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Lance's crash yesterday

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Polish

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SoNiK4 said:
Say what you want but Lance hit down yesterday pretty damn hard, good on him for finishing the stage. Did he possibly clip the curb as well?
]

Lance's gutsy ride after his multiple crashes yesterday was just as impressive as his gutsy chase on cobbles. Maybe more so?

Anyway, even Alberto is now a Certified FanBoy. Welcome Aboard AC!

"I've watched the stage on TV last night and I've thought about the career he accomplished. I still admire him. I admire him maybe even more now than before."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-he-admires-armstrong-more-than-before
 
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Polish said:
Lance's gutsy ride after his multiple crashes yesterday was just as impressive as his gutsy chase on cobbles. Maybe more so?

Anyway, even Alberto is now a Certified FanBoy. Welcome Aboard AC!

"I've watched the stage on TV last night and I've thought about the career he accomplished. I still admire him. I admire him maybe even more now than before."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-he-admires-armstrong-more-than-before

LOL, I don't know whether it's the translation, but he makes it sound like: yeah, I finished, then went to the hotel, got a massage, turned on the TV, and just caught Lance pedaling to the finish line.

Also, the 'admire him maybe even more now than before' line is not so impressive if the baseline is low to start with (which it probably is).

Seems like a case of damning with faint praise. But maybe it's just the translation or my interpretation.
 
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pedaling squares said:
... and soft pedaling... and a pretty easy route... and the TTT...

Yeah his teammates looked like crap, riding so slowly to keep from dropping him that they barely kept their bikes upright. Especially that old Horner guy, he sucked! :rolleyes:
No argument here. From the start I was pretty incredulous about Lance recruiting his old buddies for the RadioShack juggernaut, instead of hunting for young talent. As if he was gutting Astana--it was more like picking up dead wood, but I'm sure he never saw it that way.

Well, I did hear that he tried to pick up Andy Schleck, but without brother Frank. The old divide-and-conquer. The whole enterprise sounded delusional.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Hansen crashed while the peloton was maintaining a normal pace, not racing full gas as they were when Armstrong crashed. Huge difference. The difference is whether and how much you need to go into the red to catch up. It's one thing to catch up when they're tooling along at 50-75% of max effort, it's quite another when they're at 90%.

I agree with you that Armstrong was always going to be in trouble on the Ramaz because he was already bouncing off the rev-limiter from chasing back on, however I think you misunderstood my point. I said:

There are plenty of examples in this race and previous versions of guys getting well busted up in crashes and finishing stages with determination.

and

I was frankly astonished to see Armstrong pack it in and ride to Avoriaz (not Ramaz) like it was a cafe run. It wasn't his "a$$" that got busted in that crash - it was his head.

This was in response to the suggestion that Armstrong's time loss was attributable to injuries sustained in multiple crashes. The case of Hansen was used to demonstrate the concept of finishing with determination, regardless of significant injury. Perhaps Armstrong was injured and it did limit his ability to finish strongly, but it sure looked like he'd packed it in and was cruising to me.
 
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How to Glue a Sew Up to the Rim - 101

rata de sentina said:
As for blaming the mechanic as someone (not LA) has suggested, that is pretty pathetic. There are all sorts of forces during a crash which could account for the tire rolling which was the reason he had to swap to another bike not for the crash.

I didn't just suggest it. I flat out said that was the reason Lance crashed.

The mechanic didn't glue the tire on properly, end of story.

A properly glued tire will never roll off, period.

If tires rolled off every time somebody clipped their pedal, your local weekend crit would be a blood bath.

Some people glue their tires on better than others. But by the time you get the TdF, you darned well better know how to glue a tire on. Lance's mechanic didn't, and (assuming that Lance's story is accurate) that is why Lance crashed.

I'm no Lance fan, but I think he has the bike handling skills to handle a sideways jump of a few inches from a clipped pedal. But almost nobody can handle it when their tire rolls. Just ask Beloki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr89ku-K2WU&NR=1

Here's a tip -- if you aren't using an old toothbrush to apply the glue, you aren't doing it right. But who knows, maybe you ride clinchers.
 

flicker

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Moose McKnuckles said:
How many of those other riders who finished behind him have an ENTIRE team dedicated to supporting them and their GC hopes? That's right, NONE.

Moose answer me this. HAVE YOU EVER RACED. HAVE YOU EVER RACED Up MOUNTAINS LIKE THE TOUR AT TOUR SPEEDS? hAVE YOU EVER RACED THE COBBLES AT 31mph AND FLATTED. Just let me hear your palmares. Are you a top euro pro?
 
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flicker said:
Moose answer me this. HAVE YOU EVER RACED. HAVE YOU EVER RACED Up MOUNTAINS LIKE THE TOUR AT TOUR SPEEDS? hAVE YOU EVER RACED THE COBBLES AT 31mph AND FLATTED. Just let me hear your palmares. Are you a top euro pro?
Are you chanelling this ricara or something? If so, you need to puff your chest out a bit more and gesticulate with your toothbrush in a threatening manner.
 
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flicker said:
Moose answer me this. HAVE YOU EVER RACED. HAVE YOU EVER RACED Up MOUNTAINS LIKE THE TOUR AT TOUR SPEEDS? hAVE YOU EVER RACED THE COBBLES AT 31mph AND FLATTED. Just let me hear your palmares. Are you a top euro pro?

Oops, you missed a couple there! :D
 
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anyone got a pic or vid of the mechanic holding LA's bike with the rolled tub hanging off it. I remember watching it live and when the mechanic came with the spare LA was holding his crashed bike and i did not see the tub hanging of the front wheel, but maybe i missed it...
 
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Benotti69 said:
anyone got a pic or vid of the mechanic holding LA's bike with the rolled tub hanging off it. I remember watching it live and when the mechanic came with the spare LA was holding his crashed bike and i did not see the tub hanging of the front wheel, but maybe i missed it...

I would assume that it would have been the rear wheel. That's what usually happens when you clip a pedal -- it's the rear wheel that hops. Then if the tire isn't glued properly, it can roll off.

But you're right, I didn't see any tire hanging off. I don't know why Lance would have said it did if it hadn't. But then I started thinking about what Horner said in one of the interviews. He said that they were going up the climb so hard that he was sitting at the back and his power meter said 450 watts.

The more I think about that number, the harder it is to believe. That means the guys at the front were doing about 20% more or 540 watts. Now that is a lot of power. I find it hard to believe that Team Sky was sitting on the front putting out 540 watts all the way up that climb.

And then there is Lance's chase group. There were two or three guys towing him up. They weren't rotating, the guy at the front just took one huge pull. So what was he doing to catch a group that was doing 540 watts? 600 watts? 700 watts? Doesn't make sense to me.
 
ricara said:
I would assume that it would have been the rear wheel. That's what usually happens when you clip a pedal -- it's the rear wheel that hops. Then if the tire isn't glued properly, it can roll off.

But you're right, I didn't see any tire hanging off. I don't know why Lance would have said it did if it hadn't. But then I started thinking about what Horner said in one of the interviews. He said that they were going up the climb so hard that he was sitting at the back and his power meter said 450 watts.

The more I think about that number, the harder it is to believe. That means the guys at the front were doing about 20% more or 540 watts. Now that is a lot of power. I find it hard to believe that Team Sky was sitting on the front putting out 540 watts all the way up that climb.

And then there is Lance's chase group. There were two or three guys towing him up. They weren't rotating, the guy at the front just took one huge pull. So what was he doing to catch a group that was doing 540 watts? 600 watts? 700 watts? Doesn't make sense to me.

It's all spin, lies and excuses. Sky weren't even killing it on the front, they were riding tempo. They were probably only putting out around 400-450 watts themselves, max. Saxo were the ones that killed it when they took over, after LA had rejoined.

But "I lost because of a crash" is better at keeping the myth alive than "I couldn't keep up".

Notice how the spin has shifted to this from the initial "bonk" reports, after a few people made "a lot to learn" comments.
 
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Elagabalus said:
Never? Really? Hogwash

You've probably seen the overhead video shot of Beloki crashing that I linked above. Now it was hot that day, and using brakes on the descent probably heated his rims even more. And they were still using aluminum rims for most of the stages back then, so the heat went straight to the glue.

But there are 200 guys in the Tour, that's 400 wheels. They all have hot rims and hot glue. So why do you think Beloki rolled his tire that day? What do you think was different about his wheel that he couldn't go around a corner without rolling his tire when 400 other wheels did?

Me? I'd say that it wasn't glued properly.
 
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ricara said:
You've probably seen the overhead video shot of Beloki crashing that I linked above. Now it was hot that day, and using brakes on the descent probably heated his rims even more. And they were still using aluminum rims for most of the stages back then, so the heat went straight to the glue.

But there are 200 guys in the Tour, that's 400 wheels. They all have hot rims and hot glue. So why do you think Beloki rolled his tire that day? What do you think was different about his wheel that he couldn't go around a corner without rolling his tire when 400 other wheels did?

Me? I'd say that it wasn't glued properly.

i watched that video and his back wheel skips out, which appears to cause him to crash but i cant see any tubular seperating from the wheel???? even when you see his bike lying on the ground i cant see it...
 
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I thought Horner said he was doing 400 Watts AFTER Armstrong told him not to wait anymore - when he was trying to make time back on the Contador group - and that he (Horner) couldn't maintain it and had to back off.
 
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ricara said:
I would assume that it would have been the rear wheel. That's what usually happens when you clip a pedal -- it's the rear wheel that hops. Then if the tire isn't glued properly, it can roll off.

But you're right, I didn't see any tire hanging off. I don't know why Lance would have said it did if it hadn't. But then I started thinking about what Horner said in one of the interviews. He said that they were going up the climb so hard that he was sitting at the back and his power meter said 450 watts.

The more I think about that number, the harder it is to believe. That means the guys at the front were doing about 20% more or 540 watts. Now that is a lot of power. I find it hard to believe that Team Sky was sitting on the front putting out 540 watts all the way up that climb.

And then there is Lance's chase group. There were two or three guys towing him up. They weren't rotating, the guy at the front just took one huge pull. So what was he doing to catch a group that was doing 540 watts? 600 watts? 700 watts? Doesn't make sense to me.

Just going from memory here... I don't think Horner had/has an SRM n his bike. He was probably guessing at his power output (I could be wrong).

The point he was making is that they were au bloc.
 
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Benotti69 said:
i watched that video and his back wheel skips out, which appears to cause him to crash but i cant see any tubular seperating from the wheel???? even when you see his bike lying on the ground i cant see it...

Yeah, I can't argue with that -- it's kind of like Armstrong's disappearing "rolled tire". The YouTube vid of Beloki's crash is pretty fuzzy, but I'm 98% certain that everyone said he rolled his tire. But maybe I'm wrong.
 
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This Just In!

The reason that Evans choked on today's 9th stage was because he broke his elbow in that first pile-up at 5 k or so into the race. I'd say that finishing that stage in Yellow and then continuing on to finish the next stage (although well down) shows what a gutsy guy he is.

That's more like what I would have expected of Lance on stage 8.
 
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riobonito92 said:
I thought Horner said he was doing 400 Watts AFTER Armstrong told him not to wait anymore - when he was trying to make time back on the Contador group - and that he (Horner) couldn't maintain it and had to back off.

No, I rechecked the interview:

http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-8-extra/

and Horner said that they sent their flat riders back to tow Lance up to the climb and that Horner was sitting on the back waiting for him, putting out "350 to 400 watts".

That's a bit less than I posted earlier, so my apologies for the bad memory.