LA - when will it all be over for you?

[benzwire]

Just like this horrible, bad fight scene never seems to end, this bad scene will play on forever. Lance is like a bad John Carpenter film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MVMbm6c0k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You are so correct. That movie is so bad it's good!

 

[LauraLyn]

Regarding Lance, for me it will take a "blue dress" moment, like when Clinton realized they had indisputable proof that he had sex with Lewinsky. Up until then, he denied, denied, denied. Once he realized there was a dress with DNA, he had no other choice but to admit it.
Similarly Lance is going to continue to avoid questions and deny indefinitely until the proof is so strong, there is no possible way he couldn't have doped and he'll have to come clean.
What will that take? I don't know. Maybe Brunyeel spilling all the beans? I don't see Lance ever admitting to anything unless the evidence is indisputable.

A confession would be the best for everyone. But I don't see a "blue dress" moment happening for Armstrong. He is simply not capable of it.

Bruyneel will never give up the goods. He will never go to arbitration. One small hope is Marti. But it is tiny. And no matter what happens there, Armstrong will never "confess".

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not a big fan of corruption.

For me, Lance has been exposed as a fraud... and while I am looking forward to seeing the evidence I don't think there will be much there that isn't already known.

Sounds like Tyler's book is poised to blow a few minds.

McQuaid, his brother, his kid and everybody cozy with him need to be tossed from the sport forever. Verbruggen too. Riis, Bruyneel... probably Lefevere and any other long time corrupt DS need to go away.

While we are cleaning up the UCI we may as well take the drug testing away from them as this just leads to more corruption.

I'm somewhat optimistic that this is the beginning of the end for the really outrageous period in cycling... although Sky at the TdF seems to be a set back.

I guess we will see. Someone up thread said it will be over when doping becomes a personal choice and not.... institutional. I agree with that.

 

[MarkvW]

Similar to the 'when did it start for you?' poll, I'm wondering when people will think this is over.

Why do I ask? Well, I find myself thinking this isn't over yet; despite the USADA sanction, despite public opinion starting slowly to change, despite there seemingly being a growing will on the wider media's part to publish 'Lance doped' stories... I think I'll only know it's over when that incident happens.

So, when is it over for you? What will it take? UCI to agree the sanction? SCA to get their money back? Or perhaps it is already over for you? I sure as hell don't think we'll ever see an admission!

When USADA publicly presents its evidence it's over for me, although I will enjoy following a qui tam lawsuit (if one happens).

 

[LauraLyn]

When USADA publicly presents its evidence it's over for me, although I will enjoy following a qui tam lawsuit (if one happens).

Icing on the cake.

 

[AcademyCC]

For me Armstrong's case is over when the evidence comes out. Hopefully this will wake enough fan boys from their trance so as Lance can't still make a living off the masses. Unfortunately some don't care he doped and some have a malfunction in their brain that stops them from seeing the truth.

I'd like to see JB get a good boot in the balls as well.

The big fish for me is the UCI. I want to see Hein McQuaid outed as a corrupt liar and forced to resign. Its great Lance is being dismantled but unless the UCI is forced to adopt some serious changes were kind of back at square one.

 

[Orvieto]

It will be over for me when
a. UCI and ASO formally remove his name from the list of winners
b. a current Grand Tour contender speaks out against him by name
c. he pays back some prize money or some of his lawsuit winnings
It's got to hurt him in the record books, the prestige of the peloton and his wallet.
That being said, Armstrong is only one actor in the US Postal conspiracy.

I need to see Bruyneel sanctioned and if the UCI coverups are proven I need to see heads roll there.

 

[LauraLyn]

It will be over for me when
a. UCI and ASO formally remove his name from the list of winners
b. a current Grand Tour contender speaks out against him by name
c. he pays back some prize money or some of his lawsuit winnings
It's got to hurt him in the record books, the prestige of the peloton and his wallet.
That being said, Armstrong is only one actor in the US Postal conspiracy.

I need to see Bruyneel sanctioned and if the UCI coverups are proven I need to see heads roll there.

All safe bets.

 

[Race Radio]

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/armstrongs-marketing-flame-extinguished.html/

Now he’s ranked 2,192 (out of 2,500 celebrities tracked by the Dallas agency) on par with Michael Bolton.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

Brits will be used to media references to 'the disgraced ....'; such as 'the disgraced former banker Fred Goodwin'; 'the disgraced former Lord Archer' etc.

Seeing 'the disgraced.....' prefix LA will do for me.

 

[Cycle Chic]

I wonder if Lance will totally spill the whole beans....bring down the whole lot of them .....why wouldnt he do that ? is it because like Landis and Hamilton he would be persona non gratis ? but maybe he would come out of it as the hero who cleaned up cycling.

 

[hiero2]

Man what is this fascination with the Tour de France. It's part of the reason this whole shebang happened in the first place. Ultimate power and all that, you know? You pretenders need to get some Paris-Roubaix into you or something, a real race for real men. There's a beautiful season to enjoy, not just 3 weeks in July. ffs.

It will be over for me when any pro rider can talk openly about doping in sport.

And when they do, they show disdain for it.

When the UCI has been put into a role worthy of its station.

When an independent drug testing organisation has the reins of keeping the peloton clean.

When JV's "we're clean" talk gets smacked down coz it's nothing special, not because it's hard to swallow.

+1 (10 characters)

 

[hiero2]

I wonder if Lance will totally spill the whole beans....bring down the whole lot of them .....why wouldnt he do that ? is it because like Landis and Hamilton he would be persona non gratis ? but maybe he would come out of it as the hero who cleaned up cycling.

Doesn't fit Lance's character. He really thinks he is better than everyone else, and he does things that where he can control the outcome. He staked a claim, so anyone saying otherwise threatens that claim, and now he has to defend the territory. I don't think he would be capable of the kind of flexibility that you suggest. It would be a diabolical flexibility, but it could be effective. However, most tyrannical types, such as he is coming out to be - reach some point of personal world-view reality that supports their dominance, and they never manage to leave that personal world-view reality. This may sound harsh, but read current interviews with people like Idi Amin and other dictators long after they were deposed. They never admit that they were wrong - they still believe they were right, and doing the right thing. That sort of dominant personality has something wrong with their world-view - it is never balanced. Once it has become dominant, they can't, or won't, change it.

 

[LauraLyn]

I wonder if Lance will totally spill the whole beans....bring down the whole lot of them .....why wouldnt he do that ? is it because like Landis and Hamilton he would be persona non gratis ? but maybe he would come out of it as the hero who cleaned up cycling.

Agree with Heiro.

And now it is probably too late. Even a confession won't save him.

He must know that he is wrong, that he is lying. But he believes as long as he can lie and get away with it it is ok.

His last moment to redeem himself was 10 days ago when he had to decide to arbitrate or not. I don't think he realized he was being thrown under the bus.

Also, even if he did realize it, he saw no way out. He could no longer confess on his own terms. He would have to do this on USADA terms, and he doesn't have the character for that.

In short, agree with Heiro. But your wondering is really the right wondering.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...
The big fish for me is the UCI. I want to see Hein McQuaid outed as a corrupt liar and forced to resign. Its great Lance is being dismantled but unless the UCI is forced to adopt some serious changes were kind of back at square one.

Agreed.

More to this and maybe I already posted this, but it's got to be the case where 99% of athletes would examine doping for a split second, not do it and then not give it a second thought. Along the lines of the athlete's response being similar to, "No. Are you f**king crazy?" There's always going to be a cheater like Armstrong poisoning sports, but any sport has to recognize doping as a kind of poison and deal with it severely.

Inside weekend warrior competitive cycling in the U.S., we are not even close. I've come around to the idea that amateur doping needs to be a one positive and you are out rule. There will be a false positive. But, amateurs who got a false positive still have non-WADA options.

Long, long way to go after Armstrong and it goes all the way into the IOC.

 

[BroDeal]

Doesn't fit Lance's character.

I disagree. I think it fits Armstrong's personality perfectly. He has always been a sore loser and loyalty is always a one way street with him. If it is to his advantage, I do not think he would hesitate to throw Verbruggen or anyone else to the wolves. If he could portray the entire sport as corrupt then it makes him one dirty player among many. He can spin that to his advantage.

His problem is that he continues to dig the hole deeper. You would think that he would make allowances that would give him an out at some point in the future, but his ego will not let him do that. It will take something big in his own mind to force him to change course. Becoming publicly irrelevant or the butt of jokes might do it eventually.

 

[LauraLyn]

I disagree. I think it fits Armstrong's personality perfectly. He has always been a sore loser and loyalty is always a one way street with him. If it is to his advantage, I do not think he would hesitate to throw Verbruggen or anyone else to the wolves. If he could portray the entire sport as corrupt then it makes him one dirty player among many. He can spin that to his advantage.

His problem is that he continues to dig the hole deeper. You would think that he would make allowances that would give him an out at some point in the future, but his ego will not let him do that. It will take something big in his own mind to force him to change course. Becoming publicly irrelevant or the butt of jokes might do it eventually.

Lance has as much chance of outing Verbruggen as Wiggins does of outing the Queen.

We are still in the little league with Lance.

 

[AcademyCC]

I disagree. I think it fits Armstrong's personality perfectly. He has always been a sore loser and loyalty is always a one way street with him. If it is to his advantage, I do not think he would hesitate to throw Verbruggen or anyone else to the wolves. If he could portray the entire sport as corrupt then it makes him one dirty player among many. He can spin that to his advantage.

His problem is that he continues to dig the hole deeper. You would think that he would make allowances that would give him an out at some point in the future, but his ego will not let him do that. It will take something big in his own mind to force him to change course. Becoming publicly irrelevant or the butt of jokes might do it eventually.

To the bold - that is they key. Those three words. If that can be achieved - its over.

 

[skippy]

So many people are so sick and tired of the “ Lance Saga “ they no longer bother to follow these threads ! Walking away from this saga , does not indicate “ guilt “ to most people , it shows that he has lost confidence in the “ arbitration system “ that those who are in Sport have to endure , but those who are retired can choose to ignore .

Most of Sport has it’s problems with PED usage , but , we here , are only interested in it’s effects on Cycling and so many are overlooking the larger picture .

Until Mrs John Fahey ( WADA ) and Mrs Jacques Rogge ( IOC ) are able to convince their Husbands to stand up to the other Council Members/Office Holders of their respective Committees , that the right thing to do to protect future generations of “ Aspiring Athletes “ , is to call an “ Amnesty “ , then NOTHING WILL CHANGE !

Far too much money is as risk to rock the boat , as far as those at the very top of Sports Governance are concerned ! Why shoot the “ Golden Goose “ , because you or I are disgruntled with one “ character”? Lance may be the target for your “ ire “ but there are others out there that caused this whole scenario to start . Should you ALL be right about Lance being what you suspect he is , then , who started him down the road that you say he followed ? Those are the people you should be going after .

As pointed out by another commenter , there is a problem even in “ Shamateur Sport “ where PED usage is considered to be just as prevalent . “ Bragging rights “ are worth spending money on ? What hope for the future when “ Moms & Dads “ think they have to cheat in their non events to get ahead ?

UNTIL an “ Amnesty “ is called the “ ROTTEN CORE of ALL SPORT “ will continue to exist ! Make this “ Amnesty “ a once and only chance to “ Clear their Consciences ( if they have any ) “ and impose “ Draconian “ measures , on ALL those that worked with them when they are found out , after the Deadline has passed ! By “ helpers “ standing back , knowing that an Athlete HAS NOT OWNED UP , makes them equally guilty , thus they then deserve to be treated to the same harsh punishments !

For me the “ Lance Saga “ will not be over until those that provided their generation with PED’s are forced to come out into the open . They will spill on their networks and clients . Should this happen , then those entering Sport will for the first time in generations be able to AVOID those with a taint on their record

 

[CharacterFirst]

UNTIL an “ Amnesty “ is called the “ ROTTEN CORE of ALL SPORT “ will continue to exist !

I think an amnesty is actually a pretty good idea. But we may need more of this blunt justice to facilitate the climate for an amnesty.

In a way USADA offered an amnesty - it seems at least 10 riders took it up, but Lance was too wed to his myth and lies to do so.

He has made his bed, refuses to change over to clean sheets, and so must lie in it.

 

[ebandit]

**** for lance

as brodeal stated it's too late for lance to halt the wreck

he will never confess / apologise

yes! in a few years we will be the fallguy in an endless stream of jokes

then many including myself will be happier

 

[the big ring]

Imagine a forum without LA fanbois and sockpuppets.

 

[sittingbison]

Lance has as much chance of outing Verbruggen as Wiggins does of outing the Queen.

We are still in the little league with Lance.

You keep trying making Lance out to be insignificant, which given my suspicions of your true role here must be part of his/managements new strategy.

He will throw Hein and Fat Pat under the bus in an instant, trying to make them out as the puppet masters of this vaudeville act.

Unfortuneately LauraLyn and TeamLance, USADA and every witness to USPS/Disco/Astana who has spoken out so far paints a completely different picture. TeamLance is the black widow spider at the centre of this vile web.

On topic, I will be happy with TeamLance exposed, corruption in UCI exposed. Lance written out of the records, bankrupted in paying back his ill gotten gains. Corrupt officials at UCI charged by Interpol or Swiss for fraud. TeamLance USPS owners and officials charged by the Feds RICO.

 

[LauraLyn]

You keep trying making Lance out to be insignificant, which given my suspicions of your true role here must be part of his/managements new strategy.

He will throw Hein and Fat Pat under the bus in an instant, trying to make them out as the puppet masters of this vaudeville act.

Unfortunately LauraLyn and TeamLance, USADA and every witness to USPS/Disco/Astana who has spoken out so far paints a completely different picture. TeamLance is the black widow spider at the centre of this vile web.

On topic, I will be happy with TeamLance exposed, corruption in UCI exposed. Lance written out of the records, bankrupted in paying back his ill gotten gains. Corrupt officials at UCI charged by Interpol or Swiss for fraud. TeamLance USPS owners and officials charged by the Feds RICO.

Your insults aside, Lance Armstrong is certainly of importance to cleaning up doping in sports. We do agree on that. We just don't agree on who drives the bus.

FYI: Switzerland is part of Interpol.

 

[LauraLyn]

. . . .

UNTIL an 1. “ Amnesty “ is called the “ ROTTEN CORE of ALL SPORT “ will continue to exist ! Make this “ Amnesty “ a once and only chance to “ Clear their Consciences ( if they have any ) “ and impose “ Draconian “ measures , on ALL those that worked with them when they are found out , after the Deadline has passed ! By “ helpers “ standing back , knowing that an Athlete HAS NOT OWNED UP , makes them equally guilty , thus they then deserve to be treated to the same harsh punishments !

2. For me the “ Lance Saga “ will not be over until those that provided their generation with PED’s are forced to come out into the open . They will spill on their networks and clients . Should this happen , then those entering Sport will for the first time in generations be able to AVOID those with a taint on their record

1. I have thought about an amnesty. I am not convinced it would work. I would prefer the Truth and Reconciliation Process Travis Tygart alluded to. But before any of that, this USADA case needs to run its course and all those involved need to have their penalties.

2. Agree. And I think this is, in part, what the USADA case is about.