Lance now Astana team leader...

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Jun 25, 2009
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Hmmm I wonder if some of the most vocal posters here have done very little or no racing and base their opinions on what they see on TV or read...

Re the split:
Lance did good, Contador did bad... but... Contador looks good enough that it wont matter.
Unless Lance is a lot stronger than he looks it has only improved Astanas cause in every way.

Forget all the stuff about who pulled and who did not and who left who behind... ffs have any of you guys ever been in a crosswind race with a full team of such strong guys pulling like that???
Nearly impossible to get those guys back.
If Contador wanted to keep his gap on LA he would have been on his wheel or in front of him.
He either did not care or he made a mistake.

Re the Stage 1 ITT:
LA does state on his own video upload that he did not go all out... take that any way you want.
Also, without a doubt the ITT can still be affected by emotion and tactics regardless of power monitoring, threshold etc... as long as you have some power in reserve.. and willing to take more risks.

Finally of course LA is riding for himself, as is Contador.. right or wrong it was always going to be this way, it cracks me up that it is even being discussed.
Was his methodology/mental intensity not demonstrated over and over for nearly a decade????
It is only making it a more interesting race... without LA there would be no conjecture...Contador would be a boring, foregone conclusion...oh wait... just like LA was all those years...ROFL

;)
 
May 21, 2009
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Irish2009 said:
I think Amstrong was sending a message to Contador today(I'M BACK AND I'M STILL NUMBER 1).

Meanwhile, Contador the Hill Ninja is sitting back, going "Ok, old man, you can luck out. Let's wait for the Tourmalet and Ventoux and Bornard and Colombiere and see who's the man now."

I'm guessing it's not Lance

This whole Lance thing is a massive red herring.
 
Threshold said:
Re the Stage 1 ITT:
LA does state on his own video upload that he did not go all out... take that any way you want.
Also, without a doubt the ITT can still be affected by emotion and tactics regardless of power monitoring, threshold etc... as long as you have some power in reserve.. and willing to take more risks.

I certainly haven ridden professional, but I know what I saw and Lance was absolutely gassed at about 3 KM to go on Stage 1. He rode as hard as he could according to him and suggesting otherwise in that video is only fooling himself and his fans. Too many self-serving statements for my taste. If, as he says his form is as good as it was back in 2002 (and much better than 2003), then any statements to the contrary thereafter means either the first statement was a lie or he's making excuses.

I'm going to say it was an excuse. Because he's talking pretty big now.
 
Threshold said:
Forget all the stuff about who pulled and who did not and who left who behind... ffs have any of you guys ever been in a crosswind race with a full team of such strong guys pulling like that???
Nearly impossible to get those guys back.

So you're telling us that team Columbia is stronger than all of the other teams behind in the main group behind? Quite doubtful. More likely is that the other teams were okay with letting LA have 30-40 seconds and not worried enough to work very very hard to bring back the front group.

Threshold said:
If Contador wanted to keep his gap on LA he would have been on his wheel or in front of him.
He either did not care or he made a mistake.

Here I agree with you.

Threshold said:
Re the Stage 1 ITT:
LA does state on his own video upload that he did not go all out... take that any way you want.
Also, without a doubt the ITT can still be affected by emotion and tactics regardless of power monitoring, threshold etc... as long as you have some power in reserve.. and willing to take more risks.

You question whether or not people on here have raced and then are naive enough to buy someone's line about NOT going all-out in a ITT, much less the prologue TT of the biggest race in the World? Come on. You know very well the entire point of an ITT is to go as hard as you can for the duration.

Threshold said:
Finally of course LA is riding for himself, as is Contador.. right or wrong it was always going to be this way, it cracks me up that it is even being discussed.
Was his methodology/mental intensity not demonstrated over and over for nearly a decade????
It is only making it a more interesting race... without LA there would be no conjecture...Contador would be a boring, foregone conclusion...oh wait... just like LA was all those years...ROFL

I fully agree with you. But why then would you think that LA would not go as hard as he could in the TT if he's riding for himself. The TT showed that he does not have what Contador and even Evans has. But the mountains will show us.

Good post BTW.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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@Publicus
I have no idea what LA has in his tank as he has proven in the past that he can pull off the deception of poor form.

I will say though that I doubt he is at the level of any previous winning form, if he is, he has fooled me, and ur right if he is not then he has been dodging and weaving, possibly waiting to arrive at that form.
 
Publicus said:
I certainly haven ridden professional, but I know what I saw and Lance was absolutely gassed at about 3 KM to go on Stage 1. He rode as hard as he could according to him and suggesting otherwise in that video is only fooling himself and his fans. Too many self-serving statements for my taste. If, as he says his form is as good as it was back in 2002 (and much better than 2003), then any statements to the contrary thereafter means either the first statement was a lie or he's making excuses.

I'm going to say it was an excuse. Because he's talking pretty big now.
Lance stated quite clearly in the warm up prior to the TT that the key was not to go too hard at the beginning, because then you'll burn out before the top and lose time recovering. When he was questioned about this afterwards he reiterated his approach. Levi, on the other hand, said the key was to go all out from the beginning.

I think Lance did what he said he was going to, and at some level realizes he made a tactical error (though of course he won't admit it).

But I've never seen him deny that he went as hard as he could anywhere except the beginning.
 
Threshold said:
Hmmm I wonder if some of the most vocal posters here have done very little or no racing and base their opinions on what they see on TV or read...

Their opinion is proportionally based on their hatred of the man. It's imperative to them that Lance be a good lap dog for their wet dream leader Contador. This one stage is truly a non-event to a rider that is confident he is the strongest. But if he's uncertain, immature, or just a whiner much will be made of it. One things for certain, if Contador doesn't have character its going to show.
 
SpeedWay said:
This one stage is truly a non-event to a rider that is confident he is the strongest. But if he's uncertain, immature, or just a whiner much will be made of it. One things for certain, if Contador doesn't have character its going to show.

For once I agree with you. Why don't you make more constructive posts like this instead of trolling all the time?
 
Jul 6, 2009
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Maybe Contador didn't hold the wheel on purpose? Regardless, the split put many leaders in the 2nd group, and Astana could be seen NOT coming through at the front of the cross-wind echelon, but staying back a ways.

Silence-Lotto and Saxo Bank were 2 teams trying close the gap in vain.

No one but perhaps the best climber in the world, Contador, would feel okay with losing .5 minute in the 1st week.

Drama aside, Astana retain the team GC lead with 4 in the top 10, with Lance swapping spots with AC more or less.

Columbia will take the TTT by :20 over Astana, with Saxo another :10 back.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
Lance stated quite clearly in the warm up prior to the TT that the key was not to go too hard at the beginning, because then you'll burn out before the top and lose time recovering. When he was questioned about this afterwards he reiterated his approach. Levi, on the other hand, said the key was to go all out from the beginning.

I think Lance did what he said he was going to, and at some level realizes he made a tactical error (though of course he won't admit it).

But I've never seen him deny that he went as hard as he could anywhere except the beginning.

Don't disagree with any of what you wrote. He didn't go hard uphill and laid it all out on the downhill. Levi did the same. As did Kloden and Contador. Lance says he rode as hard as he could (which I believe).
 
Threshold said:
@Publicus
I have no idea what LA has in his tank as he has proven in the past that he can pull off the deception of poor form.

I will say though that I doubt he is at the level of any previous winning form, if he is, he has fooled me, and ur right if he is not then he has been dodging and weaving, possibly waiting to arrive at that form.

I'm not trying to guess either. I'm just repeating what Lance said about his form prior to Stage 1 in interviews. It was only after the stage that he started talking about not having raced for a month or being out of competition for 3.5 years, etc.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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@Bikecentric... good reply...hehe nuff with the back slapping.

The thing about the crosswind is that it takes a similar, in fact greater physical/mental commitment by another team or group on the chase as you can only get a limited number on the front.

I disagree on the TT in that I think with such a technical course there is always time to gain.
I accept that we differ, perhaps that would show in our own attitude in a race....

As I have said I dont know what form LA has and I dont think for a minute that LA is telling us exactly what is "his truth".
The only reason LA would not go all out in the TT is he feels he is the strongest, and can smash AC in the hills but I find that hard to believe.
I think he was near max but as has been said by Ninety5rpm I think he made a slight error of judgement.
 
SpeedWay said:
Their opinion is proportionally based on their hatred of the man. It's imperative to them that Lance be a good lap dog for their wet dream leader Contador. This one stage is truly a non-event to a rider that is confident he is the strongest. But if he's uncertain, immature, or just a whiner much will be made of it. One things for certain, if Contador doesn't have character its going to show.

After watching him race after a similar event happened in Paris-Nice, I'm not at all worried about Contador and his confidence in his abilities. I think this weekend is going to be interesting on a variety of levels.

What I find a bit funny is Lance Armstrong's pre-race comments, post-Stage 1 comments and his comments post-Stage 3.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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This "much ado about nothing"

Lance was in the right place at the right time. The lack of reaction from the rest of the riders said let LA get a few seconds in the long run it should not matter.

In my opinion Astana didn't send anyone to bridge the gap simply because the time gains were not as important as the TTT tomorrow. Let Colombia drain themselves, let Saxo chase to get Andy and Frank back up there. At the end of the day for Astana there is little change.
 
Must have been an interesting team dinner

I wonder how that went.

What's worse, there are only a couple guys on the team that speak Spanish and Contador doesn't speak English.

I hope it's like 1986 all over again.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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@Publicus I agree he has definately been doing verbal gymnastics either for reasons of insecurity or tactics.

@Speedway, yes the "rage is rife"... and yes time will tell.......
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Publicus said:
I certainly haven ridden professional, but I know what I saw and Lance was absolutely gassed at about 3 KM to go on Stage 1. He rode as hard as he could according to him and suggesting otherwise in that video is only fooling himself and his fans. Too many self-serving statements for my taste. If, as he says his form is as good as it was back in 2002 (and much better than 2003), then any statements to the contrary thereafter means either the first statement was a lie or he's making excuses.

I'm going to say it was an excuse. Because he's talking pretty big now.

Exactly. He gave it all he could and suggesting that only someone who raced would understand he didn't is pure bullsh!t. This was the first stage of the Tour de F'ing France, not the Safeway Grand Prix in the next town over.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Well said - much ado about nothing. The only goal of the GC riders the first week is to avoid any crashes or major gaps, and so far they've succeeded.

Granted, there were probably psych points scored in today's stage. We still don't know the strongest rider for Astana, but we now know who the smartest one is.

The first week is for the sprinters. The 'race of truth' begins this weekend. It's going to be interesting.
 
BikeCentric said:
For once I agree with you. Why don't you make more constructive posts like this instead of trolling all the time?

I was responding to a post by someone, who could have done a voice over dub for Jimi Hendrix's question/answer, Have you ever been experienced?
Tip - put those who troll on your ignore list(i.e. I don't really care if you agree with me or not).
 
Jun 25, 2009
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@Thoughtforfood ur obviously referring to me, I made the statement re race experience relative to the crosswind tactics if you read it any other way you misunderstood my post.
I am sorry for not making it clearer
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Threshold said:
@Thoughtforfood ur obviously referring to me, I made the statement re race experience relative to the crosswind tactics if you read it any other way you misunderstood my post.
I am sorry for not making it clearer

Then the mistake is mine. Apologizes.
 
Jun 29, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Yea, his first stage back at the TdF after retirement, I am sure he was holding back.....

They're not saying he was holding back. They contend that no matter how hard he was pushing himself, having a carrot, or time split, could have made an even bigger difference. You can't discount that splits give the later riders an advantage, otherwise why have the start order the way they do?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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richwagmn said:
Of course he's a contender. I still think he's an unknown quantity at this point. Was reading that he never finished below 3rd in an individual TT in his prior wins. Obviously that didn't happen. And not to beat a dead horse but... he NEVER stayed with any of the leaders during the Giro climbs. Maybe he's ridden himself into perfect shape but that's just speculation.

We'll know a lot more this weekend.

I was thinking the exact same thing, until I remembered that he finished 7th in the opening prologue in 2003... granted, not his best TdF, but he still won the overall.

The big thing that LA has in is favor over AC is experience, plain and simple... and that's a huge advantage. Experience regarding tactics, psychology and not to mention... fitness. LA is probably a lot more tuned in to his body/form at age 37 than AC at age 24... Lance knows what his body is telling him, how his condition is, etc... I honestly believe that he wouldn't be racing if he didn't think he could win.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Finally watched the stage. I didn't exacly see Astana going to the wall in this break today. As a matter of fact, when Popo was pulling it looked pretty tame to me.

Gotta wonder about Columbia today though. Why waste so much energy at this point? Stapleton was saying they have some GC aspirations and expected other teams to work since they can't go to the wall every day.