Lance goes Postal on Contador conviction.

[jae2460]

To the OP: Spot on +1. The omerta is alive and well. As far as I am concerned, if you don't speak out against doping, and on a case like this, I'm going to assume it's likely you are doping. And I don't mean rip Contador to shreds. I mean simply state if he doped, he should be suspended. But strangely, they are all silent.

Despite what the LA spin machine would have you believe, Greg LeMond doesn't come out of the woodwork on his own to throw stones too often. Perhaps a reporter will contact him and he'll give a response. If he does, I expect it to be critical of Contador and doping, as always. Greg has also said in the past he doesn't talk as much about foreign athletes because he is from the United States and would prefer to concentrate on his own country.

I agree with you regarding omerta, etc. but give me a break about LeMond--the guy works Armstrong into every fricken conversation he has. He's a bitter whiny jackass; he was that way before Armstrong won his first tour--look at the old videos. Or, better yet, read his fricking "blog" on this site in which he actually manages to comment about Lance when the topic of the article he was writing had nothing to do with Lance... Give me a break!!!

Lemond isn't commenting about Contador because Contador's not an American so his winning didn't diminish Greg's 3 victories which could've been more if he hadn't been shot and if he had doped like everyone else. Those are two reasons to be bitter, but he was a whiny bitter jerk before those things happened to him too. The guy's obviously an a$$, I don't get why so many of you guys worship him. He's a tool. A bigger one than even Armstrong, and that's a pretty big tool...

 

[flicker]

To the OP: Spot on +1. The omerta is alive and well. As far as I am concerned, if you don't speak out against doping, and on a case like this, I'm going to assume it's likely you are doping. And I don't mean rip Contador to shreds. I mean simply state if he doped, he should be suspended. But strangely, they are all silent.

Despite what the LA spin machine would have you believe, Greg LeMond doesn't come out of the woodwork on his own to throw stones too often. Perhaps a reporter will contact him and he'll give a response. If he does, I expect it to be critical of Contador and doping, as always. Greg has also said in the past he doesn't talk as much about foreign athletes because he is from the United States and would prefer to concentrate on his own country.

In regards to doping imo Greg wants to be the American cyclist. Any dig he can get in on American cyclists he will. If anti-doping is Gregs weapon he will use it, as long as it is against American cyclists.

Just watch not long before LeMond turns on Vaughters, Ochowicz,Taylor Phinney, TJ Van Gaerten, Ben King, just anyone he can get in his cross hairs now that his biggest enemy, Armstrong is out of the picture. Good for Boyer he is not being hammered on by LeMond.

 

[Galic Ho]

Make that Dr Fuentes and you are right. I have no idea however what kind of training schedules Fuentes is supposed to write. Isn't he a "women's doctor"? Perhaps Frank and the Mrs were having some trouble getting pregnant.

Regards
GJ

Fuentes training involved gaenocology studies. Nothing more. His main skillset is as a supervisor and instructor on how to juice with the best of them. Basically Fuentes stopped being a gynaecologist in the 80s. Switched to the real deal, where the money was...sports and doping.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I agree with you regarding omerta, etc. but give me a break about LeMond--the guy works Armstrong into every fricken conversation he has. He's a bitter whiny jackass; he was that way before Armstrong won his first tour--look at the old videos. Or, better yet, read his fricking "blog" on this site in which he actually manages to comment about Lance when the topic of the article he was writing had nothing to do with Lance... Give me a break!!!

Lemond isn't commenting about Contador because Contador's not an American so his winning didn't diminish Greg's 3 victories which could've been more if he hadn't been shot and if he had doped like everyone else. Those are two reasons to be bitter, but he was a whiny bitter jerk before those things happened to him too. The guy's obviously an a$$, I don't get why so many of you guys worship him. He's a tool. A bigger one than even Armstrong, and that's a pretty big tool...

Excuse me, but I find your comments to be extremely ignorant. Most people who know as little as you do about a specific subject choose not to try to comment on that subject. I would never tell someone how to live their life, but unless your goal is to be percieved as being stupid it would be in your best interest to not make so much noise. And I say that with all due respect.

 

[NashbarShorts]

Anyone with a lick of sense would shut up about the Contador case. Floyd +Micheal R. it is your turn to speak up now.

You notice how quiet LeMond is now, good on Greg he is learning.

Flicks, maybe the reason you haven't heard from Lemond is, what more is there to say?? The sport is a circus. Center ring, clown car. Just when you think no more clowns can possibly emerge from the Volkswagen Beetle, here comes another (Contador, Wigans, Lowe...).

You also mentioned Lemond has always turned on US pros. Really?? I'm pretty sure he only 'turned' on Lancey-poo once it was revealed that Lance's personal physician specializes in EPO-orange juice analogies. As for Floyd, hunt down Lemond's comments in the press when Floyd won... Lemond was stoked. Very happy for Floyd, he went on about how Floyd was a nice guy, humble, etc.

Even after Floyd was pinched, Lemond's initial comments to the press were "if it's truly artificial T, then Floyd needs to come clean and help us clean up the sport". I recall he also said that the "cycling friends" Floyd hoped to protect wouldn't really measure up as "life friends" at the end of the day.

Now that the dust has settled, can you argue Mr. Lemond was wrong on that one??

 

[Oldman]

That is exactly why I think longer bans for drug positives would be wrong at this time. Lets go after the team directors and the dope docs and the UCI and then when (?) we have that mess straightened out, no mercy on dopers.

The NBA just suspended OJ Mayo 10 games for a DHEA positive. Mayo claims the "supplement es muy tainted" defense, apologizes and actually takes responsibility for not doing the research on the supplement! While many would guess the positive is the tip of an NBA player's "supplement" iceberg; the penalty is real. Mayo will lose serious cash and his team loses his services but still has to take him back after suspension.
I'm not saying this is would be a deterrent to seldom caught cyclists but hitting the teams and DS with fines would help.

 

[Race Radio]

If you want to know how a rider should respond....read Meatball twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/mikefriedman2

 

[NashbarShorts]

Exactly. To them this is just the way the sport is... I wouldn't be surprised if they thought not doping is unprofessional...

Yep. I did a European training camp on Mallorca once and met a camp staffer who was a former top French amateur. He had a lot of stories to tell, but primarily he had made the decision to stay amateur b/c he didn't want to dope, and he explained if you went pro and didn't dope, you were looked down upon as a clown who wasn't 'serious' about the sport. He chose not to, and was able to make a decent living as an amateur who worked a real job in the off-season. Have to admit, it was a bit depressing to hear him tell it...

 

[Oldman]

Yep. I did a European training camp on Mallorca once and met a camp staffer who was a former top French amateur. He had a lot of stories to tell, but primarily he had made the decision to stay amateur b/c he didn't want to dope, and he explained if you went pro and didn't dope, you were looked down upon as a clown who wasn't 'serious' about the sport. He chose not to, and was able to make a decent living as an amateur who worked a real job in the off-season. Have to admit, it was a bit depressing to hear him tell it...

Even worse a clean rider is considered with suspicion because he lacks complicity in the common crime. I've had several former teammates return from France with the same story although they had been specifically approached by the team to "participate in professional preparation". When they declined they were kicked out of the team rooms instantly.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yep. I did a European training camp on Mallorca once and met a camp staffer who was a former top French amateur. He had a lot of stories to tell, but primarily he had made the decision to stay amateur b/c he didn't want to dope, and he explained if you went pro and didn't dope, you were looked down upon as a clown who wasn't 'serious' about the sport. He chose not to, and was able to make a decent living as an amateur who worked a real job in the off-season. Have to admit, it was a bit depressing to hear him tell it...

My experience with the French ams is much different.

The top am category (A) had very little (if any) testing, so there was always a huge contingent of guys who stayed am to do as much juice as possible while still making pretty good money.

Probably depended on who you ran into. I was there, and was naive enough to stay clean...

 

[Oldman]

My experience with the French ams is much different.

The top am category (A) had very little (if any) testing, so there was always a huge contingent of guys who stayed am to do as much juice as possible while still making pretty good money.

Probably depended on who you ran into. I was there, and was naive enough to stay clean...

Hopefully honest enough as well, eh? At least you don't have to make any moral allowances for your experience.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Hopefully honest enough as well, eh? At least you don't have to make any moral allowances for your experience.

True enough... Although I did crash a couple of guys...

 

[veganrob]

Yep. I did a European training camp on Mallorca once and met a camp staffer who was a former top French amateur. He had a lot of stories to tell, but primarily he had made the decision to stay amateur b/c he didn't want to dope, and he explained if you went pro and didn't dope, you were looked down upon as a clown who wasn't 'serious' about the sport. He chose not to, and was able to make a decent living as an amateur who worked a real job in the off-season. Have to admit, it was a bit depressing to hear him tell it...

That 's nice to hear something like that, for the clean rider I mean. Story today in NY Times, pitcher for Kansas City Royals turned down the last year of his contract of which he would have made 12 mil because he felt he was not earning it any longer.
Some hope somewhere.

 

[craig1985]

If you want to know how a rider should respond....read Meatball twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/mikefriedman2

That is some quality ranting.

 

[Race Radio]

My experience with the French ams is much different.

The top am category (A) had very little (if any) testing, so there was always a huge contingent of guys who stayed am to do as much juice as possible while still making pretty good money.

Probably depended on who you ran into. I was there, and was naive enough to stay clean...

What year was this? Did you race under a French license?

 

[Martin318is]

NOT! Does anyone think it’s odd that not one rider/Team owner /manager condone or admonish Contandor’s drug use? If I lost to a rider that drugged I would be enraged; where is the outrage? Andy still considers AC the winner. The guilt from their own cheating these riders share must be overwhelming. Lance condoned Floyd because of his typical relationship of once friends/now enemies, but other cheats nothing.

I imagine that the owners and managers are keeping away from the topic because they think that the transgression APPEARS to be minor enough that after the suspension ends they can sign him and then use spin to make it look even smaller than it was. In some heads, this was possibly even less severe than Basso "intending to dope"

 

[Paco_P]

The NBA just suspended OJ Mayo 10 games for a DHEA positive. Mayo claims the "supplement es muy tainted" defense, apologizes and actually takes responsibility for not doing the research on the supplement! While many would guess the positive is the tip of an NBA player's "supplement" iceberg; the penalty is real. Mayo will lose serious cash and his team loses his services but still has to take him back after suspension.
I'm not saying this is would be a deterrent to seldom caught cyclists but hitting the teams and DS with fines would help.

You're right about at least one thing - Mayo loses something like $400,000 in pay for his suspension. It probably hurts him with respect to endorsements too.

Still, the NBA is more interested in communicating to its sculpted, supernaturally strong players that they do a better job not getting caught (do you hear me Lebron?).

 

[Oldman]

I imagine that the owners and managers are keeping away from the topic because they think that the transgression APPEARS to be minor enough that after the suspension ends they can sign him and then use spin to make it look even smaller than it was. In some heads, this was possibly even less severe than Basso "intending to dope"

Best explanation I've heard. Hopefully for 'Berto's bankroll he doesn't appeal and get another year tacked on. If that happens the commentary from the sidelines could get a little louder. Along those same lines it's likely the DS's don't want to represent a target for their own suspect riders yet to be caught.

 

[runninboy]

Flicks, maybe the reason you haven't heard from Lemond is, what more is there to say?? The sport is a circus. Center ring, clown car. Just when you think no more clowns can possibly emerge from the Volkswagen Beetle, here comes another (Contador, Wigans, Lowe...).

You also mentioned Lemond has always turned on US pros. Really?? I'm pretty sure he only 'turned' on Lancey-poo once it was revealed that Lance's personal physician specializes in EPO-orange juice analogies. As for Floyd, hunt down Lemond's comments in the press when Floyd won... Lemond was stoked. Very happy for Floyd, he went on about how Floyd was a nice guy, humble, etc.

Even after Floyd was pinched, Lemond's initial comments to the press were "if it's truly artificial T, then Floyd needs to come clean and help us clean up the sport". I recall he also said that the "cycling friends" Floyd hoped to protect wouldn't really measure up as "life friends" at the end of the day.

Now that the dust has settled, can you argue Mr. Lemond was wrong on that one??

+1 Agree LeMond was always very supportive of US Pros, he was even behind Lance until he found out about his "connections" then that's when they both went at each other. People who talk about Greg being whiny etc have no clue. If you look back to when he was deceived and ordered to wait on Hinault his whole world came crashing down. He realized he had been played that he was Hinaults teammate to make sure Hinault won by eliminating the competition by hiring them.
I still have the tape somewhere when Greg threatens to punch someone, then Stephen Roche commenting that "Greg was the better man" and he(Roche) would have NEVER waited. But Greg put the moment behind him and played the role of teammate. He got ticked off the next year when Hinault tried to renege on his promise to help in the following years TDF in exchange for his sacrifice the previous year.But he clammed up again, made nice and even rode support for Hinault so he could win the Coors Classic. Lemond by his actions proved to be alot less selfish than some posters paint him out to be. His words in the heat of the moment can be pretty strong when he feels he has been screwed. But his actions that followed proved he respected others. LA has never backed off of Greg so Greg is not about to back off of LA.

 

[mombus]

You are mistaken. AS's father was pulled over during the Tour, while I believe acting as the driver for some Tour dignitaries. It was a random check by the authorities in which nothing was found. Frank wasn't suspended for that since there was nothing found to suspend him for. He was investigated for having wrote a check to Dr. Ferari's account for what he said was a payment for a training program from the good doctor. The investigation found nothing beyond what Frank claimed was the reason for the deposit. It definitely was an ill-advised transaction considering the doctor's reputation and makes one wonder what could he have been thinking at the time.

Someone is oblivious.

 

[flicker]

Flicks, maybe the reason you haven't heard from Lemond is, what more is there to say?? The sport is a circus. Center ring, clown car. Just when you think no more clowns can possibly emerge from the Volkswagen Beetle, here comes another (Contador, Wigans, Lowe...).

You also mentioned Lemond has always turned on US pros. Really?? I'm pretty sure he only 'turned' on Lancey-poo once it was revealed that Lance's personal physician specializes in EPO-orange juice analogies. As for Floyd, hunt down Lemond's comments in the press when Floyd won... Lemond was stoked. Very happy for Floyd, he went on about how Floyd was a nice guy, humble, etc.

Even after Floyd was pinched, Lemond's initial comments to the press were "if it's truly artificial T, then Floyd needs to come clean and help us clean up the sport". I recall he also said that the "cycling friends" Floyd hoped to protect wouldn't really measure up as "life friends" at the end of the day.

Now that the dust has settled, can you argue Mr. Lemond was wrong on that one??

As far as how LeMond dealt with Floyd, I would have outted Floyd. In my eyes Floyd is and has been a dirtbag.
Basiclly Floyd embarassed LeMond and LeMonds' family. LeMond was nice and considerate to Floyd. In my eyes Floyd was small LeMond big.

You might be right. I find it curious that LeMond the anti-doping crusader that he is has not made any comment about Alberto. You remember during the tour 2009 on the rest day after an awesome spectacle on a mountain LeMond confronted Contador about Contadors blood values.
Contador totally blew LeMond off, would not answer Gregs' question.

I think it is out of character for LeMond, Walshe, Kimmage to be so silent about Contador and about Vaughters and his crews activities and reactions to doping.

Lance has nothing to say about anything with about Contador and doping.
Lance made his own bed and now he has to sleep in it.

 

[Barrus]

Get this thread back on-topic now, or be prepared for any consequences coming from not doing so.

The topic:

NOT! Does anyone think it’s odd that not one rider/Team owner /manager condone or admonish Contandor’s drug use? If I lost to a rider that drugged I would be enraged; where is the outrage?