Lance now Astana team leader...

[Ninety5rpm]

Lance Armstrong didn't attack but he did ride on the front to get a gap on AC. He definetly wasn't going for a stage. Why would someone ride on the front if their main leader is losing sometime to some possible GC contenders? Lance's main tatic was to gain time on AC. I definetly think Hincapie gave lance the heads up on the pull away. They were definetly talking about it. Columbia's move was definetly pre meditated but Lance seems to think different! I'm not 100% sure if AC let the gap go but Contador definetly did get caught out.

I hear that the wives of Hincapie, Rogers, Zubeldia and Popovych all got brand new convertible Mercedes delivered to their homes today from an anonymous gift-giver.

 

[patswana]

Everyone knows that in at least 6 of the 7 years (maybe not in '99), the entire US Postal and Disco teams were built around one man, and one man only. No "three-pronged attack" that T-Mobile or ONCE tried to throw at him, everything was built around Lance, and no personal aspirations were allowed. If a team member had done something like what Lance pulled today, Lance would have taken him out to the woodshed and made him sorry he'd been born. No dissension was brooked on any account. They actually said that having one designated team leader was better than having multiple leaders, as it made everyone united. Now, to hear Lance and Bruyneel spout about how it's actually better to have more than one leader, that it makes sense, just makes me laugh. Everything Lance does is self-serving, and his recent actions on and off the bike shows that. "I'm just here to have fun". Can you imagine if one of his teammates had said that back on Postal or Disco? But it's ok for him to say it now because he's Lance. THis whole thing is making Bruyneel look like a completetely ineffectual bumbler in his handling of the situation. Of course the man has directed two riders to 8 Tour wins, plus a few Giros and a Vuelta, which is why it's so bizarre seeing him sound like such a fence-straddler now.

I agree.
It is a bit like the old story that Armstrong just "trained harder" in his first 5 Tour wins. Then when he was out partying and shagging celebs when he was supposed to be training, it changed to him "training smarter". Yeah right.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Agreed on your first point, amazes me that some people think it is somehow wrong to expect the guys that are paid to work for you to do just that.

Don't think you will see AC a lot stronger than Lance on Friday, but if he is then I think you will see Lance move into the SD role, much as he will hate it. I think what you will see is Andy Schleck putting the hurt on everyone once Cancellara and Voigt have deadened the legs of most of the pretenders.

Cancellara and Voight are going to drop off while Leipheimer, Zubeldia and Kloden are still driving the Contador-Armstrong tandem up the mountain. Eventually only Evans, Sastre and A. Schleck will remain with 2-4 Astanas. That's when Contador will go.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

For those of you who have never raced in crosswinds (or just never raced)

- Noone "attacks" - If the guys at the front ride hard and bunch up at an angle to the wind they can set the riders behind in single file in the gutter. Somewhere down the line the peloton will break, as the guys in single file get no protection from the wind. In Dutch and Belgium this is a primary race tactic for ripping the field to shreds. In a matter of minutes the peloton can tear into 5 groups.

- The guys behind the front file should form a new echelon behind the first group, and work together to stay in sight. Often (surprisingly at pro level) they don't, they panic, guys try and bridge (always fail) and other guys look around for someone else to ride the gap shut.

- Saxo bank didn't ride the gap shut as they were on the front all day, and obviously tired. Garmin are obsessed with the TTT and don't want to waste energy. Rabo are stressed out about the Vienna bloodbank affair.

- The fact that Lotto and Cervelo didn't make an effort to chase it down says that neither team see Lance as a serious GC threat. Come the mountains 40 seconds is nothing.

- Columbia had planned to string the field out in the gutter and make an echelon at that place before the start. I'll bet any money Hincapie told Lance where to be.

- It isn't just Lance's experience that keeps him riding at the front in the best places. The other guys let him ride there. Where he rides (nestled in the middle behind the team driving the pack) is the place all the GC riders and sprinters want to be. Usually there is much competition, jostling etc to be there. Everyone knows it is career suicide to pi** an obsessive perma-angry egomaniac like Lance off, so he is allowed to ride there.

- Rabo riders were saying on Dutch TV that there was confusion in the race guide - and lots of riders assumed that the crosswind section where the field might split was a few km later than it actually was. This makes sense as Rabo and QuickStep are absolute masters at making/causing the cut in the crosswinds. Them not being there says something - although Rabo admittedly have other issues affecting their motivation.

And now some speculation:

- Armstrong is lying when he says they (Zubeldia and Popovych) didn't ride for ages until it was clear the break would stay away. He was looking round immediately and you could tell he was delighted.

- The first important steep climb of the race will see Contador get Armstrong back for that. I think only a few guys will be able to hold his wheel. I think Lance, Leipheimer, Sastre and Menchov will be left behind. I think pi**ing off the best pure climber in the race might prove to be a bad move by Lance.

- If Lance gets yellow after the TTT he will probably be pushing for Astana to use their strong riders to make an "all day train" for him in the mountains to set him up for the classic boring LA victory. Unlike the old days guys like Sastre, Schlecks, hell, even Evans won't be scared to attack that, and Lance will face a spectacular mutiny from Contador at some stage.

 

[Anonymous]

Lance Armstrong didn't attack but he did ride on the front to get a gap on AC. He definetly wasn't going for a stage. Why would someone ride on the front if their main leader is losing sometime to some possible GC contenders? Lance's main tatic was to gain time on AC <(1). I definetly think Hincapie gave lance the heads up on the pull away. They were definetly talking about it. <(2) Columbia's move was definetly pre meditated but Lance seems to think different! I'm not 100% sure if AC let the gap go but Contador definetly did get caught out.

(1)and evans and schleck and every other gc contenter... and just as importantly LEVI.. why is every going on about lance v ac, lance putting time into AC.. he put time into levi too, where was levi when al this went on.. OMG IS THERE A RIFT
2) definately? ok.. can you tell me at what K to go this conversation happened so i can go look, cos ive zipped through the 20k before the split and i cannot spot george and lance having this convo.. the only major convo i could spot was cav and cancellara having a good old chinwag

 

[auscyclefan94]

For those of you who have never raced in crosswinds (or just never raced)

- Noone "attacks" - If the guys at the front ride hard and bunch up at an angle to the wind they can set the riders behind in single file in the gutter. Somewhere down the line the peloton will break, as the guys in single file get no protection from the wind. In Dutch and Belgium this is a primary race tactic for ripping the field to shreds. In a matter of minutes the peloton can tear into 5 groups.

- Saxo bank didn't ride the gap shut as they were on the front all day, and obviously tired. Garmin are obsessed with the TTT and don't want to waste energy. Rabo are stressed out about the Vienna bloodbank affair.

- The fact that Lotto and Cervelo didn't make an effort to chase it down says that neither team see Lance as a serious GC threat. Come the mountains 40 seconds is nothing.

- Columbia had planned to string the field out in the gutter and make an echelon at that place before the start. I'll bet any money Hincapie told Lance where to be.

And now some speculation:

- Armstrong is lying when he says they (Zubeldia and Popovych) didn't ride for ages until it was clear the break would stay away. He was looking round immediately and you could tell he was delighted.

- If Lance gets yellow after the TTT he will probably be pushing for Astana to use their strong riders to make an "all day train" for him in the mountains to set him up for the classic boring LA victory. Unlike the old days guys like Sastre, Schlecks, hell, even Evans won't be scared to attack that, and Lance will face a spectacular mutiny from Contador at some stage.

If you look back at the footage Lotto(mainly), Saxo bank and Garmin were all chasing hard for different reasons. Garmin definetly were not riding to save themselves, but were riding hard to keep Wiggins in Contact with Cancellara in GC. Lotto made a big effort to chase with Cadel himself on the front with his team chasing. Saxo Bank did chase as bit for Schleck Bros.

I definetly agree that Hincapie warned Armstrong and i saw them on the telecast riding next to each other and most likely plotting. Armstrong called his men up once they got the gap with a 'come on' hand signal. If AC saw that i don't think he would be impressed. I don't think it will be as easy for lance this year in the mountains because since his era of winning the tour the riders are more willing to attack and they know lance is not like his 'old' self.

 

[Bagster]

Cancellara and Voight are going to drop off while Leipheimer, Zubeldia and Kloden are still driving the Contador-Armstrong tandem up the mountain. Eventually only Evans, Sastre and A. Schleck will remain with 2-4 Astanas. That's when Contador will go.

It was before the mountain I was referring to with Cancellara and Voigt. Their tactics will be similar to last year. They have to be because they have no GC contender who can TT so they will put the hurt on early in the race in classic Disco fashion

 

[auscyclefan94]

(1)and evans and schleck and every other gc contenter... and just as importantly LEVI.. why is every going on about lance v ac, lance putting time into AC.. he put time into levi too, where was levi when al this went on.. OMG IS THERE A RIFT
2) definately? ok.. can you tell me at what K to go this conversation happened so i can go look, cos ive zipped through the 20k before the split and i cannot spot george and lance having this convo.. the only major convo i could spot was cav and cancellara having a good old chinwag

I can't remember exactly when they were talking but it was between 140km and 100km to go mark. the reason why everyone is talking about the time gained From AC is because they are firstly the possible leaders of a super team, 2ndly in fighting at a team is great watch and read about + the comments in the press from those 2 riders who both wanting the leadership is controversial because it is the 7 time tdf winner V the new kid on the block. The reason why people are mainly talking LA's gain on AC because he lead the chase with Zubeldia and Popovich to get the time so Contador was stranded.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

This whole "event" was basically planned by Columbia to pi** Garmin off. Cavendish in particular makes regular digs at Garmin being obsessed with TTT's and trying to save energy to prepare for TTT. He did it right after the stage yesterday.

Columbia were annoyed that only them and Saxo were willing to ride up front and engineered this specifically to get at Garmin.

From what I saw Garmin tried to chase for about 1 minute before giving up and saving their legs for their big shot at a stage win today.

 

[Bagster]

For those of you who have never raced in crosswinds (or just never raced)

- Noone "attacks" - If the guys at the front ride hard and bunch up at an angle to the wind they can set the riders behind in single file in the gutter. Somewhere down the line the peloton will break, as the guys in single file get no protection from the wind. In Dutch and Belgium this is a primary race tactic for ripping the field to shreds. In a matter of minutes the peloton can tear into 5 groups.

- The guys behind the front file should form a new echelon behind the first group, and work together to stay in sight. Often (surprisingly at pro level) they don't, they panic, guys try and bridge (always fail) and other guys look around for someone else to ride the gap shut.

- Saxo bank didn't ride the gap shut as they were on the front all day, and obviously tired. Garmin are obsessed with the TTT and don't want to waste energy. Rabo are stressed out about the Vienna bloodbank affair.

- The fact that Lotto and Cervelo didn't make an effort to chase it down says that neither team see Lance as a serious GC threat. Come the mountains 40 seconds is nothing.

- Columbia had planned to string the field out in the gutter and make an echelon at that place before the start. I'll bet any money Hincapie told Lance where to be.

- It isn't just Lance's experience that keeps him riding at the front in the best places. The other guys let him ride there. Where he rides (nestled in the middle behind the team driving the pack) is the place all the GC riders and sprinters want to be. Usually there is much competition, jostling etc to be there. Everyone knows it is career suicide to pi** an obsessive perma-angry egomaniac like Lance off, so he is allowed to ride there.

- Rabo riders were saying on Dutch TV that there was confusion in the race guide - and lots of riders assumed that the crosswind section where the field might split was a few km later than it actually was. This makes sense as Rabo and QuickStep are absolute masters at making/causing the cut in the crosswinds. Them not being there says something - although Rabo admittedly have other issues affecting their motivation.

And now some speculation:

- Armstrong is lying when he says they (Zubeldia and Popovych) didn't ride for ages until it was clear the break would stay away. He was looking round immediately and you could tell he was delighted.

- The first important steep climb of the race will see Contador get Armstrong back for that. I think only a few guys will be able to hold his wheel. I think Lance, Leipheimer, Sastre and Menchov will be left behind. I think pi**ing off the best pure climber in the race might prove to be a bad move by Lance.

- If Lance gets yellow after the TTT he will probably be pushing for Astana to use their strong riders to make an "all day train" for him in the mountains to set him up for the classic boring LA victory. Unlike the old days guys like Sastre, Schlecks, hell, even Evans won't be scared to attack that, and Lance will face a spectacular mutiny from Contador at some stage.

I think you are full of it, but time will tell. Contador will not ride away on the weekend. If anyone rides away it will be Andy S.

 

[auscyclefan94]

This whole "event" was basically planned by Columbia to pi** Garmin off. Cavendish in particular makes regular digs at Garmin being obsessed with TTT's and trying to save energy to prepare for TTT. He did it right after the stage yesterday.

Columbia were annoyed that only them and Saxo were willing to ride up front and engineered this specifically to get at Garmin.

From what I saw Garmin tried to chase for about 1 minute before giving up and saving their legs for their big shot at a stage win today.

I understand Columbia being angry at everyone not chasing but if Columbia wants to **** garmin off they will have to beat them in the ttt. I don't think Garmin just focuses on the ttt because they have tried to setup Farrar for green and Vandevelde for Yellow. That's their plan for the tour and was their plan for the Giro. Cav's comments are hipocritical because he targets stages himself and gets Erik Zabel to film stage finishes for him. Cav is great rider but needs to keep "piehole' shut.

 

[Johnny Colnago]

Still laughing at VIOLA!

Viola?

****ing Americans...

 

[Zen Master]

- The first important steep climb of the race will see Contador get Armstrong back for that. I think only a few guys will be able to hold his wheel. I think Lance, Leipheimer, Sastre and Menchov will be left behind. I think pi**ing off the best pure climber in the race might prove to be a bad move by Lance.

+1

IMHO Alberto would probably eat him alive on friday

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I think you are full of it, but time will tell. Contador will not ride away on the weekend. If anyone rides away it will be Andy S.

which particular part do you feel is "full of it" and why?

 

[Bagster]

I understand Columbia being angry at everyone not chasing but if Columbia wants to **** garmin off they will have to beat them in the ttt. I don't think Garmin just focuses on the ttt because they have tried to setup Farrar for green and Vandevelde for Yellow. That's their plan for the tour and was their plan for the Giro. Cav's comments are hipocritical because he targets stages himself and gets Erik Zabel to film stage finishes for him. Cav is great rider but needs to keep "piehole' shut.

Getting Zabel to film stage finishes is more about coaching than anything else much the same as football teams and boxers study film footage of games and fights of the opposition.

Its not about being hippocritical, it's about a young guy having a go at the opposition, lighten up. Ali used to do it all the time

 

[Bagster]

which particular part do you feel is "full of it" and why?

Well to be fair, mainly your speculative comments.

If you watch the replay you will see that the Astana guys didn't starting taking pulls till about the 11Km mark from memory.

AC would be pretty dumb if he adopted an "i'll show Armstrong" attitude on the first mountain stage. He may well test his rivals but it will be more about seeing who are the real threats than just being out to best Lance.

Thinking Conti is just going to ride off into the sunset is just wishful thinking. But that is just me speculating and I may well be full of it also

 

[byu123]

watch the race from about 60k out. LA was constantly right up near the front, keeping out of trouble and being in the right place.. AC wasnt.. simple.. But no luck about it, thats experience..

+1 Amen to this. To many Lance haters/lovers reading too much into this.
Armstrong's gain today can chalked up to 15+ years of experience racing bikes. He was constantly pushing to stay up front. There was no Armstrong vs. Contador infighting going on in Astana today. If Armstrong, Popo, and Zubeldia feel back it would have accomplished nothing at all other than ****ing away an opportunity for the team to take yellow after the TTT. Cadel had the whole of Lotto pulling to close the gap and couldn't do it. Armstrong, Popo, and Zubeldia were just more astute riders today thats all. All of the other GC contenders where asleep during their supposed "rest day on the bike" before the TTT. Armstrong . . . may not . . . be the strongest GC contender this year but he showed today he is still a very smart bike racer. Being smart got him 41 seconds over all other GC guys bar Kirchen and Rogers.

 

[Zen Master]

AC would be pretty dumb if he adopted an "i'll show Armstrong" attitude on the first mountain stage. He may well test his rivals but it will be more about seeing who are the real threats than just being out to best Lance.

The point is that Armstrong just can't keep " testing rivals " pace on friday

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Well to be fair, mainly your speculative comments.

If you watch the replay you will see that the Astana guys didn't starting taking pulls till about the 11Km mark from memory.

AC would be pretty dumb if he adopted an "i'll show Armstrong" attitude on the first mountain stage. He may well test his rivals but it will be more about seeing who are the real threats than just being out to best Lance.

Thinking Conti is just going to ride off into the sunset is just wishful thinking. But that is just me speculating and I may well be full of it also

LA is a lot meaner than you think. If he was really a team player he would have used his experience (plus the inside knowledge gleaned from Hincapie) to get Contador up front at the right time too.

I am not saying AC is that smart. What he is though, is the best pure climber in the peloton by some margin, and he will now be desperate to gain enough time in an emphatic manner to be Astana's clear GC leader.

 

[Bagster]

+1

IMHO Alberto would probably eat him alive on friday

No...he probably won't, more wishful thinking, in fact he probably won't even attack that hard on Friday because there is no point in doing so. He doesn't want to be in yellow this early in the tour and has said as much.

 

[Bagster]

+1 Amen to this. To many Lance haters/lovers reading too much into this.
Armstrong's gain today can chalked up to 15+ years of experience racing bikes. He was constantly pushing to stay up front. There was no Armstrong vs. Contador infighting going on in Astana today. If Armstrong, Popo, and Zubeldia feel back it would have accomplished nothing at all other than ****ing away an opportunity for the team to take yellow after the TTT. Cadel had the whole of Lotto pulling to close the gap and couldn't do it. Armstrong, Popo, and Zubeldia were just more astute riders today thats all. All of the other GC contenders where asleep during their supposed "rest day on the bike" before the TTT. Armstrong . . . may not . . . be the strongest GC contender this year but he showed today he is still a very smart bike racer. Being smart got him 41 seconds over all other GC guys bar Kirchen and Rogers.

Couldn't agree more. At the end of the day Contador lost nothing to his main GC rivals except LA and the strong TT riders aka Kloden and Leips who were back with him didn't have to smash themselves chasing down a breakaway for no real gain and saved energy for the TT today. In fact it would have been worse than that because they would have just towed the other GC contenders along with them.

 

[Bagster]

The point is that Armstrong just can't keep " testing rivals " pace on friday

Well, the real point is that you have no way of knowing that and nor does anyone else until Friday. The Lance haters will be hoping your right and the Lance lover will be hoping you are blowing smoke.

Time will tell.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Couldn't agree more. At the end of the day Contador lost nothing to his main GC rivals except LA and the strong TT riders aka Kloden and Leips who were back with him didn't have to smash themselves chasing down a breakaway for no real gain and saved energy for the TT today. In fact it would have been worse than that because they would have just towed the other GC contenders along with them.

Exactly how all 'objective' cycling 'experts' I have heard analyzed yesterday's events! You have to remember though, in hateboy world you are required to always ignore the obvious and instead put the most devious and negative spin possible on absolutely anything that LA says or does.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Exactly how all 'objective' cycling 'experts' I have heard analyzed yesterday's events! You have to remember though, in hateboy world you are required to always ignore the obvious and instead put the most devious and negative spin possible on absolutely anything that LA says or does.

The regrattable thing about "hateboy world" is that there seems to be a direct correlation between actual long term experience as a cyclist or as a fan of cycling and frustration at the antics of LA.

There is also a clear link between short term, temporary and uninformed fans and a naive and blind obsession with hero worshipping the man.

 

[Zen Master]

No...he probably won't, more wishful thinking, in fact he probably won't even attack that hard on Friday because there is no point in doing so. He doesn't want to be in yellow this early in the tour and has said as much.

Well I agree with you completely but Alberto must show some strength and IMHO that " not so hard " attack would be to much for Lance.
Prediction for stage No 7
First group: Bertie, Sastre, Schleckete, Evans, Menchov and a couple of others
Second group ( + 30 sec ): Lance, Levi and rest of the bunch