Lance now Astana team leader...

[schnebit]

Exactly. He gave it all he could and suggesting that only someone who raced would understand he didn't is pure bullsh!t. This was the first stage of the Tour de F'ing France, not the Safeway Grand Prix in the next town over.

Man... he absolutely gave it all he could... you don't hold back in a TT. EVER. The problem is pacing, pure and simple. That, and his form probably isn't 100%, yet.

He also said that he's the lightest that he's ever been in prior TdF's... that could DEFINITELY reduce his power in the TT's.

However, it WOULD help his climbing. Maybe he figures that since Alberto's climbing is much better than average while his TT ability is slightly better than average (and it looks like he put a lot of work into building that strength), it would be to Lance's benefit to sacrifice a little TT ability to gain some strength on the climbs.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Don't disagree with any of what you wrote. He didn't go hard uphill and laid it all out on the downhill. Levi did the same. As did Kloden and Contador. Lance says he rode as hard as he could (which I believe).

Levi did not do the same. Levi went hard from the beginning of the uphill; Lance took it relatively easy at first, and then went as hard as he could from some point into the climb.

Levi went as hard as he could the whole way; Lance did not. At least that's what I can glean from what both of them have consistently stated, both before and after the TT.

 

[Seth Bullock]

Armstrong makes the break, others don't...

IMO it could be due to luck, mind games, tactics or a rift in the team. Given Armstrong's experience I'm ruling out luck for the most part. RE the "rift", there's definitely the possibility of that for sure, but it could also be the mind games scenario - does anyone really know 100% for sure if there is a rift or is the team using the media to create one? I'm going with mind games and tactics. Armstrong gaining 40sec on the other GC contenders (of whom I put Contador as the strongest - climber, TTer) means there is a definite chance of Astana occupying at least 1 but possibly 2 or even 3 places on the podium. Contador should be able to get the deficit back in the mountains without too much trouble but Sastre and the Schlecks given their TTing abilities will have to get much more. Evans IMO is on a par with Leipheimer and Kloden but then there is the TTT tonight.... Menchov has a lot of work to do. Further Armstrong in the break and racing to get away (from other GC contenders including Contador) fuels the "team rift" scenario i.e. mind games....

Either way it will be very exciting to see how all of this unfolds....

 

[Publicus]

Levi did not do the same. Levi went hard from the beginning of the uphill; Lance took it relatively easy at first, and then went as hard as he could from some point into the climb.

Levi went as hard as he could the whole way; Lance did not. At least that's what I can glean from what both of them have consistently stated, both before and after the TT.

I'm not sure how you are drawing that conclusion. Is it because Levi was faster uphill than Lance? I don't think of the Astana guys went ball$ out on the climb, even Contador. And Lance didn't take it relatively easy at any point. Thanks to Versus I was treated to all 20 minutes of his ride. At no point did it look like he was going relatively easy. He may not have been at his LT on the climb, but he wasn't holding too much back. If he was, then his form is worse than I thought since, as I noted, he was absolutely gassed with 3 KM to go.

 

[JeffreyPerry]

"Astana will not get 9 seconds on Highroad-HTC in the TTT, and definitely not 40 seconds on SaxoBank (even though they are not that strong). Astana are too disorganized to work effectively as a team in the TTT"

Wow guy, apparantly you didnt see the part for 32 kilometers where columbia pulled like crazy to maintain that gap... hmmmm....pulling that hard for that long will definitley hurt the legs in the TEAM... TIME...TRIAL...tomorrow.....Its a guarantee Martin is gonna lose those precious 9 seconds. I can agree that 40 seconds to pull back on saxo will be difficult but come on, everyone on the forum know the schleks cant tt worth a crap,(maybe the yellow jersey can just drag the whole team for 38 k's tomorrow- he didnt pulled today...) and they all pulled in the second group. The only team that did not pull in the second group was Astana...nice and rested legs for tomorrow. oh except for zubeldia and popo. im sure theyll manage...
To all the ones that bash on Armstrong, just let it be, half of you would not be even watching the race if it wasnt for him and what hes done for cycling in general.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Intermediate times
1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana 0:11:22
5 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0:11:30
9 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:11:39

Finish times
2 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana 0:19:50
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0:20:02
10 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:20:12

Hmm. Armstrong lost 17 seconds to AC, and 9 seconds to LL on the climb.
By the end, he lost an additional 5 seconds to AC (total: 22), and one more second to LL (total: 10).

So Contador beat them both going up and down.

Lance's explanation that he didn't go all out from the beginning may be true, but it does not fully explain the time that he lost.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

RE the "rift", there's definitely the possibility of that for sure, but it could also be the mind games scenario - does anyone really know 100% for sure if there is a rift or is the team using the media to create one? I'm going with mind games and tactics.

Armstrong is denying the rift on Twitter ("At dinner with the team. Despite what some might think, morale is sky high. ") That bodes well for the theory that there is a rift. If making people believe there is a rift is the intent, why deny it on Twitter?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I'm not sure how you are drawing that conclusion. Is it because Levi was faster uphill than Lance? I don't think of the Astana guys went ball$ out on the climb, even Contador. And Lance didn't take it relatively easy at any point. Thanks to Versus I was treated to all 20 minutes of his ride. At no point did it look like he was going relatively easy. He may not have been at his LT on the climb, but he wasn't holding too much back. If he was, then his form is worse than I thought since, as I noted, he was absolutely gassed with 3 KM to go.

I'm going by their own words. I don't think you can tell if someone is going 100% or 85-90% by looking at him ride on TV.

 

[elapid]

Wow guy, apparantly you didnt see the part for 32 kilometers where columbia pulled like crazy to maintain that gap... hmmmm....pulling that hard for that long will definitley hurt the legs in the TEAM... TIME...TRIAL...tomorrow.....Its a guarantee Martin is gonna lose those precious 9 seconds. I can agree that 40 seconds to pull back on saxo will be difficult but come on, everyone on the forum know the schleks cant tt worth a crap,(maybe the yellow jersey can just drag the whole team for 38 k's tomorrow- he didnt pulled today...) and they all pulled in the second group. The only team that did not pull in the second group was Astana...nice and rested legs for tomorrow. oh except for zubeldia and popo. im sure theyll manage...
To all the ones that bash on Armstrong, just let it be, half of you would not be even watching the race if it wasnt for him and what hes done for cycling in general.

We are in agreement on SaxoBank: 40 seconds should be sufficient, but they are not the strongest TTT because of the Schlecks. Agree to disagree on Columbia-HTC. Doesn't matter how hard they pulled today for 20 km, they'll recover by tomorrow and do a good TTT. They backed up again today after pulling hard yesterday, just the same as they did day in and day out in the Giro this year and the Giro and TdF last year. They will not pack their bags and call it a day because they worked hard for 20 km! As for Astana, it will be interesting to see how unified they are. Nothing like a TTT to show how team unity.

 

[The GCW]

Experience.

I haven't read all the posts...

but it must be pointed out,

Lance has more experience and that's why He pulled ahead today. He knows where to be; always has...

If this race comes down being determined by He who has more experience, then Lance is going to come out on top.

Experience will be a factor in racers even making it to Paris.

Fate, luck and all has a factor too, but any more examples of Lance showing signs of experience leading to larger time gaps could change everything.

-0

And then,

This all boils down to what happens in the mountains though.

Let's get the 2 to the base of the mountains and then see what happens.

That's where the show starts.

Contador has to be angry.

The mountains will be His oppertunity to express His anger. If Lance can answer Contador's anger in the mountains then there is no talking anymore.

But for now; before the mountains, it's all small talk.

Bring Us the high mountains.

 

[krebs303]

, half of you would not be even watching the race if it wasnt for him and what hes done for cycling in general.

Sorry I was watching when Lance was doing Tri's and was dos pelotas.
Please feel free to make a list of all Lance has done for cycling in general and post. Extra credit for any originality.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I used to really like Contador but I am reviewing that after his selfish and ill thought comments today.

"I do want to comment on the tactics of the team," he said.
"Everyone can draw their own conclusions".

Does he not realise that by saying that then thats exactly what we will do? This thread is over 100 post and the Astana one is at a zillion.

Why couldn't he just admit that he has to have Domino's deliver to his room every night and that he cries himself to sleep!

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

If you really think that Bruyneel is calling the shots, you are mistaken. Lance has been calling the shots for years at postal and discovery as well as at Astana. That does not take anything away from Bruyneel, as one rider in a race cannot do it alone, but make no mistake, Lance is the boss.

.

and just how do you know this?

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Do you actually know anything about how a TT is ridden? Um, they have been doing this for years and do so very precisely. TT's aren't some downtown crit. Lance rode with very stringent physiological parameters just as did all of the real contenders. The only thing that would have altered it is if there had been major wind differences. There weren't.

actually the wind conditions were about 2-3mph higher during Armstrongs time on course. Let's not confuse facts with conjecture, it makes these forums really boring

 

[auscyclefan94]

Astana tatics

This is a little comment about armstrong from Contador:
"I don't want to express an opinion on the tactics of the team," said Contador. "I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions. In any case, the Tour is not going to be decided by what happened today. It was just another race situation."

I think that is evidence that Contador is not happy that lance was in the split and that he was losing time. I don't think he would of been happy that Lance, Zubeldia and Popovich were riding with Team Columbia. How much will Columbia and Saxo Bank have after having done a lot of chasing and being in the wind?

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I'm not sure how you are drawing that conclusion. Is it because Levi was faster uphill than Lance? I don't think of the Astana guys went ball$ out on the climb, even Contador. And Lance didn't take it relatively easy at any point. Thanks to Versus I was treated to all 20 minutes of his ride. At no point did it look like he was going relatively easy. He may not have been at his LT on the climb, but he wasn't holding too much back. If he was, then his form is worse than I thought since, as I noted, he was absolutely gassed with 3 KM to go.

just like he was gassed when he gave the infamous look to Ulrich?

 

[Publicus]

Intermediate times
1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana 0:11:22
5 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0:11:30
9 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:11:39

Finish times
2 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana 0:19:50
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0:20:02
10 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:20:12

Hmm. Armstrong lost 17 seconds to AC, and 9 seconds to LL on the climb.
By the end, he lost an additional 5 seconds to AC (total: 22), and one more second to LL (total: 10).

So Contador beat them both going up and down.

Lance's explanation that he didn't go all out from the beginning may be true, but it does not fully explain the time that he lost.

And you can't judge their relative efforts by their times. Lance wasn't the last person up the hill, so again, I don't know how you conclude he was taking it relatively easy. Moreover, he's been a fountain of self-serving statements over the last couple of days, so I don't put much stock in his statements anymore. He wasnt the stronger man that day. I hope he doesn't conclude that he was the stronger man today.

 

[Publicus]

This is a little comment about armstrong from Contador:
"I don't want to express an opinion on the tactics of the team," said Contador. "I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions. In any case, the Tour is not going to be decided by what happened today. It was just another race situation."

I think that is evidence that Contador is not happy that lance was in the split and that he was losing time. I don't think he would of been happy that Lance, Zubeldia and Popovich were riding with Team Columbia. How much will Columbia and Saxo Bank have after having done a lot of chasing and being in the wind?

I think this is evidence that Contador isn't sweating this one bit. At the end of the day, the right decision was not to chase down the lead group and he really can't question it. And this race isn't going to be decided here.

 

[klodifan]

"...To all the ones that bash on Armstrong, just let it be, half of you would not be even watching the race if it wasnt for him and what hes done for cycling in general.

Now that's just a ridiculous statement based on emotion, nothing more.

 

[BroDeal]

Now that's just a ridiculous statement based on emotion, nothing more.

Actually it is based on man love, and he is projecting it onto the rest of us.

 

[Publicus]

just like he was gassed when he gave the infamous look to Ulrich?

I guess he really duped himself. Went so far as to lose time to make it more realistic. Btw, it's 2009, not 2001.

 

[Anonymous]

actually the wind conditions were about 2-3mph higher during Armstrongs time on course. Let's not confuse facts with conjecture, it makes these forums really boring

Lets not confuse facts with consequential differences in wind speed......

Another less than 10 post fanboy that will be gone in days......

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Did George put his radio on the same channel as Popo and Lance? The "cover" of helping Mark Cavendish almost worked, but in reality the "old team" was back in place. Contador got screwed, period.

 

[frizzlefry]

Another less than 10 post fanboy that will be gone in days......

And that must make you the village idiot since you have been here longer and got more posts.

 

[_nm___]

This is a little comment about armstrong from Contador:
"I don't want to express an opinion on the tactics of the team," said Contador. "I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions. In any case, the Tour is not going to be decided by what happened today. It was just another race situation."

I think that is evidence that Contador is not happy that lance was in the split and that he was losing time. I don't think he would of been happy that Lance, Zubeldia and Popovich were riding with Team Columbia. How much will Columbia and Saxo Bank have after having done a lot of chasing and being in the wind?

is it me or did any body else also get the impression that A Zubeldia was taking very, very short turns at the front of the break today. almost like he was only pretending.