gain? She looked so good in Abu Dhabi, but she's far less proven than Annemiek or Demi, how much did yesterday take from her?

 

[ice&fire]

Looking at the time schedule they are expected to be climbing Mohandi by the time we get live TV.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Reckon it was planned by the team - She'd done a tonne of work

Looking at the time schedule they are expected to be climbing Mohandi by the time we get live TV.

Not such goods news, missed some much of what happened yesterday before live coverage.

Anyway ,optimistic as always I,m expecting today to be a classic battle.

 

[Red Rick]

Fito (the traditional precursor to Covadonga in La Vuelta Masculina) would probably have created carnage in women's cycling, as would Los Bedules (used in the 2021 stage) but I'm not so sure about Mohandí. Not among the 'bigs' though. It may dislodge some of the people who are struggling for form now, probably the most important thing may be if Lippert gets over it because she's struggled the last couple of days as her form runs out post-Ardennes and if she doesn't then Annemiek may be isolated and then SD Worx can try to play havoc to set Demi up. I'd be tempted to send her up the road on Mohandí to ward against that if I'm in the Movistar car . Canyon have three cards to play but none of which I'm especially trusting of here; Bauernfeind is unproven, Chabbey I think would need to win from a break and unless that time she dropped late in the stage yesterday was to save energy for that, then I'm not convinced she has the legs, while Niewiadoma, when will I ever learn in the prediction game - she's a very good climber but seems to be better in that mid-range kind of climb, the 4-8km kind of distance, and tends to suffer more on the longer ones. The real question is, how much can Realini gain? She looked so good in Abu Dhabi, but she's far less proven than Annemiek or Demi, how much did yesterday take from her?

I was super impressed by how easily Realini closed down AVV once they were on the climb.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They're just trolling Chabbey by making her wear the polka dot jersey, which she once again won't win.

Gladys Verhulst, Kathrin Hammes and Margot Pompanon have a small gap at the moment.