Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[ExRower]

welcome to the forums Aerodynamic :-\

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

In my opinion Floyd Landis is a madman.

He lost his credibility with me when his goon threatened LeMond before Flandis hearing.
Until then I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I believe the top nine behind him were doping in the tour thus a level playing field.

Floyd was thusly burned by having his victory erased.
Floyds goal in the trial was to bankrupt WADA and USADA.
However for Floyd to confided in about his doping to LeMond tells me he is stupid. Because LeMond is honest and does promote honest and clean sport. Floyd wanted Greg to be a part of the cheating. Greg chose not to participate. Floyds goon threatens LeMond. After everything I respect Greg LeMond more than ever.

Ever since his guilty sentence I see a bad man a liar. He lies in court is a proven liar. Sociopath and ill man Floyd.

10 Livestrong points for you, flicker. May be redeemable at the RadioShack store for:

a) 10 minutes of sniffing Lance's chamois
b) A night spooning with Bob Roll
c) Autographed copy of "My Battle Against Senility" by Phil Liggett
d) Paul Sherwen's "Guide to California's Agriculture"

 

[palmerq]

floyd says he wants to confess now due to the statute of limitations running out next month(I guess he means june) or whatever... and these emails are nearly a month old and it seems he has met with the anti doping guys.... so surely quite soon we should have an answer of how this will end...

 

[gree0232]

Does Landis need to prove his innocence of being a liar? I thought anyone was assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. Landis has not been convicted of lying, has he?



I thought about the possibility that Landis didn't tell the truth, but consider it much more likely that he actually did.



Again, you don't have to argue about 'the system' with me - that's not my responsibility. Again, nobody has said that Armstrong will be found formally guilty of doping - I don't think he will. Again, since you seemed to have been irked by people ignoring repeated rebuttals, you're showing a startling inability to avoid the mistakes you identify in others.

Really? So far, I have been called a hypocrit, stupid, and a few other choice words for daring to hold the opinion that the system is the determiner rather than our opinion alone.

Now, let me clue you in on some other intangibles. I don't just sit on my a** for a living. In our modern era of terrorism, etc., some of us get to travel around the world combating those dirt bags. Part of that effort is regional and local coordination with law enforcement and judicial systems. Thus I have had the opportunity to deal with several different systems around the world and have learned a few things.

THings like in the French system, the judge is empowered not to adjudicate, but to deliberately seek the truth. The inability of the French to garner a conviction in that system - and the warrent issued for Floyd - are thus VERY telling.

Have worked with the Gendarmie in some very rough places, let me tell you those guys are no one's patsy. If there were evidence, they WILL go after you - as will the prosecuters who support them. Again, the failure to garner a conviction in that system is telling.

And the system is broken? THe same system that produced conviction or its equivalent against Ullrich, Basso, etc., and appears poised to nail Valverde is fundamentally flawed because it cannot garner a convuction of Armstrong? The entire system - which works well as catching terrorists - is broke because of its failures with Armstrong? Seriously?

At this point I would put the most adamanet Lance bashers in the same category as Birthers.

Citizenship, like anything, has regulations and standards. The standard for Obama's citizenship has been met many times over, and still people persist in ther beliefs - and Obama is still the President.

(Interesting how birthers also attempt to use tactics such as, "You just can't handle the truth and you hero is going to fall!")

Conversely, the people that are conviced that Lance is doped are entitiled that opinion. THey are not entitled to bash others for not just jumping on the old bandwagon at the end of the day.

For, just like Obama, at the end of the day - Lance (and everyone else Landis accussed) are still on their bikes.

The system works.

So again, I would appreciate less comments directed at me, and at least some attempt to present evidence that Landis is telling the truth.

HE MIGHT BE! But without evidence it does not matter.

 

[gree0232]

10 Livestrong points for you, flicker. May be redeemable at the RadioShack store for:

a) 10 minutes of sniffing Lance's chamois
b) A night spooning with Bob Roll
c) Autographed copy of "My Battle Against Senility" by Phil Liggett
d) Paul Sherwen's "Guide to California's Agriculture"

Oh look ANOTHER guy who think personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion are the way forward. YEAH!!!

 

[gree0232]

Does Landis need to prove his innocence of being a liar? I thought anyone was assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. Landis has not been convicted of lying, has he?



I thought about the possibility that Landis didn't tell the truth, but consider it much more likely that he actually did.



Again, you don't have to argue about 'the system' with me - that's not my responsibility. Again, nobody has said that Armstrong will be found formally guilty of doping - I don't think he will. Again, since you seemed to have been irked by people ignoring repeated rebuttals, you're showing a startling inability to avoid the mistakes you identify in others.

Yes, Landis DOES need to produce evidence. Otherwise you get into things like libel and slander. Or nothing happens and this fades.

THE SYSTEM does not operate on innuendo and accussation. It cannot, and should not.

What are you even argueing at this point? That it should? That we should just believe EVERY accussation we hear?

Are you prepared to accuse Dave Z of doping? Tom D? Hincapie? Contador? Alen Lim for Christ's sake! The UCI is doping!?!

So all of that is a lie, except the part about Lance????? What???? What are you saying?

 

[offbyone]

Ah, newsflash.....

You do realise most of the athletes and people in power that Landis has named are still very much involved in the sport?

So? Newsflash, there are tons of convicted dopers racing in the pro peloton today. And many of them are still competing at the highest level. So what does it matter?

If that is your point of view, then I assume you also think guys like Vino shouldn't be racing today?

It also shows - what many of us already thought - that Pro Cycling is corrupt from the top down, if nothing is done to change that then guess what happens?

I disagree. Pro Cycling has changed. Testing has massively increased in both volume and technology. The passport technology is a huge step. Working hand and hand with pharmaceuticals is another example that shows the serious steps being taken. The agencies are taking a more consistent approach and harder line with doping. Change occurs slowly, but I do feel change is occuring.

We can't change history today so what is the point? What value will this add?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Oh look ANOTHER guy who think personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion are the way forward. YEAH!!!

Are you going to answer my question are just continue to write long posts which have little substance or relevance?

 

[workingclasshero]

Oh look ANOTHER guy who think personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion are the way forward. YEAH!!!

oh the irony of a lance lover saying this

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

So again, I would appreciate less comments directed at me, and at least some attempt to present evidence that Landis is telling the truth.

HE MIGHT BE! But without evidence it does not matter.

Why do you expect the people here to have the evidence? It has been repeatedly said, this is an internet discussion forum and not a court of law.

Please tone down your aggressiveness.

Thank you.

Susan

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Oh look ANOTHER guy who think personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion are the way forward. YEAH!!!

 

[goldcycle26]

There are a few ways this thing gets legs.

2) U.S. police investigation. I am not convinced that FLandis' contact with the FDA is anymore than sending emails or a phone call.

Read in Article that Floyd and FDA Agents holding press conference tomorrow sometime before/during/after the time trial at the ToC.

Stating this for the second time

 

[Kennf1]

The system works.

[/B]

Uh huh. Landis sytematically doped his entire career and had one positive test. Thomas Frie did epo for 3 years and only failed a test because he didn't drink enough water the night before. Let's see, how many tests did Ullrich, Valverde, and Basso fail? Somewhere around ... none?

 

[oncearunner]

I read the entire email chain and I fail to see how it in any way helps Floyd's case.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Oh look ANOTHER guy who think personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion are the way forward. YEAH!!!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I read the entire email chain and I fail to see how it in any way helps Floyd's case.

Oh you fail, all right.

It certainly doesn't help Lance, which was the entire point of posting it on the RadioShack site.

 

[Aerodynamic]

Why do you expect the people here to have the evidence? It has been repeatedly said, this is an internet discussion forum and not a court of law.

Please tone down your aggressiveness.

Thank you.

Susan

I don't think he is demanding evidence from forum members. My take of reading the thread is he is asking where the evidence is for this prosecution. So far nobody has been able to answer him.

I think more people have been aggressive towards him than the other way around. Have you warned them to stop baiting him and tone down the mocking language?

 

[therhodeo]

Oh you fail, all right.

Ding ding. I believe we have a winner.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So? Newsflash, there are tons of convicted dopers racing in the pro peloton today. And many of them are still competing at the highest level. So what does it matter?

If that is your point of view, then I assume you also think guys like Vino shouldn't be racing today?


I disagree. Pro Cycling has changed. Testing has massively increased in both volume and technology. The passport technology is a huge step. Working hand and hand with pharmaceuticals is another example that shows the serious steps being taken. The agencies are taking a more consistent approach and harder line with doping. Change occurs slowly, but I do feel change is occuring.

We can't change history today so what is the point? What value will this add?

Guess what, you assumed wrong.

If you want my POV read my posts - if I have failed to articulate my views then ask.

You go on about drug testing and the Passport - if a rider pays 'donations' and they are accepted by the UCI - then drug controls are meaningless.

FYI -I have no problem with Vino being back (which I have stated on other threads) - you do the crime, you do the time.

 

[offbyone]

Guess what, you assumed wrong.

If you want my POV read my posts - if I have failed to articulate my views then ask.

You go on about drug testing and the Passport - if a rider pays 'donations' and they are accepted by the UCI - then drug controls are meaningless.

FYI -I have no problem with Vino being back (which I have stated on other threads) - you do the crime, you do the time.

Lets clarify your point of view. You are against the idea of DZ, Barry, Lance, Hincapie, Leipheimer, etc being in the pro peloton because they are being accused of doping years ago. But you are ok with Vino and other convicted dopers being in the peloton because they paid their dues. So what you want is for all these guys to get 2 year suspensions?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why do you expect the people here to have the evidence? It has been repeatedly said, this is an internet discussion forum and not a court of law.

Please tone down your aggressiveness.

Thank you.

Susan

You may have missed my earlier post on this Susan.......

'Gee0232" managed to write a long post and the have the post below out within TWO MINUTES.

Lances PR people are under a lot of pressure at the moment, so it is not suprising if they appear aggresive.

Written in TWO MINUTES:

Agh, great evidence, please see post above. I have tried to keep an open mind with Lance, and have looked at both sides using the standard to form my conclusion.

The proof must be 50.1%.

And trust me, despite your, "Anyone who disagree with my opinion of Lance is simply uniformed or stupid," attitude, I assure you I have done my homework. And, why is this attitide acceptable? I have always said that Lance may very well be doped, and for some reason the possibility of the opposite is apostatsy? Why? If that is the case, than this is not about evidence - and th system simply cannot, will not, and should not adjust to accomodate emotive accussations.

The systems that looked into Lance's activity and concluded there was not enough information or evidence available to convict Lance - even with 6 apparent positive tests. That standard shuold have sunk him, it didn't. That says something - just maybe no what you want it to.

 

[Animal]

so, this is a place for hyeneas to gather ? I prefer rational dialogue, not mindless vitriol.

Fuck off then.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Lets clarify your point of view. You are against the idea of DZ, Barry, Lance, Hincapie, Leipheimer, etc being in the pro peloton because they are being accused of doping years ago. But you are ok with Vino and other convicted dopers being in the peloton because they paid their dues. So what you want is for all these guys to get 2 year suspensions?

If they have doped - yes.

And I will add that anyone who has been convicted of 'wilful cheating' can be suspended for 4 years - which Pat McQuaid is on the record as saying this icludes blood boosters like CERA.

Also Levi, with a prior conviction could face an 8 year sanction.

 

[Animal]

God, the internet forums gets a bit sad and pathetic when the timezone rolls round to Seppostan.

 

[Anonymous]

Lance seems to be having memory problems regarding questions asked at yesterdays press conference..

This might jog his memory a bit