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Velonews just picked up on that whistle blower angle in this case. If something comes of the Federal case, and he gets a decent pile of money, maybe he could reimburse all the people who donated to his defense fund? Just putting the idea out there.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...741?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...741?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Bump so that moronic threads like those titled "Confused" and "landis" do not fulfill their purpose of pushing real threads to the second page.
blackcat said:
Pavel Tonkov, Gord Fraser, Baden Cooke, Fabrizio Guidi, Chris Horner, Henk Vogels, Mike Sayers, Chann McRae, Jans Koerts, Niklas Axelsson...
Yeah, clean as a whistle
Wasn't it Mike Sayers who just went off publically (written) on Joe Papp? He a DS at BMC now. How nice.
Thoughtforfood said:
can a mod not just sticky this one as the most thorough of the threads and the place for the questions that dont really need an entire thread.
- Apr 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:Pavel Tonkov, Gord Fraser, Baden Cooke, Fabrizio Guidi, Chris Horner, Henk Vogels, Mike Sayers, Chann McRae, Jans Koerts, Niklas Axelsson...
Yeah, clean as a whistle
Wasn't it Mike Sayers who just went off publically (written) on Joe Papp? He a DS at BMC now. How nice.
Yep Sayers absolutely went off on Papp back in 2008 on his blog, major Omerta enforcement hit job. I just Googled "Mike Sayers Joe Papp" in order to post the link for you, and Google finds his blog, but surprise surprise his blog has been taken down...
Probably has something to do with him working for BMC now.
blackcat said:
Previous to Mercury/Viatel was Nutra-Fig and the original, Continental Mercury. He was clean and super strong then. The addition of those Euros was the undoing of Worden's team and the clean boys started to go elsewhere because the "performance" line was definitely bbvious. You are right that Floyd's temptation may have began then but you would have been impressed with his legal strength back then. He was too green and unschooled to use it, unfortunately.
Floyd the Fraud?
Egg on My Face Again
By: Jamie Naragon
Like many other cycling fans, I’ve closely followed the Floyd “situation” since the news broke last week. Monday, after reading Bonnie Ford’s ESPN interview (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5215959 ) however, I felt compelled to try to express my opinions and insights. I recognize that I’m not an expert in the field of cycling; nor am I a massively prolific journalist. That being said, I am an avid fan with deep passion when it comes to cycling. And it is from this perspective that the following is said…..
On May 20th, The Wall Street Journal revealed to the world that Floyd Landis, the debatable winner of the 2006 Tour de France, had sent three emails to seven people affiliated with the sport, including representatives of USA Cycling and the UCI (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575255410855321120.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us). This came after 4 years and millions of dollars maintaining his innocence in all courts possible. With this history, it is understandable why some cycling fans are skeptical. He seemed to be this great American hero. Then, all these allegations started swirling, and many felt betrayed and confused. It's the “fool me once” mentality. I spoke these words nearly two years ago in defense of another American with a somewhat shady past--Tyler Hamilton (http://www.riis-cycling.com/fans_blog_latest.asp?blog_id=113). A mere seven months after I suggested that cycling fans needed to forgive Tyler for any possible indiscretion he may have committed, he tested positive for DHEA and, shortly thereafter, retired from the sport. I felt foolish for ever having believed in him. But, just because Hamilton demonstrated that I was erroneous for having trusted him didn’t mean that Floyd was the same way….
I had the honor of meeting Landis in early August, 2006 at an opening of a Robbie Ventura training facility in Chicago. I was impressed that, despite the fact that he was embroiled in such controversy, he still agreed to his committed appearance. He seemed relaxed (well, as relaxed as could be I suppose), and he held his head high. After speaking for a few minutes, he allowed those of us in attendance to meet him one-on-one. I told him then that I believed in him and would stand by him no matter what. I bought various posters and a “Free Floyd” shirt which I wore with great frequency. I later would contribute to the “Free Floyd” fund.
Over the course of the past four years, I also would defend his name and innocence anywhere I could. Most of my friends know little of the sport. Like many Americans, they only know what they hear in the media. As such, they would often accuse Floyd of doping without knowing almost any of the facts in the case. I would vehemently ascertain that there was more to the story. On cycling forums or discussion pages, I would state time and again that I believed him (i.e, http://www.bobbyjulich.com/?p=114 and http://www.chaoscyclingclub.com/forum). A picture of my with Floyd was even my profile picture on Facebook:
So after four years of fighting my own little battles to prove his innocence, I was stunned by the revelations from last week. I felt ill at how once again, someone I believed in so strongly had proved me wrong. Disgust and embarrassment were my initial responses and, as such, I felt I needed time to step back from the situation before embarking on telling others my impression of his “coming clean” and the remarks towards others in the cycling world. Now, with a week passed, I no longer am pushing to fricassee Floyd. Rather, I see him for what he is—a human.
Many times, athletes and celebrities are placed on a proverbial podium. It’s easy for “regular” people to forget that, though we idolize these individuals, they are merely humans. As such, they are flawed and prone to mistakes. In Floyd’s case, his mistake cost him family, friends, and respect (not to mention practically every dime to his name). He ultimately decided that his errors shouldn’t cost him his conscience.
Certainly many questions arise over his motivations. In his ESPN interview, he acknowledges that he made misjudgements that were caused by the rapidity of having to decide which path to take four years ago. He took the wrong one. He should have been honest from the start. Others in cycling have, once caught, come clean, served their time, then came back to the high end of the sport (perhaps most notably Garmin’s David Millar). The route he took left many suspicious of him and, as such, he’s had to struggle to come back to the level he has—a level even he admits is not where he’d like to be: “The races I do best at are the hard races in Europe, and I need to be on a Pro Tour team for that” (ESPN). Certainly his chances at a Pro Tour team hiring him now are slim to none, so achieving that goal cannot be a motivation for announcing the truth now.
It seems he had three motivations for telling the truth: 1) to stop lying (especially to his family); 2) to get rid of the guilt he’s felt for four years; and 3) because his current team (Bahati Foundation) works with inner-city kids, he wanted to show them drugs aren’t the answer. These are certainly admirable and respectable motivations. I’ve read numerous responses, however, where people feel he’s bitter and lashing out that he has not been able to “bounce back” from his past.
Perhaps he is bitter and jaded, but while many are upset that he’s naming names, I feel the timing is significant. He’s coming forward just as the statue of limitations is about to expire. By telling the truth now, he’s provided the necessary investigative entities a window in which to research the allegations should they choose to progress and clean the system. However, by waiting so close to the expiration, he’s limited the possibilities of a thorough investigation being concluded in time. He has little evidence other than his word, so he knows he’ll be able to rest easy and that those he has implicated will have little to worry about as well. Therefore, while many are criticizing him, saying he’s just pointing fingers out of anger, I feel he’s done so not to rip the system apart, but rather, to help clean the system without destroying all of cycling. Let’s face it—peoples’ minds are set regarding many of the cyclists he has named….he has not planted seeds of doubt about their credibility in the mindset of the casual fan. Besides, people generally admit to past errors after lengthy periods of time when it serves them. In this regard, Floyd has nothing to gain. I’d hope this public decree isn’t merely driven by petulance.
It seems that though Floyd is disgusted with certain aspects of cycling and its institution, as a whole, he cares deeply for the sport. This is evidenced by his refusal to theorize who may or may not be taking which performance enhancers today. He’s only talking about those things he asserts he knows from firsthand information. If he wanted to “take down all of cycling,” he would be saying he knows active cyclists are currently on EPO or CERA or testosterone. He also would probably not be continuing to ride.
Ultimately, the biggest issue is credibility. If we’re being honest, Floyd now has none. You cannot lie to anyone who would listen for four years and expect to be believed when you reverse yourself. But he never possessed this expectation. He has said that he “knew all along that once had taken a certain position, as soon as changed [my] story, the accusation was going to be [you’re] not credible. decided finally that don’t care anymore” (ESPN). At this point, as aforementioned, he truly has nothing to gain by telling the truth other than that which he says he seeks more than all else—a guilt-free conscience. He will never be exonerated in the court of public opinion, but that does not mean that what he says now is untrue.
Truthfully, I have so much egg on my face after defending both Tyler and him, I might as well make an omelet out of it and say that he’s finally telling the truth. Lying was cowardly, but admitting his errors is somewhat courageous. He could have just stayed quiet the rest of his life, slowly fading into obscurity. Now, we may not like what he has to say. Many may not even like him as a person. But many of us who are so quick to judge forget that, as he says, “Growing up, things were fairly black and white and life’s not really like that” (ESPN). There is probably so much that regular people were not privy to—nor will we ever receive the full account from all involved. So instead of belaboring that which we will never know, maybe it’s time to move on. Floyd seems remorseful for his crimes and he says he wishes he could make it up somehow. He can—by riding his bike and winning races cleanly. Show that though his reputation is now forever tarnished, he does still have the ability to be what many always wanted to believe him to be—a good bike rider. Besides, what illegitimate behaviors he may have done in the past are just that….in the past (http://www.riis-cycling.com/fans_blog_latest.asp?blog_id=113).
Egg on My Face Again
By: Jamie Naragon
Like many other cycling fans, I’ve closely followed the Floyd “situation” since the news broke last week. Monday, after reading Bonnie Ford’s ESPN interview (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5215959 ) however, I felt compelled to try to express my opinions and insights. I recognize that I’m not an expert in the field of cycling; nor am I a massively prolific journalist. That being said, I am an avid fan with deep passion when it comes to cycling. And it is from this perspective that the following is said…..
On May 20th, The Wall Street Journal revealed to the world that Floyd Landis, the debatable winner of the 2006 Tour de France, had sent three emails to seven people affiliated with the sport, including representatives of USA Cycling and the UCI (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575255410855321120.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us). This came after 4 years and millions of dollars maintaining his innocence in all courts possible. With this history, it is understandable why some cycling fans are skeptical. He seemed to be this great American hero. Then, all these allegations started swirling, and many felt betrayed and confused. It's the “fool me once” mentality. I spoke these words nearly two years ago in defense of another American with a somewhat shady past--Tyler Hamilton (http://www.riis-cycling.com/fans_blog_latest.asp?blog_id=113). A mere seven months after I suggested that cycling fans needed to forgive Tyler for any possible indiscretion he may have committed, he tested positive for DHEA and, shortly thereafter, retired from the sport. I felt foolish for ever having believed in him. But, just because Hamilton demonstrated that I was erroneous for having trusted him didn’t mean that Floyd was the same way….
I had the honor of meeting Landis in early August, 2006 at an opening of a Robbie Ventura training facility in Chicago. I was impressed that, despite the fact that he was embroiled in such controversy, he still agreed to his committed appearance. He seemed relaxed (well, as relaxed as could be I suppose), and he held his head high. After speaking for a few minutes, he allowed those of us in attendance to meet him one-on-one. I told him then that I believed in him and would stand by him no matter what. I bought various posters and a “Free Floyd” shirt which I wore with great frequency. I later would contribute to the “Free Floyd” fund.
Over the course of the past four years, I also would defend his name and innocence anywhere I could. Most of my friends know little of the sport. Like many Americans, they only know what they hear in the media. As such, they would often accuse Floyd of doping without knowing almost any of the facts in the case. I would vehemently ascertain that there was more to the story. On cycling forums or discussion pages, I would state time and again that I believed him (i.e, http://www.bobbyjulich.com/?p=114 and http://www.chaoscyclingclub.com/forum). A picture of my with Floyd was even my profile picture on Facebook:
So after four years of fighting my own little battles to prove his innocence, I was stunned by the revelations from last week. I felt ill at how once again, someone I believed in so strongly had proved me wrong. Disgust and embarrassment were my initial responses and, as such, I felt I needed time to step back from the situation before embarking on telling others my impression of his “coming clean” and the remarks towards others in the cycling world. Now, with a week passed, I no longer am pushing to fricassee Floyd. Rather, I see him for what he is—a human.
Many times, athletes and celebrities are placed on a proverbial podium. It’s easy for “regular” people to forget that, though we idolize these individuals, they are merely humans. As such, they are flawed and prone to mistakes. In Floyd’s case, his mistake cost him family, friends, and respect (not to mention practically every dime to his name). He ultimately decided that his errors shouldn’t cost him his conscience.
Certainly many questions arise over his motivations. In his ESPN interview, he acknowledges that he made misjudgements that were caused by the rapidity of having to decide which path to take four years ago. He took the wrong one. He should have been honest from the start. Others in cycling have, once caught, come clean, served their time, then came back to the high end of the sport (perhaps most notably Garmin’s David Millar). The route he took left many suspicious of him and, as such, he’s had to struggle to come back to the level he has—a level even he admits is not where he’d like to be: “The races I do best at are the hard races in Europe, and I need to be on a Pro Tour team for that” (ESPN). Certainly his chances at a Pro Tour team hiring him now are slim to none, so achieving that goal cannot be a motivation for announcing the truth now.
It seems he had three motivations for telling the truth: 1) to stop lying (especially to his family); 2) to get rid of the guilt he’s felt for four years; and 3) because his current team (Bahati Foundation) works with inner-city kids, he wanted to show them drugs aren’t the answer. These are certainly admirable and respectable motivations. I’ve read numerous responses, however, where people feel he’s bitter and lashing out that he has not been able to “bounce back” from his past.
Perhaps he is bitter and jaded, but while many are upset that he’s naming names, I feel the timing is significant. He’s coming forward just as the statue of limitations is about to expire. By telling the truth now, he’s provided the necessary investigative entities a window in which to research the allegations should they choose to progress and clean the system. However, by waiting so close to the expiration, he’s limited the possibilities of a thorough investigation being concluded in time. He has little evidence other than his word, so he knows he’ll be able to rest easy and that those he has implicated will have little to worry about as well. Therefore, while many are criticizing him, saying he’s just pointing fingers out of anger, I feel he’s done so not to rip the system apart, but rather, to help clean the system without destroying all of cycling. Let’s face it—peoples’ minds are set regarding many of the cyclists he has named….he has not planted seeds of doubt about their credibility in the mindset of the casual fan. Besides, people generally admit to past errors after lengthy periods of time when it serves them. In this regard, Floyd has nothing to gain. I’d hope this public decree isn’t merely driven by petulance.
It seems that though Floyd is disgusted with certain aspects of cycling and its institution, as a whole, he cares deeply for the sport. This is evidenced by his refusal to theorize who may or may not be taking which performance enhancers today. He’s only talking about those things he asserts he knows from firsthand information. If he wanted to “take down all of cycling,” he would be saying he knows active cyclists are currently on EPO or CERA or testosterone. He also would probably not be continuing to ride.
Ultimately, the biggest issue is credibility. If we’re being honest, Floyd now has none. You cannot lie to anyone who would listen for four years and expect to be believed when you reverse yourself. But he never possessed this expectation. He has said that he “knew all along that once had taken a certain position, as soon as changed [my] story, the accusation was going to be [you’re] not credible. decided finally that don’t care anymore” (ESPN). At this point, as aforementioned, he truly has nothing to gain by telling the truth other than that which he says he seeks more than all else—a guilt-free conscience. He will never be exonerated in the court of public opinion, but that does not mean that what he says now is untrue.
Truthfully, I have so much egg on my face after defending both Tyler and him, I might as well make an omelet out of it and say that he’s finally telling the truth. Lying was cowardly, but admitting his errors is somewhat courageous. He could have just stayed quiet the rest of his life, slowly fading into obscurity. Now, we may not like what he has to say. Many may not even like him as a person. But many of us who are so quick to judge forget that, as he says, “Growing up, things were fairly black and white and life’s not really like that” (ESPN). There is probably so much that regular people were not privy to—nor will we ever receive the full account from all involved. So instead of belaboring that which we will never know, maybe it’s time to move on. Floyd seems remorseful for his crimes and he says he wishes he could make it up somehow. He can—by riding his bike and winning races cleanly. Show that though his reputation is now forever tarnished, he does still have the ability to be what many always wanted to believe him to be—a good bike rider. Besides, what illegitimate behaviors he may have done in the past are just that….in the past (http://www.riis-cycling.com/fans_blog_latest.asp?blog_id=113).
- Feb 14, 2010
- 2,202
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Kennf1 said:
What is Floyd's real twitter account? Someone who tried to follow me said what you said (cursing in the process) and the whole account seemed angry, so I blocked them.
- May 2, 2009
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BikeCentric said:Yep Sayers absolutely went off on Papp back in 2008 on his blog, major Omerta enforcement hit job. I just Googled "Mike Sayers Joe Papp" in order to post the link for you, and Google finds his blog, but surprise surprise his blog has been taken down...
Probably has something to do with him working for BMC now.
Here you go: http://web.archive.org/web/20080530...singsaddle.com/2008/05/23/are-you-kidding-me/
just appeared on the net that bahati are stopping racing.
relevant?
http://cyclingreporter.com/2010/05/27/bahati-racing-team-to-shut-down/
relevant?
http://cyclingreporter.com/2010/05/27/bahati-racing-team-to-shut-down/
TeamSkyFans said:
Maybe that is what Dominguez was referring to in his twitter? Maybe it was just the cessation of the team and had nothing to do with a doping positive.
mashjaja said:
I shortend your intro to get to the hard part, your acceptance. Unfortunately, this drama is going to grind for awhile and everyone's perception of the players and sport will be tested. Floyd was like alot of riders; strong and naive. He thought it was about racing and heroic exploits instead of feeding a promotional and regulatory machine where he was expendable. Kind of like being a Union card carrying machinist in Detroit right now.
- Feb 14, 2010
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This is a bump as much as anything, but in case there are others like me who don't know Novitsky, I wanted to share this description from the Times Online (UK). For now I'm going to avoid photos and imagine him as the U.S. Marshall from Justified. I think that what's been missing from previous Armstrong investigations is a guy with a Glock handle poking out of his jacket and a SWAT team on speed dial.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7139602.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7139602.ece
theswordsman said:This is a bump as much as anything, but in case there are others like me who don't know Novitsky, I wanted to share this description from the Times Online (UK). For now I'm going to avoid photos and imagine him as the U.S. Marshall from Justified. I think that what's been missing from previous Armstrong investigations is a guy with a Glock handle poking out of his jacket and a SWAT team on speed dial.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7139602.ece
Fortunately he is much more formidable. Think of the total geek, obsessive, driven and enjoying no other life except the pursuit of one goal, much like the LA defenders on this and every other forum. There will be no gunfire; just relentless interroagatories to his attorneys that cost LA $275/hr for responses. Eventually LA yields to the truth: his bankroll and ego are no match for: THE FEDERAL EMPOWERED ATTORNEY. If he, Weisel, Carmichael and all the other minions in this mix aren't scared; they'll be broke before they know what hit them.
SpartacusRox
BANNED
- May 6, 2010
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thehog
BANNED
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This I did not know until now:
The first arbitration hearing, a 10-day affair at Pepperdine University in Malibu, went against Landis in a 2-1 decision. He appealed to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport and lost that as well. That panel ruled 3-0 against Landis, upheld his two-year competition ban and added an unprecedented twist: a $100,000 penalty to USADA for legal expenses.
The competition ban expired in January, but the $100,000 was due before he could obtain a cycling license allowing him to compete in races such as the Tour of California.
“He was unable to pay,” USADA CEO Travis Tygart said in an e-mail. “We agreed to a repayment plan where he pays the $100,000 over time. If he breaks the repayment agreement, he will not be eligible (to compete in future events).”
_____
Floyd Landis now lives in a cabin in Idyllwild he bought in 2007, high in the San Jacinto Mountains northeast of Murrieta. A month ago, citing “irreconcilable differences,” he filed for divorce after nearly nine years of marriage.
Public records show $815,000 worth of mortgage and home equity loans in his name. Two loans totaling $639,000 are for the house in Murrieta that he purchased for $487,000 in 2003 and, according to one popular real estate Web site, is worth $406,000 today – half of what it was at the market's height.
The first arbitration hearing, a 10-day affair at Pepperdine University in Malibu, went against Landis in a 2-1 decision. He appealed to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport and lost that as well. That panel ruled 3-0 against Landis, upheld his two-year competition ban and added an unprecedented twist: a $100,000 penalty to USADA for legal expenses.
The competition ban expired in January, but the $100,000 was due before he could obtain a cycling license allowing him to compete in races such as the Tour of California.
“He was unable to pay,” USADA CEO Travis Tygart said in an e-mail. “We agreed to a repayment plan where he pays the $100,000 over time. If he breaks the repayment agreement, he will not be eligible (to compete in future events).”
_____
Floyd Landis now lives in a cabin in Idyllwild he bought in 2007, high in the San Jacinto Mountains northeast of Murrieta. A month ago, citing “irreconcilable differences,” he filed for divorce after nearly nine years of marriage.
Public records show $815,000 worth of mortgage and home equity loans in his name. Two loans totaling $639,000 are for the house in Murrieta that he purchased for $487,000 in 2003 and, according to one popular real estate Web site, is worth $406,000 today – half of what it was at the market's height.
Interesting information.
Why did you not post it in the other thread with the link? You're not censoring out background information you think might reflect badly on Landis' decision to blab now from the sticky thread, are you?
Why did you not post it in the other thread with the link? You're not censoring out background information you think might reflect badly on Landis' decision to blab now from the sticky thread, are you?
Susan Westemeyer
Retired Moderator
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