Lance being Lance

[Cobblestoned]

So let me get this straight - after RR gets spanked, you come to his rescue by saying "the best thing is you can spot sociopaths from their yellow bands".
But Mark points out correctly that a HUGH amount of cyclists have worn them.
Hog disagrees and puts out a challenge to name 7.

And after both you and the Hog are proven wrong, spanked, you now feel the thread has become boring and tiresome? Cmon, take your spankings like Betty White please. Show some toughness.

Dish it out and take it too.

Wouldn't care too much.
Double B is bored as soon as he stops reading his own posts.

Why make things so much complicated ?
El presidente Valverde and Lord Cavendish always wearing yellow.
(ok, nearly always. Just for the detail-riders.)

That counts x50. At least.

 

[Polish]

I think you missed the point. MarkW stated "HUGH CHUNKS" to which I challenged him to name 7 which he couldn't. All of sudden the interns went scouring the internet and came up with some names (looks more like doping ring connection to me but that’s besides the point) and you came back with 9 - Good. I'm happy for you guys. But as I stated its not "huge chunks of the Pro peloton" as originally stated. 9 is nine but Mark couldn’t name 8, 7 or 9. Huge chunks indeed.

You can spin it anyway you like but the point has been sadly missed and you won’t let it go.

But that’s ok. I know what makes you guys tick. You hang on to this stuff as some form of victory. Like you showed "the truth" .

I hate to say it but theHog can hold his head high – he has nothing to hide. I like his credibility.

Oh I see - you wanted MARK to name 7 or 8 or 9.
Other people do not count. Has to be MARK.

So playing by the Dr Maserati rules, you have NOT been proven wrong spanked. "Who said anyone else? Has to be Mark"

Ok, hog, you can hold your head up high.
But doesn't your bottom feel a little warm. Flushed, a bit red?
spank spank.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Can't back up your lies, I see.

Hi mark,
Do you remember when you wrote this some months ago:

And you have no basis for saying I have no "legal experience." And I don't want to get in a discussion with you, Maserati. You might "quote" something I never said.

From this thread.

It would be very easy for to you to clear up the confusion by being honest, if possible.

Also, when you accuse others of lying, it doesn't help your case to have written this:

The Lance Armstrong investigation brought me to this forum and now it is over.

My time here has enabled me to learn a lot about a very small subculture of people who gather to spend a lot of their time and energy discussing all the negative aspects of Lance Armstrong. I've spent a lot of time (way too much) with you all. Thank you all very much for sharing with me.

I'm going to try to put Lance Armstrong way in the back of some mental closet, forever I hope. Any publicity is good for him, and I don't think I want to contribute any more.

For those of you that remain, I sincerely hope that something useful comes out of your time spent participating here.

Goodbye!
Mark

 

[patricknd]

I think you missed the point. MarkW stated "HUGH CHUNKS" to which I challenged him to name 7 which he couldn't. All of sudden the interns went scouring the internet and came up with some names (looks more like doping ring connection to me but that’s besides the point) and you came back with 9 - Good. I'm happy for you guys. But as I stated its not "huge chunks of the Pro peloton" as originally stated. 9 is nine but Mark couldn’t name 8, 7 or 9. Huge chunks indeed.

You can spin it anyway you like but the point has been sadly missed and you won’t let it go.

But that’s ok. I know what makes you guys tick. You hang on to this stuff as some form of victory. Like you showed "the truth" .

I hate to say it but theHog can hold his head high – he has nothing to hide. I like his credibility.

Especially on Tuesdays, eh hog?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think you missed the point. MarkW stated "HUGH CHUNKS" to which I challenged him to name 7 which he couldn't. All of sudden the interns went scouring the internet and came up with some names (looks more like doping ring connection to me but that’s besides the point) and you came back with 9 - Good. I'm happy for you guys. But as I stated its not "huge chunks of the Pro peloton" as originally stated. 9 is nine but Mark couldn’t name 8, 7 or 9. Huge chunks indeed.

You can spin it anyway you like but the point has been sadly missed and you won’t let it go.

But that’s ok. I know what makes you guys tick. You hang on to this stuff as some form of victory. Like you showed "the truth" .

I hate to say it but theHog can hold his head high – he has nothing to hide. I like his credibility.

Classic comeback.....not like anyone has ever used these accusations before and not been required to back it up.

 

[patricknd]

Classic comeback.....not like anyone has ever used these accusations before and not been required to back it up.

It's the standard fall back position of the desperate bunch

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Hi mark,
Do you remember when you wrote this some months ago:

From this thread.

It would be very easy for to you to clear up the confusion by being honest, if possible.

Also, when you accuse others of lying, it doesn't help your case to have written this:

I had remembered some of these exchanges. But I would have never been able to look them all up. Great werks Dr. Mazarati.

Maybe his goodbye was just for a a couple of days. I know when I tell my daughter goodbye on ichat it is until the next day.

Goodbye....Dr.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

It's the standard fall back position of the desperate bunch

Hey intern...are you paid by the word or by the post. You know this makes a huge difference...On the other hand it does not matter because you are a troll.

 

[MarkvW]

Inform us of your "experience in state court".

As you have afterwards revealed you possess no legal qualifications were you the janitor, bailiff, court reporter, etc?

I don't have to tell you anything. You can't back up your lies.

 

[patricknd]

Hey intern...are you paid by the word or by the post. You know this makes a huge difference...On the other hand it does not matter because you are a troll.

Obviously by the post as my replies tend to be ruthlessly short and on topic!

Oh yeah, and Lance Armstrong is mean !!!

 

[MacRoadie]

Oh I see - you wanted MARK to name 7 or 8 or 9.
Other people do not count. Has to be MARK.

Ok, so let's let everyone play.

The somewhat ambiguous quantity goal is something equal to a "huge chunk".

A quick search online suggests that a "chunk" is: "a substantial amount". A "huge" chunk, therefore, would then be a very substantial amount.

A similar online search reveals that the term "substantial" is defined as: "of a considerable size or value" (in the context used).

For purposes of this discussion, let's define the "peloton" as those riders participating in the Tour de France only (keeps things simple and quite frankly the smaller the group, the easier it should be to come up with a "huge chunk" of it, rather than, say, "all professional cyclists" or "every rider on a Pro Tour roster").

Given that the Livestrong wristbands were launched in May, 2004, that would mean they have been available to riders competing in the last 8 Tours de France (2004-2011). With 180 riders per year, over 8 years, that would result in the opportunity for 1,440 entrants in the Tour to be photographed wearing the wristband (I take this liberty because the photographs posted as proof thus far are taken from multiple seasons and are not representative of a single season's peloton).

9 out of 1,440 doesn't seem to satisfy the "huge chunk" definition developed above. Heck, 9 out of a single 180-man Tour peloton is only 5% (ignoring that the photos provided aren't from the same racing season). Even if we limit it to the top-10 each year, (since no one ever photographs the lanterne rouge), that still leaves 9 out of a possibly 80 riders.

Huge chunk? Not so much...

 

[BroDeal]

I don't have to tell you anything. You can't back up your lies.

 

[BotanyBay]

Y'all be cool. Like Fonzie.

 

[Polish]

Ok, so let's let everyone play.

The somewhat ambiguous quantity goal is something equal to a "huge chunk".

A quick search online suggests that a "chunk" is: "a substantial amount". A "huge" chunk, therefore, would then be a very substantial amount.

A similar online search reveals that the term "substantial" is defined as: "of a considerable size or value" (in the context used).

For purposes of this discussion, let's define the "peloton" as those riders participating in the Tour de France only (keeps things simple and quite frankly the smaller the group, the easier it should be to come up with a "huge chunk" of it, rather than, say, "all professional cyclists" or "every rider on a Pro Tour roster").

Given that the Livestrong wristbands were launched in May, 2004, that would mean they have been available to riders competing in the last 8 Tours de France (2004-2011). With 180 riders per year, over 8 years, that would result in the opportunity for 1,440 entrants in the Tour to be photographed wearing the wristband (I take this liberty because the photographs posted as proof thus far are taken from multiple seasons and are not representative of a single season's peloton).

9 out of 1,440 doesn't seem to satisfy the "huge chunk" definition developed above. Heck, 9 out of a single 180-man Tour peloton is only 5% (ignoring that the photos provided aren't from the same racing season). Even if we limit it to the top-10 each year, (since no one ever photographs the lanterne rouge), that still leaves 9 out of a possibly 80 riders.

Huge chunk? Not so much...

9 riders is not a huge chunk. Be silly to think 9 riders is a hugh chunk. Even sillier to think that only 9 riders have ever worn a Livestrong Band. Heck, there were probably more than 9 riders wearing Livestrong bands in this year's Paris-Roubaix only.

To me a hugh chunk is hundreds of riders. And hundreds of riders HAVE worn Livestrong Bands over the years. And hundreds and hundreds of pro athletes in other sports too. Thousands. More athletes have worn Livestrong bands than Lance has been drug tested. Hugh. Chunks.

 

[MarkvW]

9 riders is not a huge chunk. Be silly to think 9 riders is a hugh chunk. Even sillier to think that only 9 riders have ever worn a Livestrong Band. Heck, there were probably more than 9 riders wearing Livestrong bands in this year's Paris-Roubaix only.

To me a hugh chunk is hundreds of riders. And hundreds of riders HAVE worn Livestrong Bands over the years. And hundreds and hundreds of pro athletes in other sports too. Thousands. More athletes have worn Livestrong bands than Lance has been drug tested. Hugh. Chunks.

Tens of millions of the bands have been sold. I don't think every person wearing one is a sociopathic tool.

 

[MacRoadie]

9 riders is not a huge chunk. Be silly to think 9 riders is a hugh chunk. Even sillier to think that only 9 riders have ever worn a Livestrong Band. Heck, there were probably more than 9 riders wearing Livestrong bands in this year's Paris-Roubaix only.

To me a hugh chunk is hundreds of riders. And hundreds of riders HAVE worn Livestrong Bands over the years. And hundreds and hundreds of pro athletes in other sports too. Thousands. More athletes have worn Livestrong bands than Lance has been drug tested. Hugh. Chunks.

No one said only nine riders wore the wrist bands. Even a half-witted lunkhead would know that millions of the things have been bought...and worn by athletes from all walks of life.

The point made, was that a huge chuck of a very select (and VERY public and oft-photographed) group of individuals wore the wristbands. That assertion was challenged, and apparently as support for the assertion, you and others took it UPON YOURSELVES to provide proof through photographs.

I am simply asking why, if the percentage of Pro Tour riders (not club riders, athletes in other sports, or the general public) is so substantial, can one not find literally hundreds (your number) of top-level professional cyclists wearing the bands. The number of available photos from the past 8 tours must be in the hundreds of thousands.

I can remember early on, when the idea was fresh and Armstrong's image was less tarnished, that probably a good dozen riders could be seen wearing them. I also remember being struck by the number who DIDN'T wear them (heck, I even had one). In fact, I remember Joe Public wearing them with greater frequency than pro riders and wondering why that was (jealousy, dislike of Armstrong, etc).

More than 9? Definitely. Hundreds? Not buying it.

 

[MacRoadie]

And let's be perfectly clear:

I do not equate a Livestrong band with Lance Armstrong. The same goes for the "I ride for..." stickers than many people have on their bikes.

For me, if individuals want to purchase or wear the bands or stickers in memory or support of a family member or friend who is battling cancer or is a cancer survivor, then more power to them. I respect that and am in no position to be critical of their choice.

The reason I entered this debate is because of the converse: what does the decision NOT to wear a Livesrong band say about someone?

Is it really a valid topic for internet debate? So what if only 9 (or 19 or 90) guys did wear a yellow band in the Tour de France? Do we know why? Do we know what fueled their decision? Is it any of our business?

Are the guys who chose not to wear one bad people? Are the ones who DID, better? Does the number validate or challenge the validity of Livestrong? I'm thinking not.

Why is it so important that some number or percentage of professional cyclists wear the things?

 

[Martin318is]

Oh please martin, give us a break.

ANYONE who has watched Pro cycling over the many years since the Livestrong Band was first introduced KNOWS that a HUGE amount of Pro Cyclists have worn them. Huge. Lots and lots. More than 7.

If its 'huge' then it must be really easy to find an image of a group of cyclists this year where a large number are wearing the Livestrong bands.

current photos will be difficult due to weather making people wear sleeves but here is a photo from this year's Tour Down Under in brilliant sunshine. Can you see any Livestrong bands?

Ok, top of the current ranking...Boonen has worn a Livestrong Bracelet....

This year? when? plenty of riders (basically all of them) wore one in the past. The question is, do more than one or two in the entire peloton now?

 

[Martin318is]

The "tool" point is apparently irrelevant here. And I think it is now crystal clear that an Administrator of this site has invited people to spam pictures of yellow wristband-wearing pro cyclists! He wants the proof!

Read my signature and get yourself up to date.

 

[thehog]

And let's be perfectly clear:

I do not equate a Livestrong band with Lance Armstrong. The same goes for the "I ride for..." stickers than many people have on their bikes.

For me, if individuals want to purchase or wear the bands or stickers in memory or support of a family member or friend who is battling cancer or is a cancer survivor, then more power to them. I respect that and am in no position to be critical of their choice.

The reason I entered this debate is because of the converse: what does the decision NOT to wear a Livesrong band say about someone?

Is it really a valid topic for internet debate? So what if only 9 (or 19 or 90) guys did wear a yellow band in the Tour de France? Do we know why? Do we know what fueled their decision? Is it any of our business?

Are the guys who chose not to wear one bad people? Are the ones who DID, better? Does the number validate or challenge the validity of Livestrong? I'm thinking not.

Why is it so important that some number or percentage of professional cyclists wear the things?

You've hit the nail on the head. I like you saw hundreds of these bands given away on the roadsides in France at the Tour. Some were sold for a euro but many were given away by the Nike sponsored carry people. They wore Nike t-shirts and flogged them off - cool.

I've never seen Polish so rattled to be honest. I think that some here see the yellow band as some form of Lance popularity contest? That huge chunks meant that he really was patron of the peloton? I'm not sure.

You're right. Those bands were everywhere and the yellow was stolen from the Tour. I never saw them much more than just a marketing ploy. A good one at that and a little symbol for those whom have loved ones suffering.

But to see it as a popularity contest as Polish doesn't it most concerning.

 

[patricknd]

And let's be perfectly clear:

I do not equate a Livestrong band with Lance Armstrong. The same goes for the "I ride for..." stickers than many people have on their bikes.

For me, if individuals want to purchase or wear the bands or stickers in memory or support of a family member or friend who is battling cancer or is a cancer survivor, then more power to them. I respect that and am in no position to be critical of their choice.

The reason I entered this debate is because of the converse: what does the decision NOT to wear a Livesrong band say about someone?

Is it really a valid topic for internet debate? So what if only 9 (or 19 or 90) guys did wear a yellow band in the Tour de France? Do we know why? Do we know what fueled their decision? Is it any of our business?

Are the guys who chose not to wear one bad people? Are the ones who DID, better? Does the number validate or challenge the validity of Livestrong? I'm thinking not.

Why is it so important that some number or percentage of professional cyclists wear the things?

well said. when i got out of the hospital after surgery, i went to my office to pick up some work to take home. when i got there, my employees were all wearing livestrong bands, and they had raised about $1500.00 for me to do the ride for the roses in austin. it was something my assistant had been planning without my knowledge, and it's one of my most cherished memories. it wasn't about lance armstrong, it was about people that cared about me, and i think it's that way for many people. most of the people that i know wearing them today wear them in memory of a loved one.

 

[Polish]

If its 'huge' then it must be really easy to find an image of a group of cyclists this year where a large number are wearing the Livestrong bands.

current photos will be difficult due to weather making people wear sleeves but here is a photo from this year's Tour Down Under in brilliant sunshine. Can you see any Livestrong bands?

This year? when? plenty of riders (basically all of them) wore one in the past. The question is, do more than one or two in the entire peloton now?

Mark said a hugh chunk of the peloton wore them. Which is true. Fact.
Hundreds of riders wore them.

Mark did not mention the 2012 TDU. But there were many riders wearing them there. Valverde for one. Big Name, lots of attention there...

And how about this BMC rider...don't know his name sorry.
Livestrong.

Anyway, time for me to go home. Going to have a huge chunk of steak for dinner.

 

[Cobblestoned]

If its 'huge' then it must be really easy to find an image of a group of cyclists this year where a large number are wearing the Livestrong bands.

current photos will be difficult due to weather making people wear sleeves but here is a photo from this year's Tour Down Under in brilliant sunshine. Can you see any Livestrong bands?

This year? when? plenty of riders (basically all of them) wore one in the past. The question is, do more than one or two in the entire peloton now?

ok, Mr.Not-mod.

Can you show me anyone not wearing a Livestrong band here ?
Especially in the centre ?

?

 

[function]

The Hog asked for 8, but you listed 9. Expect Dr Maserati to be along shortly to point out your fail...
"Where did the Hog say 9?"

and then a finger wagging from thehog

 

[Martin318is]

ok, Mr.Not-mod.

Can you show me anyone not wearing a Livestrong band here ?
Especially in the centre ?

?

Your point being?

If Douglas Adams is to be believed, there are no people at all in your photo because it is of infinite space and contains an infinite number of worlds where only a subset are possibly populated. Any number divided by infinity is essentially zero...

Anyway, joking asside - All I was demonstrating is that whilst yes while Lance was still riding and Livestrong was seen as a good organisation, a lot of pro riders showed solidarity and wore one. However, scroll forward to now and the point that was being made by others is quite valid - there appear to be relatively few riders still prepared to wear them. This can hardly be described as a huge chunk of the current peloton and given some past dated photos of retired riders were posted, it seemed appropriate to contribute a photo that is current where no wrist has a band.