Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[Alpe d'Huez]

Aerodynamics, or whatever you'd like to call yourself now, you really do need to leave. You are not welcome here. You probably never will be. You think I have some vendetta against you, but it isn't I. Every other mod, and every admin agrees that you should not be posting here, and should never come back. It's sad, and a little pathetic that after being both politely asked to leave several times, and then thrown out I don't know how many times, you feel the need to return. Is this all there is to your life?

I suggested to you before that you find another forum to visit, maybe Road Bike Review or Team Radio Shack, as they would more likely support your cause. If you really do feel the need to mix it up in debate with others, Cycling Forums and Daily Peloton, or even Cutting Edge Muscle are active with people who would be fit your needs.

But you sir, are not welcome here.

 

[pedaling squares]

Oh yes Floyd and thank you for cheating at the first ToC. Thank you for cheating at the tour of georgia. Oh and thank you for cheating at those monumental stage races in europe. you make us so proud Fred Taylor

PS Do you think you might get sued for all the races you cheating in and won? What do you think the clean riders you "beat" feel? Or the promoters or us fans feel? That goes for you too Joe Papp AKA Papillion. Thanks for clearing you conscience. NOT!

Sir, I don't care for the way you preach.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Aerodynamics, or whatever you'd like to call yourself now, you really do need to leave. You are not welcome here. You probably never will be. You think I have some vendetta against you, but it isn't I. Every other mod, and every admin agrees that you should not be posting here, and should never come back. It's sad, and a little pathetic that after being both politely asked to leave several times, and then thrown out I don't know how many times, you feel the need to return. Is this all there is to your life?

I suggested to you before that you find another forum to visit, maybe Road Bike Review or Team Radio Shack, as they would more likely support your cause. If you really do feel the need to mix it up in debate with others, Cycling Forums and Daily Peloton, or even Cutting Edge Muscle are active with people who would be fit your needs.

But you sir, are not welcome here.

 

[Wroots Clutten]

Landis or Armstrong? Landis or Armstrong? Think bigger.

These guys are useful, but temporary. It's the UCI we should question. Why are they so protective of Armstrong? What are they afraid of?

More importantly, and perhaps more usefully, What are they aiming for? Where do they hope to be in 5 years time?

Find the goal, find the motive.

 

[flicker]

I am sorry. I was lucky enough not to be in your congregation, please pedal square back to your flock, your secret is safe there.

 

[Road Hazard]

Those allegations are irrelevant. The only relevant allegations are the ones Floyd is making about Armstrong. And none of the muppets can answer a simple question. If Floyd is a liar and spreading unfounded accusations, why is he not already the subject of a defamation lawsuit? Why is Lance not threatening him as he threatened others with legal action?

We already know why.

Yes we do, Armstrong doesn't want depositions.

I do not suggest that Landis is lying about doping at Postal Service. From what I understand, there are positive test results connected to Armstrong through the French reporter who connected the test ids. There is the universal question of how Armstrong could be the 2nd, 3rd and etc. podium finishers who are proven dopers, all without doping.

The only point I'm trying to make is: let's not elevate one scum-bag to hero status just to topple another scum-bag.

One scum-bag making millions is already irritating enough. Two scum-bags making millions is twice as irritating.

 

[Cal_Joe]

Those allegations are irrelevant. The only relevant allegations are the ones Floyd is making about Armstrong. And none of the muppets can answer a simple question. If Floyd is a liar and spreading unfounded accusations, why is he not already the subject of a defamation lawsuit? Why is Lance not threatening him as he threatened others with legal action?

We already know why.

Moose, I think you have missed the point that (in the real world outside of this forum) this is a PR battle. Nothing is irrelevant. Regarding lack of lawsuits, Flandis not only broke Omerta, but named more one than person and several governing bodies. Because of that, nothing is irrelevant. Flandis will be pilloried, then slowly slide out of the mainstream news radar.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes we do, Armstrong doesn't want depositions.

I do not suggest that Landis is lying about doping at Postal Service. From what I understand, there are positive test results connected to Armstrong through the French reporter who connected the test ids. There is the universal question of how Armstrong could be the 2nd, 3rd and etc. podium finishers who are proven dopers, all without doping.

The only point I'm trying to make is: let's not elevate one scum-bag to hero status just to topple another scum-bag.

One scum-bag making millions is already irritating enough. Two scum-bags making millions is twice as irritating.

Who is elevating Floyd to hero status? I've said that he's has been a liar and a cheat. Telling the truth about Armstrong isn't about making Floyd a hero. It's about cleaning up our sport.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Regarding lack of lawsuits, Flandis not only broke Omerta, but named one than more person and several governing bodies.

What does that have to do with the fact that Lance isn't suing? That's right, NOTHING.

 

[Road Hazard]

More importantly, and perhaps more usefully, What are they aiming for? Where do they hope to be in 5 years time?

Find the goal, find the motive.

You know, this question came up (in another context) last time I was bike shopping. My LBS sells Trek only. They are extraordinarily nice folks, and I wanted to both support them and, if possible, buy a bike actually made in America.

I equivocated for weeks thinking the Madone, made in Wisconsin, was the obvious choice. But I was going to be g*d damned if I supported Armstrong the doper, wife cheater, Sheryl Crow dating, childish zinger tweeting dumbass.

I kept asking myself, what the hell does Trek plan to do when Armstrong does (god willing) retire.

Just like modern corporate culture. Profits are measured in quarters, not years. So the management goes with the current money maker. Let future quarters figure themselves out.

Disappointing, but seems to be the reality.

 

[La Vie Claire]

Not sure if anyone has posted this link (although I have read most of the thread). Thought it was quite interesting.

"Apparently, he's never heard of tough love. McQuaid's statement raised more concerns about his fitness to lead than it did about Landis' credibility. He should be a vigilant top officer, yet he sounds like a gang leader telling residents of a troubled neighborhood: "Don't snitch.""

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/20/SPQ81DI61P.DTL

Thanks for the link. Have you read the comments on the article? Does LA hire shills to post comments or are Americans just plain dumb? Probably both I guess.

 

[Publicus]

Moose, I think you have missed the point that (in the real world outside of this forum) this is a PR battle. Nothing is irrelevant. Regarding lack of lawsuits, Flandis not only broke Omerta, but named more one than person and several governing bodies. Because of that, nothing is irrelevant. Flandis will be pilloried, then slowly slide out of the mainstream news radar.

I think Floyd will disappear for awhile, but not because he is being pilloried. If he is going to cooperate with the Feds and others, he damages their ability to prosecute this matter if he's spilling his information to the press in an attempt to defend himself. I think the bigger story is that according to the NY Times at least two of the people Floyd named in the emails have been contacted by the doping agencies about cooperating in exchange for leniency and both are considering it (there is a thread here in the Clinic). For me, that's a pretty important piece of information. If one or more folks corroborate what he is saying, this thing stops being about Floyd and starts being about Armstrong, Hog and others.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Oh yes Floyd and thank you for cheating at the first ToC. Thank you for cheating at the tour of georgia. Oh and thank you for cheating at those monumental stage races in europe. you make us so proud Fred Taylor

PS Do you think you might get sued for all the races you cheating in and won? What do you think the clean riders you "beat" feel? Or the promoters or us fans feel? That goes for you too Joe Papp AKA Papillion. Thanks for clearing you conscience. NOT!

Who are these clean riders you speak of?

 

[vrusimov]

It´s a matter of how the public sees it or how the involved parties see it. There´s never 100% safe evidence. Not even in DNA-cases.

You say he didn´t dope because the "independent" UCI-Man (Virjam) said he didn´t. What makes the UCI-Man a better person than for example any attorney of other accused cyclists. In your point of view no one ever has doped. Because as far as i remember every cyclist had some evidence, that they have not doped, brought up by their attorneys.

Your logic is lousy, because you ignore one side. Lance Armstrong is convicted, only PR-Tricks and the corrupt UCI saved him. Other riders were banned/forced to retire with a lot less evidence.

...convicted by who?...you?...last i checked Armstrong is still enjoying the fruits of a successful, though in your opinion, tainted career...

...relax sir...if indeed Armstrong has been stupid enough to confide in Landis on training rides as to the ins and outs of doping then you may soon get your wish to see him humiliated and destroyed...

...until then, keep the faith...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I'm not sure what's to consider.

If Floyd is wrong, they come out and deny it vigorously and sue him for defamation.

They're only "considering" whether or not to cooperate because Floyd is right and they want to figure out what road results in the lesser chance of punishment: truth or Omerta.

 

[Road Hazard]

Thanks for the link. Have you read the comments on the article? Does LA hire shills to post comments or are Americans just plain dumb? Probably both I guess.

The majority of Americans are dumb.

So are a majority of the French.

In fact, 50% of all people worldwide are dumber than the average.




Footnote: yes technically 50% is not a majority and only 49% are dumber than the average.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Moose, I think you have missed the point that (in the real world outside of this forum) this is a PR battle. Nothing is irrelevant. Regarding lack of lawsuits, Flandis not only broke Omerta, but named more one than person and several governing bodies. Because of that, nothing is irrelevant. Flandis will be pilloried, then slowly slide out of the mainstream news radar.

Both are liars - and both have 'credibility' issues - but this current issue is about which story is accurate, Lances or Floyd's.

It is a PR battle - however for the first time Lance is under scrutiny from the main stream media - and it appears to be a battle that Lance is losing.

Here is an excerpt from a New York Times pieceon the emails released by Lance earlier today.

Bruyneel has characterized Landis’s efforts “blackmail,” but the messages posted Friday focused on Landis’s effort to race at the Tour of California, not on a money-for-silence scheme.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

In fact, 50% of all people worldwide are dumber than the average.

Actually, 50% are dumber than the median, not the average.

 

[flicker]

Thanks for the link. Have you read the comments on the article? Does LA hire shills to post comments or are Americans just plain dumb? Probably both I guess.

Betsy sounds like a wonderful person. The article comes from the city SF where I grew up.

Funny, I heard the commentators on KNBR sportstalk say yesterday, Floyd ran up a hill and jammed a stick in Lances front wheel and caused him to crash.
And later this comment, during 21 day european stage races riders need to use something to keep going at that speed for that long day after day. Just as american football players need to take something to get them through the games throughout the season.

I would like to hear Betsys take on those comments, I believe them doping is true and have believed it is true as long as sports have existed.
I heard armstrong in interview saying the ancient olympians used cocaine to fuel their sport. As coca has been found in the pharohs tombs lance might be right. Her husband was a pro bike rider ...wasn't he?

 

[Road Hazard]

Actually, 50% are dumber than the median, not the average.

Damnit, that's really far too technical, and with the margin of error in any statistical analysis (or rather, intelligence test), we'll never know what the true median is.

 

[Cal_Joe]

What does that have to do with the fact that Lance isn't suing? That's right, NOTHING.

In PR battles, lawsuits prolong visibility. As I intimated, the UCI, LA, Zabriskie, Hincapie, Bruyneel, Vaughters, etc. have no interest in keeping this visible.

I think you are mistaking me for a fan of one person or another. I tend to be a fan of cycling and not personalities. I do not believe that any of my posts on this thread exhibit any fanboy enthusiasm or crushes (except for that nice Dr. Maserati, who will buy me dinner and a good wine).

I have the uncomfortable feeling that a neutral stance here is violating some type of forum code. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Damnit, that's really far too technical, and with the margin of error in any statistical analysis (or rather, intelligence test), we'll never know what the true median is.

The median's just the 50th percentile, as in the 50th percentile in an IQ test.

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

In PR battles, lawsuits prolong visibility. As I intimated, the UCI, LA, Zabriskie, Hincapie, Bruyneel, Vaughters, etc. have no interest in keeping this visible.

I think you are mistaking me for a fan of one person or another. I tend to be a fan of cycling and not personalities. I do not believe that any of my posts on this thread exhibit any fanboy enthusiasm or crushes (except for that nice Dr. Maserati, who will buy me dinner and a good wine).

I have the uncomfortable feeling that a neutral stance here is violating some type of forum code. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

You're wrong. Neutrality is fine. But if you're not outraged by what's going on in cycling, you're not paying attention.

 

[hfer07]

I think Floyd will disappear for awhile, but not because he is being pilloried. If he is going to cooperate with the Feds and others, he damages their ability to prosecute this matter if he's spilling his information to the press in an attempt to defend himself. I think the bigger story is that according to the NY Times at least two of the people Floyd named in the emails have been contacted by the doping agencies about cooperating in exchange for leniency and both are considering it (there is a thread here in the Clinic). For me, that's a pretty important piece of information. If one or more folks corroborate what he is saying, this thing stops being about Floyd and starts being about Armstrong, Hog and others.

Feds are eager to catch the big dogs & FLandis ain't one of them-the same situation happened when they caught Marion Jones-they went after the doping ring,found her coach & finally he gave her up. I wonder when the situation gets uglier, who's going to turn against who? will LA give up the Hog & his connections in exchange for a minor sentence?

 

[BroDeal]

Feds are eager to catch the big dogs & FLandis ain't one of them-the same situation happened when they caught Marion Jones-they went after the doping ring,found her couch & finally he gave her up.

She should have bought a Lazy Boy. I hear those are stand up couches that are willing to do a nickel or even a dime instead of rolling over on their owners..

Sorry.