Lance now Astana team leader...

[klodifan]

Armstrong is denying the rift on Twitter ("At dinner with the team. Despite what some might think, morale is sky high. ") That bodes well for the theory that there is a rift. If making people believe there is a rift is the intent, why deny it on Twitter?

No doubt his morale is sky high, and being the egomaniac that he is, that's all that matters.

 

[franciep10]

Oh god I need to hear lance today like I need a vasectomy, and I definitely don't need that. By the way to any guy that has done that, can you still come to fruition. But yeah I am so annoyed about hearing about how astute he was in staying at the front of the pack, god I wanted to go deaf every-time I watch versus.

 

[euphrades]

First, Armstrong is a type A personality just like Hinault and Merckx. In 1986 when he said he was going to help Lemond win he wanted everyone to know he was a contendor. Merckx I know would have expected the same after winning the Tour 5 times. So why should you guys expect it to be any different from Lance a 7 time winner. A 7 time winner who appears to have good form should never be counted out as a possible winner.

Second, Contador is ****ed because he knows he caused the gap per the info we got from the rider riding behind him. I think if it was intentional that he would have said Contador did it on purpose. Contador made a huge mistake. I

Third, I am starting to think Contador is a bit too whiny for me. Maybe its the translations in the press because he is Spanish. He whined that LL was too close to him in the overall standings in the Vuelta hinting LL didn't really work for him. He has not dominated a GT yet to be given the clout that everyone wants to give him....maybe this year at the Tour......

2007 TDF 1 stage win -------and overall by 23 seconds
2008 Giro 1 stage win -------and overall by 1 minute 57 seconds
2008 Vuelta 2 Stage wins ---and overall by 46 seconds

 

[auscyclefan94]

is it me or did any body else also get the impression that A Zubeldia was taking very, very short turns at the front of the break today. almost like he was only pretending.

After a few kilometres of the split happening lance had to call Zubeldia and Popo to work. You'd think Bruyneel would of called the move over the radio instead of lance telling HZ and YP by signals to chase. Zubeldia is Spanish so your point nm could be true and i thought lance was taking more turns than ZUbeldia.

 

[euphrades]

is it me or did any body else also get the impression that A Zubeldia was taking very, very short turns at the front of the break today. almost like he was only pretending.

I got the impression that all three Astana boys seemed to be letting others do the most work. Popo seemed to be going easier than the HTC folks. Which would be the right thing to do with the TTT tomorrow. Yes Lance did even less......thats a premptive SHHHHH!!!!

 

[Escarabajo]

...To all the ones that bash on Armstrong, just let it be, half of you would not be even watching the race if it wasnt for him and what hes done for cycling in general.

This is the most ridiculous statement have read in this Forum so far. It is actually all the way around. Just look at how many new members we have with the Tour de France just because Lance is in it. It is actually clogging the forum with "silly threads".

If you want to talk some more about cycling I'll see you at the Vuelta later this year. Will you be in this forum by then? Lance won't be, so that's why I am asking.

 

[Publicus]

First, Armstrong is a type A personality just like Hinault and Merckx. In 1986 when he said he was going to help Lemond win he wanted everyone to know he was a contendor. Merckx I know would have expected the same after winning the Tour 5 times. So why should you guys expect it to be any different from Lance a 7 time winner. A 7 time winner who appears to have good form should never be counted out as a possible winner.

Second, Contador is ****ed because he knows he caused the gap per the info we got from the rider riding behind him. I think if it was intentional that he would have said Contador did it on purpose. Contador made a huge mistake. I

Third, I am starting to think Contador is a bit too whiny for me. Maybe its the translations in the press because he is Spanish. He whined that LL was too close to him in the overall standings in the Vuelta hinting LL didn't really work for him. He has not dominated a GT yet to be given the clout that everyone wants to give him....maybe this year at the Tour......

2007 TDF 1 stage win -------and overall by 23 seconds
2008 Giro 1 stage win -------and overall by 1 minute 57 seconds
2008 Vuelta 2 Stage wins ---and overall by 46 seconds

1. So is Contador. The problem is one of the type A personality has only won the Nevada City Crit in the last 4 years, the other has won the Tour, The Giro and the Vuelta. But to your point, I think Lance has every right to go out and be competitive. He caught the break today and picked up some time which is good.

2. Assume what this guy said is true, I'm not sure what it supposed to mean. Contador got gapped. It happens. The fact that the other GC contenders were similarly situated and didn't mount a counter attack tells me that they aren't particularly worried about Lance as a GC threat.

3. He won. All 3.

Here's my question: as a leader, did Lance make a point of telling the team to be eyes up at the turn? That is part of leadership in my book. Obviously we don't know the answer and I am not going to speculate, but his comments today suggest he was looking out for number 1 and that's about it.

 

[jaylew]

This "much ado about nothing"

Lance was in the right place at the right time. The lack of reaction from the rest of the riders said let LA get a few seconds in the long run it should not matter.

In my opinion Astana didn't send anyone to bridge the gap simply because the time gains were not as important as the TTT tomorrow. Let Colombia drain themselves, let Saxo chase to get Andy and Frank back up there. At the end of the day for Astana there is little change.

Tend to agree with you. Astana's sports director even suggested they would have done things differently if A Schleck would have been there in the break with Lance.

 

[velomuse]

lance is team leader?

With all the discussion about who is the most fit or who will be best in the mountains or if the wind was X mph or Y mph (kph for the euros) It still doesn't take away the fact that Lance attacked his own leader! Dimsome or someone accused the statement about Hincapie as some conspiracy. Columbia was going to gun it for Cavendish no matter what, and why wouldn't ex-team mates of so many years give a heads up? No conspiracy, just what anyone would do. By the way, Hincapie initiated the charge. It was for Cavendish not for Lance. One thing is certain, you don't leave your captain and you sure as heck don't attack him in a break. As for the experience issue, this is not Contradors first race and if it was told to him that he needed to move up fine, but Lance went, knowing exactly what he was doing. Luck and timing had nothing to do with it.
No matter, if the captain is in difficulty or has a mechanical, or whatever, you don't leave him. Period !!! I suspect that all of you have ridden in a peloton, and you know who is where and when some drops the hammer, you know who is left in the wind. Armstrong knew exactly what he was doing and so did JB.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Here's my question: as a leader, did Lance make a point of telling the team to be eyes up at the turn? That is part of leadership in my book. Obviously we don't know the answer and I am not going to speculate, but his comments today suggest he was looking out for number 1 and that's about it.

I just spotted this on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgCQS7fBMZ0

Two points on this:
1. LA is on the inside of the turn and as he see's it sprints to get ahead and in to a better position.
2. It takes a short while for the split to take place but as soon as there is a significant gap you can clearly see an Astana rider in working with Columbia-HTC.

 

[Delicato]

I don't believe in the whole "Oh, this is our great tactics to fool all the GT contenders and have more than one card to play" crap. Since when did JB become a brilliant tactician?

I wonder what a great shame it would be for our sport if LA is in yellow today...Let's hope that Spartacus' team and especially Schleck brothers will be OK and won't slow down their team, remember, they are not great Tters, especially Frank.

Cervelo can create a surprise today, wonder why noone rate them as a favourites.

 

[frizzlefry]

I don't believe in the whole "Oh, this is our great tactics to fool all the GT contenders and have more than one card to play" crap. Since when did JB become a brilliant tactician?
.

It wasnt LA/Astana tactics that created the break. It was Columbia's. The difference is that LA was paying attention and AC was napping on the job.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I just spotted this on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgCQS7fBMZ0

Two points on this:
1. LA is on the inside of the turn and as he see's it sprints to get ahead and in to a better position.
2. It takes a short while for the split to take place but as soon as there is a significant gap you can clearly see an Astana rider in working with Columbia-HTC.

I see your point Dr Maserati, why would lance start to ride on the front with his team mates if his main leader was in the peleton? T-Mobile (nee Telekom) were criticised for riding on the front chasing down Vino when he attacked. Lance is doing the same except is riding away from AC. Has Bruyneel said anything about the situation yesterday?

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I guess he really duped himself. Went so far as to lose time to make it more realistic. Btw, it's 2009, not 2001.

I'm quite aware of the year thank you!
If you truly were a professional I think you would have a better understanding that trying to win the TDF at age 37 is going to take some creative thinking and riding for Lance to win.

I'm looking forward to an exciting TDF this year, probably one of the best for many years. I can't wait to see the battle on the slopes. I think it will really sort out the pretenders.

 

[Publicus]

With all the discussion about who is the most fit or who will be best in the mountains or if the wind was X mph or Y mph (kph for the euros) It still doesn't take away the fact that Lance attacked his own leader! Dimsome or someone accused the statement about Hincapie as some conspiracy. Columbia was going to gun it for Cavendish no matter what, and why wouldn't ex-team mates of so many years give a heads up? No conspiracy, just what anyone would do. By the way, Hincapie initiated the charge. It was for Cavendish not for Lance. One thing is certain, you don't leave your captain and you sure as heck don't attack him in a break. As for the experience issue, this is not Contradors first race and if it was told to him that he needed to move up fine, but Lance went, knowing exactly what he was doing. Luck and timing had nothing to do with it.
No matter, if the captain is in difficulty or has a mechanical, or whatever, you don't leave him. Period !!! I suspect that all of you have ridden in a peloton, and you know who is where and when some drops the hammer, you know who is left in the wind. Armstrong knew exactly what he was doing and so did JB.

No proof he attacked. There was some suggestion that Hincapie tipped him off to the move, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I see your point Dr Maserati, why would lance start to ride on the front with his team mates if his main leader was in the peleton? T-Mobile (nee Telekom) were criticised for riding on the front chasing down Vino when he attacked. Lance is doing the same except is riding away from AC. Has Bruyneel said anything about the situation yesterday?

Ha- not quite my point. I will let the pictures speak for themselves!
Quite soon after only Columbia-HTC were riding and it was only after a couple of their riders go shelled did the others start to chip in.

 

[Publicus]

I see your point Dr Maserati, why would lance start to ride on the front with his team mates if his main leader was in the peleton? T-Mobile (nee Telekom) were criticised for riding on the front chasing down Vino when he attacked. Lance is doing the same except is riding away from AC. Has Bruyneel said anything about the situation yesterday?

Hell it looked like Rast and one other Astana rider had jerseys FULL of water. And Lance hit that corner HARD (the rest of the peleton looks like it wasn't racing). And the break didn't immediately open up as the French rider seem to suggest.

 

[Seth Bullock]

Armstrong is denying the rift on Twitter ("At dinner with the team. Despite what some might think, morale is sky high. ") That bodes well for the theory that there is a rift. If making people believe there is a rift is the intent, why deny it on Twitter?

Don't know. Perhaps he's employing the classic reverse, switch, doubleback, backtrack tactic to confuse the issue. Let me just ring Lance on the 1800 LANCE number and find out.

LA: Lance speaking.
SB: Gidday Lance, it's Seth.
LA: Seth! How're they hanging?
SB: Low Lance, real low. So, working hard Lance?
LA: Harder then a one legged man in an ar$e kicking competition Seth.
SB: Ho, ho, ho, you crack me up Lance, where do you get your material?
LA: Me old pal Ben Stiller.
SB: Cool. So Lance, is there a rift in the team?
LA: Nope.
SB: So by no, you mean yes, yes?
LA: ...... Nope.
SB: Are you using the reverse, switch, doubleback, backtrack f@#k with my mind tactic Lance?
LA: ...... I don't think so.....
SB: So there is a rift in the team?
LA: Nope.
SB: I'm confused.
LA: Same here.
SB: Oh well, ride hard Lance and tell Alberto I said hello okay? Au revoir.
LA: No worries Seth. Adios.

So there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth. "No" for the team rift theory..... and therefore perhaps team tactics and experience were the reasons for Lance making the break and Alberto missing it. I'll also backtrack and say luck (right place at the right time) had something to do with it - then again luck = experience too.....

 

[Returnofthewolf]

Some facts:

Lordstrong did not "attack".

Contador did not "let" the gap open up.

The Shyte was Hitting The Fan, crosswind annihilation at the end of a long hot day, NOT fun fyi.

If you think the GC contenders were "content" in giving Lordstrong 40 seconds, well...uhhhhh.. no.

If there was any premeditation whatsoever to Columbias move, of course Hincapie would give Lordantichriststrong a heads-up. Hincapie has BFFBMM status.

Cadel will lose a farking metric assload of time in the TTT.

TTT's are cool, but bullshyte in a grand tour.

Cavendish MAY be an arrogant ***, I cant be sure.

I'd like to get tantric with some podium girls.

Im getting another glass of wine.

ALL FACTS.

An interesting aside for the guys that say you "ALWAYS" go 100% in a TT. I remember reading Ferrari claiming that: within the context of going for the overall in a 3 week tour, it may be worth it to back it down to JUST less than MAXIMUM in the TT's.

Cheers.

 

[Bagster]

Some facts:

Lordstrong did not "attack".

Contador did not "let" the gap open up.

The Shyte was Hitting The Fan, crosswind annihilation at the end of a long hot day, NOT fun fyi.

If you think the GC contenders were "content" in giving Lordstrong 40 seconds, well...uhhhhh.. no.

If there was any premeditation whatsoever to Columbias move, of course Hincapie would give Lordantichriststrong a heads-up. Hincapie has BFFBMM status.

Cadel will lose a farking metric assload of time in the TTT.

TTT's are cool, but bullshyte in a grand tour.

Cavendish MAY be an arrogant ***, I cant be sure.

I'd like to get tantric with some podium girls.

Im getting another glass of wine.

ALL FACTS.

An interesting aside for the guys that say you "ALWAYS" go 100% in a TT. I remember reading Ferrari claiming that: within the context of going for the overall in a 3 week tour, it may be worth it to back it down to JUST less than MAXIMUM in the TT's.

Cheers.

Wow I feel so enlightened now

 

[Coach Hawk]

Greetings all!

A few thoughts on this thread...

What the ITT showed: Not a lot. Having time splits to push/inspire you to dig deeper does make a difference, even to athletes like Lance. It was a technical course--even though LA (and everyone else) was riding "all out", that does not mean that they are taking every possible risk in every corner. I also believe that this particular course would have been very hard to judge pacing, and an error in that could cost time but is not necessarily indicative of "fitness".

What today (stage 3) showed: LA was paying attention. You don't win 7 TdFs just by riding fast--you have to be smart. Consipiracy theories aside, it seem that the tactical issues favor LA over AC. And yep, tactics even affect mountain stages. It's not just the fastest pair of legs that wins it (although they sure help!) LA says that he's as fit as 2003, and I'm certainly not in a position to question that. Whether or not that would be enough to top AC remains a question, but with the tactical acumen in LAs favor this sure could be entertaining.

As for "no one" chasing because they don't think LA is a threat--most of the GC teams (Saxo, Rabo, Silence, Garmin, etc.) went to the front and chased at one point or another.

As a side note, I'm currently re-watching it, and it is definitely 2 Astana guys who "let" the gap open up. I'm not at all saying that it was intentional, but certianly interesting. They looked more confused than anything, ala "where the rest of my team?" and "should I be working to close the gap?"

 

[akcoach]

Armstrong = Hypocrite

Everyone knows that in at least 6 of the 7 years (maybe not in '99), the entire US Postal and Disco teams were built around one man, and one man only. No "three-pronged attack" that T-Mobile or ONCE tried to throw at him, everything was built around Lance, and no personal aspirations were allowed. If a team member had done something like what Lance pulled today, Lance would have taken him out to the woodshed and made him sorry he'd been born. No dissension was brooked on any account. They actually said that having one designated team leader was better than having multiple leaders, as it made everyone united. Now, to hear Lance and Bruyneel spout about how it's actually better to have more than one leader, that it makes sense, just makes me laugh. Everything Lance does is self-serving, and his recent actions on and off the bike shows that. "I'm just here to have fun". Can you imagine if one of his teammates had said that back on Postal or Disco? But it's ok for him to say it now because he's Lance. THis whole thing is making Bruyneel look like a completetely ineffectual bumbler in his handling of the situation. Of course the man has directed two riders to 8 Tour wins, plus a few Giros and a Vuelta, which is why it's so bizarre seeing him sound like such a fence-straddler now.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Everyone knows that in at least 6 of the 7 years (maybe not in '99), the entire US Postal and Disco teams were built around one man, and one man only. No "three-pronged attack" that T-Mobile or ONCE tried to throw at him, everything was built around Lance, and no personal aspirations were allowed. If a team member had done something like what Lance pulled today, Lance would have taken him out to the woodshed and made him sorry he'd been born. No dissension was brooked on any account. They actually said that having one designated team leader was better than having multiple leaders, as it made everyone united. Now, to hear Lance and Bruyneel spout about how it's actually better to have more than one leader, that it makes sense, just makes me laugh. Everything Lance does is self-serving, and his recent actions on and off the bike shows that. "I'm just here to have fun". Can you imagine if one of his teammates had said that back on Postal or Disco? But it's ok for him to say it now because he's Lance. THis whole thing is making Bruyneel look like a completetely ineffectual bumbler in his handling of the situation. Of course the man has directed two riders to 8 Tour wins, plus a few Giros and a Vuelta, which is why it's so bizarre seeing him sound like such a fence-straddler now.

The guys on Postal/Discovery were hired specifically to work for Lance. That was clearly their job. No one told Lance it was his job to be a domestique. that would be like telling a brain surgeon to wash the floors.

Having said that, if Contador proves he's a lot stronger than Lance on Friday, and I believe he will, I think you will see in Lance fall into the role of super-domestique, as he has said all along he will.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Clearing up the facts

Some facts:

Lordstrong did not "attack".

Contador did not "let" the gap open up.

The Shyte was Hitting The Fan, crosswind annihilation at the end of a long hot day, NOT fun fyi.

If you think the GC contenders were "content" in giving Lordstrong 40 seconds, well...uhhhhh.. no.

If there was any premeditation whatsoever to Columbias move, of course Hincapie would give Lordantichriststrong a heads-up. Hincapie has BFFBMM status.

Cadel will lose a farking metric assload of time in the TTT.

TTT's are cool, but bullshyte in a grand tour.

Cavendish MAY be an arrogant ***, I cant be sure.

I'd like to get tantric with some podium girls.

Im getting another glass of wine.

ALL FACTS.

An interesting aside for the guys that say you "ALWAYS" go 100% in a TT. I remember reading Ferrari claiming that: within the context of going for the overall in a 3 week tour, it may be worth it to back it down to JUST less than MAXIMUM in the TT's.

Cheers.

Lance Armstrong didn't attack but he did ride on the front to get a gap on AC. He definetly wasn't going for a stage. Why would someone ride on the front if their main leader is losing sometime to some possible GC contenders? Lance's main tatic was to gain time on AC. I definetly think Hincapie gave lance the heads up on the pull away. They were definetly talking about it. Columbia's move was definetly pre meditated but Lance seems to think different! I'm not 100% sure if AC let the gap go but Contador definetly did get caught out.

 

[Bagster]

The guys on Postal/Discovery were hired specifically to work for Lance. That was clearly their job. No one told Lance it was his job to be a domestique. that would be like telling a brain surgeon to wash the floors.

Having said that, if Contador proves he's a lot stronger than Lance on Friday, and I believe he will, I think you will see in Lance fall into the role of super-domestique, as he has said all along he will.

Agreed on your first point, amazes me that some people think it is somehow wrong to expect the guys that are paid to work for you to do just that.

Don't think you will see AC a lot stronger than Lance on Friday, but if he is then I think you will see Lance move into the SD role, much as he will hate it. I think what you will see is Andy Schleck putting the hurt on everyone once Cancellara and Voigt have deadened the legs of most of the pretenders.