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Lance's victims: who he'll have to pay back

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D-Queued

D-Queued

May 27, 2010
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Looks like SCA may have at least one good reason to hold off for now:

According to this article (already posted and discussed in the Part II thread), Lance has the option to come clean and only lose the 2004 and 2005 titles.

Travis: "Of course, this is still possible and we always remain open, because while the truth hurts, ultimately, from what we have seen in these types of cases, acknowledging the truth is the best way forward."

But, we know he won't.

If he did, then he would have to admit he was lying about the witch hunt. For Lance, there is nothing that another good lie cannot solve. :rolleyes:

Dave.
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

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DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

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ChewbaccaD said:
Anyone who gets a judgment will be denied payment when Armstrong files for BK.
Click to expand...

Dredging this up for TheHog, this is a two-parter.

#1. The way this works is Wonderboy has probably already been busy structuring his wealth such that according to what can be described as assets that can be captured in a civil trial are limited. Meanwhile though, the guy can pay his legal bills off the protected money.
#2. On the documents given to the courts describing his wealth won't show much because the wealth will be protected from the courts. One example is, you can't take someone's retirement savings. When he loses, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "I can't pay you. I'm not worth that much... I'm going to declare BK because of the judgment." This is very common in big-money cases.

The parties like SCA know all this and will probably offer to do a no-liability, no-fault deal if they can resurrect the mess. While there will be some satisfaction, it probably won't be to Clinic standards.


I think we can agree without appearance money coming in, the legal fees are going to take a substantial toll unless he's got a defense fund fueled by Weisel, Tailwind/CSE principals and other guys like the one that owns Leadville and presumably 24-hour fitness.
 
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henryg

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While Lance has a dedicated group of fans and apologists his positives with the public have plummeted.

According to Q Scores, only 10% of people who are familiar with Armstrong view him positively, compared with 29% who see him negatively. In 2004, those numbers were 16% positive and 17% negative.
Click to expand...

His negative numbers are now triple his positives and that trend is getting worse fast. What happens when the evidence and books, etc., come out. There is no upside but if he can hold close to that 10% he can live in that bubble and make a living off of that not insubstantial number of really dedicated fans (stuck with him through everything) indefinately.
 
Maxiton

Maxiton

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Clemson Cycling said:
This was in the ESPN article this morning

Every sponsor of Armstrong or the Foundation chose to publicly stand by them Friday. Nike, Anheuser-Busch, Oakley, Johnson Health Tech, Sporting KC, FRS, Honey Stinger and American Century Investments all issued statements of support.
Click to expand...
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...ees-78k-donations-25-times-greater-normal-day
Click to expand...

hfer07 said:
Will ASO file lawsuit for damages to their race's image & fraud?
big money there-500,000 euros per tour plus interests plus whatever they can come up with can sum up to 5 mills..
Click to expand...

Corporations generally line up behind a sure thing. So here's a thought: what if ASO does file suit? Against Travis Tygart and USADA? And what if they're joined in the suit by UCI and USA Cycling?
 
DirtyWorks

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Maxiton said:
Corporations generally line up behind a sure thing. So here's a thought: what if ASO does file suit? Against Travis Tygart and USADA? And what if they're joined in the suit by UCI and USA Cycling?
Click to expand...

The ASO are still holding all the cards for the 7x wins. They don't need a lawsuit in some far off country. They answer to no one in a way the UCI could only dream.

We haven't seen the last of the UCI's lunacy and corruption that's for sure. Whatever story Wonderboy has on Hein and Pat is bigger than the IOC recognition for cycling. They are willing to risk their IOC recognition and have helped meet that end already.

The rest of the few wins are probably not important even if they are ASO events.

Also, keep in mind it is far cheaper to let a sponsorship contract simply lapse then try to exit one early. I think Wonderboy will be too radioactive for some for a while. It will take some time for those contracts to lapse though. it will take some times for the adverts running to stop too simply because of the way the industry works.
 
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henryg

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Maxiton said:
Corporations generally line up behind a sure thing. So here's a thought: what if ASO does file suit? Against Travis Tygart and USADA? And what if they're joined in the suit by UCI and USA Cycling?
Click to expand...

Armstrong already lost that suit in US courts.

ASO doesn't want any more publicity around doping at the Tour then it already has.

The UCI can't survive without Olympic revenue stream.

The UCI and ASO just want this to go away as quickly as possible. If the route that does the least damage is enforcing the USADA sanctions and hoping the press loses interest soon after thats the way it will go. At this point Armstrong is a liability.
 
Microchip

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D-Queued said:
...

In terms of who else should be paid back, unfortunately the USADA case does not go back to the $1m from the triple crown. Steve Swart has confirmed, through deposition, that Lance 'bribed' other riders and teams to secure that win.

Dave.
Click to expand...

His third TDF win? 2001? (Just want to be clear on what 'triple cown' refers to. After all, I have offline arguments to win! ;) ;) )
 
mewmewmew13

mewmewmew13

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Microchip said:
Thanks. I knew this / should have known this. Actually I completely forgot what it was. Sheesh...and I follow cycling! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

We can't always access our mental rolodex of lance facts...at least I sure can't remember everything. :eek:

I would think there should be some damages paid out for emotional turmoil and loss of wages, expenses and similar to folks like Mike and Betsy.

Also, since he supposedly was the one who suggested or initiated the FFF, if I recall correctly :p, he should cover the sum of Floyd's repayment.
Fair enough?
 
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GotDropped

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D-Queued said:
In terms of who else should be paid back, unfortunately the USADA case does not go back to the $1m from the triple crown. Steve Swart has confirmed, through deposition, that Lance 'bribed' other riders and teams to secure that win.
Dave.
Click to expand...

Microchip said:
His third TDF win? 2001? (Just want to be clear on what 'triple cown' refers to. After all, I have offline arguments to win! ;) ;) )
Click to expand...

Benotti69 said:
It was the year he won the World Road Race.

But not a true Triple Crown.

See here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Crown_of_Cycling
Click to expand...

Nope, the triple crown D-Queued is referring to is this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FS78yC1wQA
 
Microchip

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D-Queued said:
In terms of who else should be paid back, unfortunately the USADA case does not go back to the $1m from the triple crown. Steve Swart has confirmed, through deposition, that Lance 'bribed' other riders and teams to secure that win.

Dave.
Click to expand...

I've searched for the Internet for a copy of this, can you provide a link? (Not doubting at all, need to see it in print though.)
 
D-Queued

D-Queued

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Microchip said:
I've searched for the Internet for a copy of this, can you provide a link? (Not doubting at all, need to see it in print though.)
Click to expand...

Hi Microchip,

I have transcribed and provided various extracts in this forum.

Here is some of that deposition:


11 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
12 STEPHEN SWART
13 JANUARY 11, 2006
...
6 A. It was in 1993. There was a race series in
7 West Virginia, or sorry, not West Virginia alone, but
8 in the West Coast, consisted of three ra -- three
9 races: Pittsburgh, the Tour West Virginia, and the
10 Philadelphia Core States Classic, a one-day race. The
11 prize for the overall that was offered that year was a
12 million dollars.
13 After Pittsburgh where Lance showed his
14 dominance and then continued on through West Virginia
15 to dominate that race, prior to its finish, we were
16 approached to -- to obviously help them -- well,
17 basically not help them, but to not attack them.
18 Q. When you say not attack them, what do you
19 mean?
20 A. Basically just go with the flow, not actually
21 make life difficult, or, you know, like you would be
22 aggressive in a race, to --
23 Q. To not push or challenge Mr. Armstrong?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. To, in effect, allow him to -- to continue to
0010
1 win?
2 A. Yes.
...


18 Q. What transpired in that hotel room?
19 A. Basically, we'd come to an agreement about
20 what was on offer and what we had to do to accept that
21 and acceptance of that offer.
22 Q. What was the offer?
23 A. If my memory serves me right, I think it was
24 $50,000, if we -- like I said, we didn't be aggressive
25 and challenge for the rest of the race and obviously
0012
1 for the final race in Philadelphia.
2 MR. HERMAN: I'm sorry. Could you -- I
3 didn't get that last part.
4 Would you mind repeating that, please.
5 THE WITNESS: If we didn't challenge for
6 the -- for the finale of West Virginia, and
7 we obviously -- and Lance was -- gained victory in
8 Philadelphia.
9 Q. (BY MR. TILLOTSON) If that happened, you
10 would get what? $50,000?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So, in effect, is it fair to say that you
13 were offered money to not challenge Mr. Armstrong, to
14 allow him to win?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. If Mr. Armstrong had won West Virginia and
17 was winning Philadelphia, why would he pay you and
18 your teammates $50,000 to win?
19 A. It's a bit like ensuring that you've taken
20 one competitor out, isn't it?
21 Q. Did you feel wrong in accepting this?
22 A. No, I mean, we felt that Lance was the -- by
23 far superseded any of us as far as strength-wise
24 competitively. We didn't feel like any of us had the
25 ability to win or to be able to be -- to put ourselves
0013
1 in a position to win. So, you know, it's a -- it's a
2 business, and we took it -- we took the business
3 option.
4 Q. Mr. Armstrong was present when this took
5 place, this conversation?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did he actually make the offer?
8 A. I think it was -- coincided with Phil's
9 agreement, yes.
10 Q. Now, what happened if they didn't win? Would
11 you get the bonus?
12 A. No, we didn't get the bonus.
13 Q. Did you guys agree to keep this quiet?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Was that specifically mentioned, let's keep
16 it quiet?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Why?
19 A. Well, it's not a -- it's not ethical if you
20 look in the -- in the sporting arena, is it?
...
6 Q. You were -- you were getting paid some money
7 to -- to agree to not challenge Mr. Armstrong, even
8 though you didn't think you could challenge him?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. So for you it was essentially a bonus? I
11 mean, a --
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Now, were you in fact paid the money?
14 A. Yes, we were.
...
2 Q. (BY MR. TILLOTSON) What did you conclude
3 about Mr. Armstrong and EPO at the end of that ride?
4 A. That for us to be competitive at the tour
5 that year, that we needed to start a medical program
6 of EPO.
7 Q. What transpired next with respect to this --
8 this medical program?
9 A. It was basically a one on -- done on an
10 individual basis, and we took care of matters in our
11 own way.
12 Q. How did you go about it?
13 A. I went about it through procuring it through
14 a pharmacy in Switzerland, and then on the advice of
15 Max, the doctor, on how to administer it, started the
16 course.
17 Q. Did Dr. Testa -- Max Testa tell you how to
18 administer the EPO?
19 A. As far as -- as far as what quantities and
20 time frames, yes.


Dave.
 
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