• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Lance's Spin Machine Drops into the Big Chainring

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Public Opinion

That message of the day on espn was not targeted at anyone following even the basic facts of the unfolding story. It was about influencing the espn consumer who reads their cycling content. (Lots of people)

Trying to drill down into the message is a fools errand. I think the point is to sow seeds of (uninformed) doubt about USADA.

Espn's complicity is shameless, but that's par for the MSM course.

IMHO, Race Radio should keep his inside info out of the forum until it's published elsewhere. By then, it's old news. I know it's fun and kind of exciting, but in this case, allegations that some riders have already sung could be useful to the Pharmstrong campaign. Nothing personal against Race Radio. The more Team Pharmstrong has to struggle without information, the better. Well, maybe Race Radio would consider publishing false information?
 
Jan 4, 2010
115
0
0
Visit site
BikeCentric said:
You forget that if LA "calls for all the test results as proof of his claims" at minimum there are the 6 positive EPO tests from 1999. If more of his old samples are tested I think it's likely there would be even more positives. While these re-tests have been dismissed by the UCI as outside their sanctioning procedure I doubt they'd be dismissed so readily by a Grand Jury. Especially with Ashenden, creator of the EPO test, on record saying the tests are legit.

And he will counter with this:

An article published in the prestigious medical journal, Blood (June 15, 2006) shows that after competing in any athletic event, any athlete could have a false positive urine test for EPO.
Researchers at Catholic University of Leuven in Belgium showed that “this widely used test can occasionally lead to the false-positive detection of EPO in postexercise, protein-rich urine.” Any athlete can have a false positive test with this procedure. Most people with healthy kidneys do not spill protein in their urine, but after strenuous exercise, athletes with normal kidneys often spill protein into their urine. For example, more than 80 percent of runners spilled protein into their urines after running the Boston Marathon. The authors state that the antibodies that are used in the test can attach to any protein in the urine, not just EPO.

all this is way above my head.
 
Interesting to see the shift in public opinion.

Although the investigation is ongoing, public opinion may be starting to shift. Words such as "scandal" and "lie" and "steroids" are now the most popular phrases used to describe Armstrong, according to Zeta Interactive, a marketing firm that tracks online sentiments. In 2008, when Armstrong was the fourth-most talked about athlete, words used to describe him included "hero" and "legend" and "Nike" — a reference to one of his main sponsors.

"Anyone or anything associated with Lance Armstrong should be very worried right now," Zeta Interactive CEO Al DiGuido said. "He has faced these kinds of allegations before, but the fuel really seems to be kicking in this time."
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
Visit site
Moose McKnuckles said:
Interesting to see the shift in public opinion.

great read, moose. i think you should have quoted this
"Anyone or anything associated with Lance Armstrong should be very worried right now," Zeta Interactive CEO Al DiGuido said. "He has faced these kinds of allegations before, but the fuel really seems to be kicking in this time."
the article also explains nicely many questions i raised in a thread about texas sponsor dropping out.

frs company is a texas *****. please ignore it.
 

editedbymod

BANNED
Jul 11, 2010
112
0
0
Visit site
python said:
great read, moose. i think you should have quoted this

the article also explains nicely many questions i raised in a thread about texas sponsor dropping out.

frs company is a texas *****. please ignore it.


Armstrong has a financial stake in FRS. Hardly an independent quote!
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
That message of the day on espn was not targeted at anyone following even the basic facts of the unfolding story. It was about influencing the espn consumer who reads their cycling content. (Lots of people)

Trying to drill down into the message is a fools errand. I think the point is to sow seeds of (uninformed) doubt about USADA.

Espn's complicity is shameless, but that's par for the MSM course.

IMHO, Race Radio should keep his inside info out of the forum until it's published elsewhere. By then, it's old news. I know it's fun and kind of exciting, but in this case, allegations that some riders have already sung could be useful to the Pharmstrong campaign. Nothing personal against Race Radio. The more Team Pharmstrong has to struggle without information, the better. Well, maybe Race Radio would consider publishing false information?

Absolutely. He won't fall for the troll hook.
Pushing specific names with some claim of knowledge could compromise their testimony just because the LA team spin can overexpose it. They've been saying "that's old news from: jealous, disgruntled,etc".
 

SpartacusRox

BANNED
May 6, 2010
711
0
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
There are more than that and of course not; no one has that information. Nothing's obvious except your attempts at being oblivious. And that makes me sad, again.

I'm not trying to be 'oblivious' at all. I just get sick of guys insinuating that they have inside information on who said what, when, as HJ points out it is all sealed testimony.

Every time a perceived pro Armstrong poster suggests anything on these threads they are met with instant demands for links and evidence to back up their claims. My post was merely to point out that it works both ways. I admit that I was well aware that there were no links, so why post the speculative innuendo in the first place? I can well imagine the response if I posted saying that; "4 riders and their friends have given evidence that totally backs Armstrongs version of events and the case is going to be thrown out". I get an inkling that such a post would not be taken at face value.

Sorry if I make you sad Oldman, I really don't have a vested interest in what happens in this investigation one way or another.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
1
0
Visit site
SpartacusRox said:
I'm not trying to be 'oblivious' at all. I just get sick of guys insinuating that they have inside information on who said what, when, as HJ points out it is all sealed testimony.

Every time a perceived pro Armstrong poster suggests anything on these threads they are met with instant demands for links and evidence to back up their claims. My post was merely to point out that it works both ways. I admit that I was well aware that there were no links, so why post the speculative innuendo in the first place? I can well imagine the response if I posted saying that; "4 riders and their friends have given evidence that totally backs Armstrongs version of events and the case is going to be thrown out". I get an inkling that such a post would not be taken at face value.

Sorry if I make you sad Oldman, I really don't have a vested interest in what happens in this investigation one way or another.

Yes, I do know a bit more about it then you ever will.....but you don't read the WSJ? Other riders then Landis have confirmed team doping to Reed, do you think they are going to lie to the Fed's?
 
May 25, 2009
332
0
0
Visit site
Race Radio said:
Fat boy Herman is running scared. His golden goose is cooked. He is searching for something to spin. First it was crying about non existent leaks now he is crying because people are no longer scared of wonderboy and are telling the truth. Sucks to be toady.

Are you kidding? Herman is in Pig Heaven! Do you know how many billable hours his firm will make off this case? Especially with this rapid-response-war-room style public opinion defense strategy. He gets paid the same rate win or lose - and this case is a cash cow to him.

BTW, if the web comments on news stories are any indication people are buying his spin. Nearly every article has a comment about "The Gov should not be spending taxpayer money on this witch hunt.."
 
May 7, 2009
1,282
0
0
Visit site
oldschoolnik said:
.....

BTW, if the web comments on news stories are any indication people are buying his spin. Nearly every article has a comment about "The Gov should not be spending taxpayer money on this witch hunt.."

Yeah, but reading a sample of the comments, they all appear to be written by the same few people. Propiganda at it's finest????
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
Deagol said:
Yeah, but reading a sample of the comments, they all appear to be written by the same few people. Propiganda at it's finest????

And more importantly the press is diggin in like a tick on a fat dog. In the end I don't think Lance is the big fish Novitsky is chumming for but he is a meaty piece of flesh for the press. His ties to pre/post pubescent starlets, songbirds and "actresses" give the media jackals the gloss they need to set up a week of Entertainment Tonight. THE PRESS WANTS SOLID PROTEIN and they won't accept the feeble spin his lawyers offer up so it's Texan flesh barbeque. It's gone from rumors to CN forums to WSJ to CNN to TIME to...all big picture media and unfortunately for LA and company they spent alot of time hyping him and want their public apology. Next stop: Oprah.
 
May 25, 2009
332
0
0
Visit site
Oprah? You know what would be awesome? A Nightline episode with the split screen Lance vs. Floyd, no attorneys - just old fashion debate. LA would never agree but it would be cool.
Oldman said:
And more importantly the press is diggin in like a tick on a fat dog. In the end I don't think Lance is the big fish Novitsky is chumming for but he is a meaty piece of flesh for the press. His ties to pre/post pubescent starlets, songbirds and "actresses" give the media jackals the gloss they need to set up a week of Entertainment Tonight. THE PRESS WANTS SOLID PROTEIN and they won't accept the feeble spin his lawyers offer up so it's Texan flesh barbeque. It's gone from rumors to CN forums to WSJ to CNN to TIME to...all big picture media and unfortunately for LA and company they spent alot of time hyping him and want their public apology. Next stop: Oprah.
 

DAOTEC

BANNED
Jun 16, 2009
3,171
0
0
Visit site
Sarkozy refuses to use the TREK given by LA

For his cycle tour on Thursday, near his vacation at Cape Negro (Var), the head of state did not use the spring Trek offered by Lance Armstrong.
According to the picture agency, Nicolas Sarkozy used a much more modest Btwin, former supplier of AG2R, a gift received in 2008 ... hands of Martine Aubry.
Note that his son, Peter, was the trip with a white jersey of the Tour de France, no team entry. The president was not wearing a helmet.

http://cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=6010#ancre1
 
Jun 18, 2009
1,086
1
0
Visit site
NashbarShorts said:
This same attorney was interviewed on "Nightline". A paunchy, out-of-shape late-50's windbag of a man, he called LA, "the hardest working athlete I've ever met."

C'mon, that's good enough for me. Should be good enough for all of us. Let's end this witchhunt now and begin the healing process! :D

Quite clearly, LA was the only athlete that guy had ever met. He looked like the type of guy that think "exercise" is a term to describe the process of getting off the couch and walking to the fridge!
 
May 13, 2009
3,093
3
0
Visit site
Cobber said:
Quite clearly, LA was the only athlete that guy had ever met. He looked like the type of guy that think "exercise" is a term to describe the process of getting off the couch and walking to the fridge!

Lol, and walking back to the couch with a beer in hand constitutes a half-marathon, so re-hydration is well-deserved.
 
Jul 29, 2010
431
0
0
Visit site
oldschoolnik said:
Oprah? You know what would be awesome? A Nightline episode with the split screen Lance vs. Floyd, no attorneys - just old fashion debate. LA would never agree but it would be cool.

Nah, if the chips are down and LA has to do a "mea culpa" on national TV, it will more likely be a mushy, softball interviewer like Barbara Walters. Mark my words, this is how it will go:

BW: So Lance, why did you do it?
LA: Well..., in '99 I did it b/c I wanted to beat cancer cold. I was angry at cancer and wanted to prove it's possible to comeback and be better than before. But..

BW: But?
LA: But after '99, I intended to stop. Really, I did. But suddenly, it became bigger than me. It became about the cancer community. I became a symbol of hope. To everyone around the world, touched by this disease. I received so many letters...

BW: And?
LA: And every year I told myself I'd stop. But then, I'd go visit a children's cancer ward...and just knew I couldn't. I couldn't let those kids down! They needed me to ride.

BW: So Lance, if what you're telling me is true, in '99, you doped out of anger?
LA: Yes, that's correct.

BW: But after that, from '00 to '05....really when you think about it, you doped out of LOVE.
LA: Well, I never really thought about it like that but (eyes getting wet)

BW: But it's true Lance. You did it out of love. Didn't you?
LA: (voice cracking) Dammit Barbara. I promised myself you wouldn't make me cry...


Just getting it on the record now. I'm pretty sure we'll be hearing this in a future interview. :D
 
Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
0
Visit site
Alpe d'Huez said:
I can actually see that happening. But at the same time it would send up a howl of protest in the rest of the media.

Yeah, but after a year or two it would die down. I've said before, and I still believe, full admission is his best play. He even seemed to keep that option open with the "till the day I die" quote, since he excluded "doping" from the list of things he'd deny until his death.

The problem is, I bet he's playing a "wait and see" attitude with this option, and the longer he keeps denying, the more gratuitous a confession will appear...and the bigger the hole he'll be digging.

If he admitted to doping, the wind would certainly be taken out of the sails of the federal investigation, and at that point a continued investigation really would appear to be a "witch hunt" to a lot of people.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
NashbarShorts said:
Nah, if the chips are down and LA has to do a "mea culpa" on national TV, it will more likely be a mushy, softball interviewer like Barbara Walters. Mark my words, this is how it will go:

BW: So Lance, why did you do it?
LA: Well..., in '99 I did it b/c I wanted to beat cancer cold. I was angry at cancer and wanted to prove it's possible to comeback and be better than before. But..

BW: But?
LA: But after '99, I intended to stop. Really, I did. But suddenly, it became bigger than me. It became about the cancer community. I became a symbol of hope. To everyone around the world, touched by this disease. I received so many letters...

BW: And?
LA: And every year I told myself I'd stop. But then, I'd go visit a children's cancer ward...and just knew I couldn't. I couldn't let those kids down! They needed me to ride.

BW: So Lance, if what you're telling me is true, in '99, you doped out of anger?
LA: Yes, that's correct.

BW: But after that, from '00 to '05....really when you think about it, you doped out of LOVE.
LA: Well, I never really thought about it like that but (eyes getting wet)

BW: But it's true Lance. You did it out of love. Didn't you?
LA: (voice cracking) Dammit Barbara. I promised myself you wouldn't make me cry...


Just getting it on the record now. I'm pretty sure we'll be hearing this in a future interview. :D

Frightening how plausible that conversation sounds...I think Public Strategies needs to come knocking on your door next because their tired old "Greg is a bitter ex-champion out to sully the great name of Armstrong because he won more races" PR crap is dying on the vine. An intelligent PR person would realize that this is the time to shift focus and get ahead of the flow a bit. You my friend stand to make a lot of money if they are smart.:)
 
Apr 28, 2009
493
0
0
Visit site
NashbarShorts said:
Nah, if the chips are down and LA has to do a "mea culpa" on national TV, it will more likely be a mushy, softball interviewer like Barbara Walters. Mark my words, this is how it will go:

BW: So Lance, why did you do it?
LA: Well..., in '99 I did it b/c I wanted to beat cancer cold. I was angry at cancer and wanted to prove it's possible to comeback and be better than before. But..

BW: But?
LA: But after '99, I intended to stop. Really, I did. But suddenly, it became bigger than me. It became about the cancer community. I became a symbol of hope. To everyone around the world, touched by this disease. I received so many letters...

BW: And?
LA: And every year I told myself I'd stop. But then, I'd go visit a children's cancer ward...and just knew I couldn't. I couldn't let those kids down! They needed me to ride.

BW: So Lance, if what you're telling me is true, in '99, you doped out of anger?
LA: Yes, that's correct.

BW: But after that, from '00 to '05....really when you think about it, you doped out of LOVE.
LA: Well, I never really thought about it like that but (eyes getting wet)

BW: But it's true Lance. You did it out of love. Didn't you?
LA: (voice cracking) Dammit Barbara. I promised myself you wouldn't make me cry...


Just getting it on the record now. I'm pretty sure we'll be hearing this in a future interview. :D

Holy crap that is brilliant and scary. And yes it would work.
 
131313 said:
Yeah, but after a year or two it would die down. I've said before, and I still believe, full admission is his best play. He even seemed to keep that option open with the "till the day I die" quote, since he excluded "doping" from the list of things he'd deny until his death.

The problem is, I bet he's playing a "wait and see" attitude with this option, and the longer he keeps denying, the more gratuitous a confession will appear...and the bigger the hole he'll be digging.

If he admitted to doping, the wind would certainly be taken out of the sails of the federal investigation, and at that point a continued investigation really would appear to be a "witch hunt" to a lot of people.

not only do i agree, i think this is obviously the correct next step. i'm starting to think LA's PR people aren't exactly the best in the business since publishing blackmail emails from FL that really only demonstrated floyd's thoughtfulness and sobriety.

to be fair however, a confession at this point may have legal ramifications that are too hard to predict (LA's legal team doesn't even know what charges they are facing) and the statute on some of his yellow jerseys won't pass for quite some time. UCI/AFLD/WADA/ASO might want them back inside of 8 years.
 
NashbarShorts said:
Nah, if the chips are down and LA has to do a "mea culpa" on national TV, it will more likely be a mushy, softball interviewer like Barbara Walters. Mark my words, this is how it will go:

BW: So Lance, why did you do it?
LA: Well..., in '99 I did it b/c I wanted to beat cancer cold. I was angry at cancer and wanted to prove it's possible to comeback and be better than before. But..

BW: But?
LA: But after '99, I intended to stop. Really, I did. But suddenly, it became bigger than me. It became about the cancer community. I became a symbol of hope. To everyone around the world, touched by this disease. I received so many letters...

BW: And?
LA: And every year I told myself I'd stop. But then, I'd go visit a children's cancer ward...and just knew I couldn't. I couldn't let those kids down! They needed me to ride.

BW: So Lance, if what you're telling me is true, in '99, you doped out of anger?
LA: Yes, that's correct.

BW: But after that, from '00 to '05....really when you think about it, you doped out of LOVE.
LA: Well, I never really thought about it like that but (eyes getting wet)

BW: But it's true Lance. You did it out of love. Didn't you?
LA: (voice cracking) Dammit Barbara. I promised myself you wouldn't make me cry...


Just getting it on the record now. I'm pretty sure we'll be hearing this in a future interview. :D

Absolutely Brilliant, you should work for the White House with that ability to spin.