Lance now Astana team leader...

[Bakunin]

The report that put the question to Hincapie whether Armstrong was given a heads up about the break was interesting. If he was, than you can ask some serious questions about Armstrong -- but as it stands he was both lucky and smart.

I doubt that Contador is worried about being 19 seconds down on Lance. Contador was doing what he needed to do -- watch Evans, Sastre, Menchov and Andy S. They are his challengers, not Armstrong.

 

[colwildcat]

It sickens me to see Lance and his subtle verbal challenges, false promises of "whomever is strongest is team leader", "Alberto is leader" in interviews, and finally, Lance and his half of the team pulling on the front to gap off Contador when he was in the second group. That is such bad sportsmanship and goes back to the Hinault/Lemond days of Hinault promising to help Greg and then racing against him.
As if he's not had enough glory after winning so many tours. Alberto has proven himself in the very recent past as being capable of winning grand tours whereas Lance has not. To take advantage of a break like that and take pulls is low. In tours past, the entire postal/discovery team would have been driving to bring the break back.

Lance's stock has always been junk status with me but he's now descended to absolute worthlessness as a man.

Sorry, that is utter garbage. They got into the break, and saw a great marketing opportunity. They didn't need to chase to get Contador back, he will make it up in the mountains. There is a great chance Lance is in the yellow jersey after tomorrow. That gets Astana huge amounts of press, and is great for the team. Then, he can take a back seat to Contador in the mountains. I guarantee you that Bruyneel was telling them to keep the gap away and work at the front. He doesn't just get to do his own thing. You Lance haters are pathetic, for the most part.

 

[aermet]

That's a good point about watching his main GC rivals and it's also possible that LA was working so as to increase his potential threat to the other GC riders other than Contador knowing that he would lose minutes to them in the mtns. I however do not believe that to be true as Lance would always ride in previous tours with the entire team to protect him in case of the many things that can go wrong and jeopardize his GC domination. With Kirchen, Rogers, Tony Martin in the break, it would also potentially help their possible GC aspirations to be up the road. I believe what we are seeing is a sneak peak of a divided and 2 different Astana teams riding the tour.

 

[aermet]

First of all, disagreeing with my point is fair game. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am no Lance hater. What I do dislike is someone that has won many tours not only because of hard work, talent, and dedication but also by not playing by the rules and squashing any dissenters or others that may have been telling the truth about him and his methods. But calling us "Lance haters and pathetic" wreaks of a little bit of Lance fanaticism on your part.

If you really think that Bruyneel is calling the shots, you are mistaken. Lance has been calling the shots for years at postal and discovery as well as at Astana. That does not take anything away from Bruyneel, as one rider in a race cannot do it alone, but make no mistake, Lance is the boss.

The strategy that has worked perfectly for Lance in his previous tours has all of a sudden become obsolete in favor of multiple GC riders? There's a lot more going on with regards to team politics and discord than they will ever say.

 

[colwildcat]

That's a good point about watching his main GC rivals and it's also possible that LA was working so as to increase his potential threat to the other GC riders other than Contador knowing that he would lose minutes to them in the mtns. I however do not believe that to be true as Lance would always ride in previous tours with the entire team to protect him in case of the many things that can go wrong and jeopardize his GC domination. With Kirchen, Rogers, Tony Martin in the break, it would also potentially help their possible GC aspirations to be up the road. I believe what we are seeing is a sneak peak of a divided and 2 different Astana teams riding the tour.

I love the mention of Lance's "henchman" in the article on cyclingnews.

If this was truly 2 teams, doing their own things, don't you think Leipheimer would have been up with Lance? Or Kloden? Zubeldia surely wouldn't be the rider you'd throw in the "Lance" camp.

The fact is that Contador got caught riding too far back in the group and got dropped when it split. The 3 Astana riders that were at the front caught it. They have a great opportunity to put Lance in the yellow jersey for possibly an extended period of time, while still supporting Contador for the win. It's a good situation for the team.

 

[colwildcat]

First of all, disagreeing with my point is fair game. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am no Lance hater. What I do dislike is someone that has won many tours not only because of hard work, talent, and dedication but also by not playing by the rules and squashing any dissenters or others that may have been telling the truth about him and his methods. But calling us "Lance haters and pathetic" wreaks of a little bit of Lance fanaticism on your part.

If you really think that Bruyneel is calling the shots, you are mistaken. Lance has been calling the shots for years at postal and discovery as well as at Astana. That does not take anything away from Bruyneel, as one rider in a race cannot do it alone, but make no mistake, Lance is the boss.

The strategy that has worked perfectly for Lance in his previous tours has all of a sudden become obsolete in favor of multiple GC riders? There's a lot more going on with regards to team politics and discord than they will ever say.

Calling him worthless sure sounds like that makes you a hater. People are accusing the team of doping because they arrived late today? Come on.

Sorry, but I don't think that Lance can win the tour, and I don't think he believes he can either. But, if he can spend a week in yellow, then that works out pretty well from a marketing persective for the team.

But, I couldn't care less if Contador is upset. This team gets blown up this year anyway when Vino comes back. I doubt Contador, Armstrong, or Leipheimer are there next year. We all would have been better off if Contador had left for Garmin, then at least they could go toe to toe without all the tip toeing and infighting.

Hey, at least if Lance wins, all the skeptics can't say it's because the best team in the world dropped him at the bottom of the climbs without having to do any of the work. If it's truly him and 2-3 others at Astana against the rest, he'll have to earn it.

 

[Bakunin]

That's a good point about watching his main GC rivals and it's also possible that LA was working so as to increase his potential threat to the other GC riders other than Contador knowing that he would lose minutes to them in the mtns. I however do not believe that to be true as Lance would always ride in previous tours with the entire team to protect him in case of the many things that can go wrong and jeopardize his GC domination. With Kirchen, Rogers, Tony Martin in the break, it would also potentially help their possible GC aspirations to be up the road. I believe what we are seeing is a sneak peak of a divided and 2 different Astana teams riding the tour.

I hear you. I think it is true that the more weapons a team has for GC, the better (we saw that last year with SAXO). However, I think it is wrong to compare the Astana situation today with what Lance did back in the day. Lance never had a team mate that won all three GTs. We cannot talk about Lance and GC domination -- those days are over. He knows that.

Regardless of whether Astana is divided or not (I think it is overblown), Contador has some serious sting in his tail when it comes to the mountains -- Levi, Evans, Sastre, and Kloden have felt it. I would expect Lance will feel it as well.

Contador will win this easily. It is his time. He did not look or act freaked out when the group split -- the people he is really worried about were right with him.

 

[aermet]

Whether Levi or Kloden ended up front with the break is something that would have depended on so many factors and exact position at the time when HTC drilled it to force the split. As strong as they are, they are not just going to say, hmm, there's a gap and it's now at 15 seconds and I'm sure that it's going to stick so I'm just going to put out 850 watts for the next 55 seconds to bridge at 60km/hr on a windy day but I'm going to make sure that I jump so hard that I will just happen to not bring anyone else up there with me that I don't want to.
If I had to take a guess, I would think that Kloden will be in Contador's camp when this all plays out. Lance taking the win from Kloden that day a few years ago could come back into the fray when it comes time to choose sides. One would assume that Haimar would be on Contador's side but you never know on that one.

There is always the possibility that this is all tactical on Astana's part but the evidence and prior tour strategies say otherwise. Personally, I can't wait until it plays out as if what I feel to be true plays out, it's going to be a great tour not only from both a tactical and strength standpoint, but if the time gaps between Alberto/Lance are close, we're going to see some cut throat racing inside a team. If either Lance or Alberto have a really bad day, then one will most likely get behind the other so as not to be a complete jackass.

 

[issoisso]

Bruyneel interview on ITV:

-Surprised at what happened today
-Lance is not the leader

 

[Anonymous]

to quote lance today, just shown on itv.

i prefer to stay out of the politics.... but ive won the tour seven times, i deserve a little credit... we have to go with two leaders... "

One thing i would ask, and im not going to start a new thread like some...

WHY ISNT LANCE A CONTENDER?

Is it because he appeared to struggle in the first few weeks of the giro
Is it because hes been out three years
Is it because hes simply not good enough...

(he looked stronger as the giro went on and it was his first race back, and i think hes looking as strong and focused as ever)..

I dont think he we will win, but hes probably the only person in the field that i WOULD NOT write off..

 

[Returnofthewolf]

Lordstrong was the best GC rider in the split, Astana should drill it everytime.
Basic.

Some of you guys have the tactical acumen of Chris Boardman.

 

[Anonymous]

The report that put the question to Hincapie whether Armstrong was given a heads up about the break was interesting. If he was, than you can ask some serious questions about Armstrong -- but as it stands he was both lucky and smart.

I doubt that Contador is worried about being 19 seconds down on Lance. Contador was doing what he needed to do -- watch Evans, Sastre, Menchov and Andy S. They are his challengers, not Armstrong.

watch the race from about 60k out. LA was constantly right up near the front, keeping out of trouble and being in the right place.. AC wasnt.. simple.. But no luck about it, thats experience..

 

[Publicus]

to quote lance today, just shown on itv.

i prefer to stay out of the politics.... but ive won the tour seven times, i deserve a little credit... we have to go with two leaders... "

Lance is a hyper-competitive cat, so I was under no illusion that he was going to ride for Contador. Contador will have to make it clear when the road heads up hill that Lance isn't the man. If he can't, then he's going to have to deal with a 37 year old 7-Time Tour de France winner with growing confidence.

 

[richwagmn]

to quote lance today, just shown on itv.

i prefer to stay out of the politics.... but ive won the tour seven times, i deserve a little credit... we have to go with two leaders... "

One thing i would ask, and im not going to start a new thread like some...

WHY ISNT LANCE A CONTENDER?

Of course he's a contender. I still think he's an unknown quantity at this point. Was reading that he never finished below 3rd in an individual TT in his prior wins. Obviously that didn't happen. And not to beat a dead horse but... he NEVER stayed with any of the leaders during the Giro climbs. Maybe he's ridden himself into perfect shape but that's just speculation.

We'll know a lot more this weekend.

 

[richwagmn]

watch the race from about 60k out. LA was constantly right up near the front, keeping out of trouble and being in the right place.. AC wasnt.. simple.. But no luck about it, thats experience..

Well he's always been good at positioning though Hincapie may have tipped him off.

 

[Publicus]

I dont think he we will win, but hes probably the only person in the field that i WOULD NOT write off..

Now that's an odd thing to say. So you would write off Contador? I certainly think Lance has an opportunity to place high, even make podium. However, I think that is going to require the team sacrificing itself to make it happen. And yes the Giro has an impact on how I view him. As well Stage 1. He was going all out. He doesn't have what he use to and frankly it showed. As someone else said Contador has that look that Lance use to have.

But Lance is a competitor. He's going to fight until there is no fight left. I just don't think his best will be enough anymore to win or bet your team on (a la Michael Jordan during his 2 post-retirement return with the Wizards).

 

[Amsterhammer]

I dont think he we will win, but hes probably the only person in the field that i WOULD NOT write off..

Pretty much my point of view now. He has always been a 'contender', though the prevailing pre-race climate on this forum might have suggested otherwise. I think that all the other contenders, just like millions watching at home and those of us talking on forums, are eagerly waiting for the first serious climbing because that will answer the question whether he's a 'serious' contender, or just one of the top 10.

No doubt, he'll climb better than he did in the Giro, but will that 'better' be good enough? None of us know, the other riders don't know, and I guess that Lance doesn't know for sure either. But whatever happens, any day he spends in yellow will be a major media and pr event, and a boost for the sport - at least as far as the 'general public' goes.

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

Because we all know that when it comes down to it (a) he won't be there in the mountains and (b) he will definitely work for Andy or Frank. We've seen that play before and we know how it plays out. The Astana Drama is well . . . it's like Young and the Restless for cycling fans. You know it's mostly projection by the media, but you turn in any way to see what will happen next!

LOL. I had not thought of it that way and I have to agree. The drama is interesting. I think when you look back at how "boring" (they were never really that boring though) some of the Tours were when Senor Lance was riding this is like base jumping on acid.

 

[velomuse]

lance is team leader?

Does anyone think that if somone abandoned Lance when he was the team leader (back when) that he wouldn't be upset (to say the least). There was no doubt, until today, that Contrador was the leader and Lance left him to benefit himself and not the team and certainly in defiance of Contrador's place in the team. Am I missing something here? It seems it was premeditated and planned, courtesy of Hincapie, but in any case it was not what I would call team spirit on Lances part. He may have gained time but I suspect he has disrupted the team's psyche.

 

[mambo#5]

To all Lance Haters. Here's an interesting bit of news about the gap today, as told by a french cyclist Christophe Le Mevel who got stuck behind Alberto Contador's wheel.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h_4P9Cz-q1GMoMLy2h9PGBlMsO9w

 

[RichCT]

.......This will play well into Astana's hands because Contador has the talent to make it up in the mountains and ITT.

This definitely does not make Lance outright team leader though. To make up some time in a lucky break doesn't mean he his stronger than Contador or more likely to win. Stage 1 showed Contador's strength and he will only get stronger in the mountains.

Very true, but with Lance starting so early in stage 1, he really didn't have any good times to go against. Had he started after Contador, he may have been put up a better time.

 

[Anonymous]

Very true, but with Lance starting so early in stage 1, he really didn't have any good times to go against. Had he started after Contador, he may have been put up a better time.

Do you actually know anything about how a TT is ridden? Um, they have been doing this for years and do so very precisely. TT's aren't some downtown crit. Lance rode with very stringent physiological parameters just as did all of the real contenders. The only thing that would have altered it is if there had been major wind differences. There weren't.

 

[Anonymous]

Now that's an odd thing to say. So you would write off Contador? I certainly think Lance has an opportunity to place high, even make podium. However, I think that is going to require the team sacrificing itself to make it happen. And yes the Giro has an impact on how I view him. As well Stage 1. He was going all out. He doesn't have what he use to and frankly it showed. As someone else said Contador has that look that Lance use to have.

But Lance is a competitor. He's going to fight until there is no fight left. I just don't think his best will be enough anymore to win or bet your team on (a la Michael Jordan during his 2 post-retirement return with the Wizards).

i did say probably, but yes, LA is the last person i would write off because you just never know...

How you win the tour.
Fitness
Talent/Ability
Experience

Ok.. Alberto, we know he has an A for talent, but today proved again, as well as paris nice, why I amongst others still dont rave about AC in the way that some do. I think tactically he is missing something, so a B
Fitness, he certainly looks in good form, but its a three week race, but lets give him an A anyway.. so thats AAB

Lance, Experience, obviously an A, he proved it again today, right place, right time. Talent, undoubted, another A, the greatest tour rider of the last 20 years. So it comes down to fitness. Does he have it? We dont know, yes not the greatest TT but then neither was levis, but levis comments "im not 100%, but i dont want to be yet, its a three week race"... Nobody knows what lances form is, or is going to be. We cant base it on the giro, it was his second major race in four years, his first tour in three years, and hed just broken his collarbone (and still finished 12th and got stronger and stronger as it went on..) if lances fitness hits B hes gonna give alberto a run for the money because of his superior experience, but what if he does hit form..

Regardless of what you think of him, regardless of what the other riders think of him, of how hes been out three years, the collarbone break etc, only a fool would completely write off Lance Armstrong.

I dont think he will win, but if he did, i wouldnt be in the slighest bit surprised.

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone think that if somone abandoned Lance when he was the team leader (back when) that he wouldn't be upset (to say the least). There was no doubt, until today, that Contrador was the leader and Lance left him to benefit himself and not the team and certainly in defiance of Contrador's place in the team. Am I missing something here? It seems it was premeditated and planned, courtesy of Hincapie, but in any case it was not what I would call team spirit on Lances part. He may have gained time but I suspect he has disrupted the team's psyche.

and hincapies purpose would be what?
The only thing hincapie was bothered about today was getting cav the win, not helping lance get 40 seconds on alberto contador..

talk about conspiricy theories

 

[Amsterhammer]

I dont think he will win, but if he didnt, i wouldnt be in the slighest bit surprised.

Uh, I think you mean 'did'.