Landis - 'Positively False'

[python]

I must be honest and admit that I have no endocrinological data to support that theory of mine. It would probably take some digging and extrapolation of various studies just to get close to an answer.
The theory of the testosterone-in-the-blood-bag was put forward by Bengt Saltin whos' opinion is slightly more qualified than mine

it's a possibility but a remote one in my estimation.

if flandis doped with his own blood,which is likely, the reasonable assumption (for the 2006 state of the ‘art’ ) would be that he used 3-4 single units taken before the strategic stages and spaced out throughout those three weeks.

on the following 6 dates, he tested positive or almost certainly positive for exogenous t (exoT): 7/11, 7/13, 7/18, 7/20, 7/22, 7/23. his urine tested positive via a particular t metabolite that studies tell us is well correlated with a transdermic t application.

also blood dilution factor after one bag (1/10) and t clearance rates should not have resulted in significant amounts of exoT in one bag. another factor was that irms positives time line exhibited a pattern different from significant fluctuation in his t/e.

 

[Hugh Januss]

it's a possibility but a remote one in my estimation.

if flandis doped with his own blood,which is likely, the reasonable assumption (for the 2006 state of the ‘art’ ) would be that he used 3-4 single units taken before the strategic stages and spaced out throughout those three weeks.

on the following 6 dates, he tested positive or almost certainly positive for exogenous t (exoT): 7/11, 7/13, 7/18, 7/20, 7/22, 7/23. his urine tested positive via a particular t metabolite that studies tell us is well correlated with a transdermic t application.

also blood dilution factor after one bag (1/10) and t clearance rates should not have resulted in significant amounts of exoT in one bag. another factor was that irms positives time line exhibited a pattern different from significant fluctuation in his t/e.

Is anyone other than myself curious as to what the results would have been if they tested the podium after Flandis was removed with the same exoT test rather than just the ratio test?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Sure. I'd like to have seen them run the carbon isotope analysis on everyone. I'd also like to see full disclosure of all sample results, not just what's in the biological passport, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Floyd hasn't been able to time trial his way out of a paper bag for the last year, why would he think he can break the hour record?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sure. I'd like to have seen them run the carbon isotope analysis on everyone. I'd also like to see full disclosure of all sample results, not just what's in the biological passport, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Floyd hasn't been able to time trial his way out of a paper bag for the last year, why would he think he can break the hour record?

I got no idea on that last one! Maybe take out a loan and go see Ferrari?

 

[Oldman]

it's a possibility but a remote one in my estimation.

if flandis doped with his own blood,which is likely, the reasonable assumption (for the 2006 state of the ‘art’ ) would be that he used 3-4 single units taken before the strategic stages and spaced out throughout those three weeks.

on the following 6 dates, he tested positive or almost certainly positive for exogenous t (exoT): 7/11, 7/13, 7/18, 7/20, 7/22, 7/23. his urine tested positive via a particular t metabolite that studies tell us is well correlated with a transdermic t application.

also blood dilution factor after one bag (1/10) and t clearance rates should not have resulted in significant amounts of exoT in one bag. another factor was that irms positives time line exhibited a pattern different from significant fluctuation in his t/e.

Thanks for the complete breakdown. It's one of the things I appreciate about the expertise you guys bring to the forum and it helps inform my guesswork.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Watching Floyd struggle at the back end of the Tour of the Gila crit was actually sad and somewhat difficult to watch. Watching him go around and around just hanging on the back was pretty strange, considering that less than 3 years earlier, he was standing on the TdF podium.

I heard from people that he had to be driven home from the bar that night by another team's van.

Pro cycling's a tough life.

 

[fatandfast]

Pro cycling is tough yes. Doing shots as part of your training is just f--king stupid. Landis is a joke. He used to have lots of snap before hipgate and all his world tour trying to raise funds to clear his name. He used to come to Redlands,Bisbee, (early stuff) always prepared now he is just wasting time, he should get a rep job and sell pedals or seats before one of his binges takes what little marketability he has left. Rock does 90% domestic which equals lots of crits,he should hang it up. He and Ball will make a sweet team

 

[BroDeal]

I heard from people that he had to be driven home from the bar that night by another team's van.

That is the story right there. FLandis' performance last year cannot be given much weight because he was in not in shape, physically or mentally. Hopefully he get his sh!t together this year and actually races.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Landis' story about downing a lot of whiskey after stage 16 might not have been total bull. It would not surprise me if he got drunk and made a mistake with his doping that night that led to him getting popped the next day.

 

[Hugh Januss]

That is the story right there. FLandis' performance last year cannot be given much weight because he was in not in shape, physically or mentally. Hopefully he get his sh!t together this year and actually races.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Landis' story about downing a lot of whiskey after stage 16 might not have been total bull. It would not surprise me if he got drunk and made a mistake with his doping that night that led to him getting popped the next day.

Like passed out with a patch in place, I kinda thought something like that.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That sounds absurd. But considering everything that's already happened, it also sounds plausible.

I have NO direct evidence or key witness to this, but I heard the same problems about him when he raced in Oregon earlier this year. Distant as a person, rode with lethargy like he was hungover most days. His entourage, or what was left of it, telling people Floyd wasn't feeling great, worried about coming down with a cold, etc.

The guy completely f*d up, big time. But he has also paid for it big time. He needs to get his sh!t together and remember why he wanted to ride a bike in the first place.

 

[BroDeal]

That sounds absurd. But considering everything that's already happened, it also sounds plausible.

I have NO direct evidence or key witness to this, but I heard the same problems about him when he raced in Oregon earlier this year. Distant as a person, rode with lethargy like he was hungover most days. His entourage, or what was left of it, telling people Floyd wasn't feeling great, worried about coming down with a cold, etc.

The guy completely f*d up, big time. But he has also paid for it big time. He needs to get his sh!t together and remember why he wanted to ride a bike in the first place.

He may very well have had a drinking problem to some degree before winning the Tour and the post-2006 events caused it to spiral out of control. As funny as FLandis trading a yellow jersey for a beer on his way down Alpe d'Huez is, it makes you wonder whether that was a sign of lack of focus or evidence of a larger problem.

 

[Oldman]

He may very well have had a drinking problem to some degree before winning the Tour and the post-2006 events caused it to spiral out of control. As funny as FLandis trading a yellow jersey for a beer on his way down Alpe d'Huez is, it makes you wonder whether that was a sign of lack of focus or evidence of a larger problem.

He trained and did whatever the thought he needed to do. Lost the Tour on Stage 16 and miraculously regained it the next day. Then LOST IT ALL. I'd want a drink, too. It sounds like the handlers lost faith along with him and he'll need start over, again. Before he started moving up in the ranks he proved he had the natural ability within his own teams, Nutra-Fig & Mercury to outpower the best. He didn't display the outright mercenary tendencies back then to succeed in a Carmichael/Armstrong dominated scene and probably wasn't prepared for the political pressures that would come from challenging that status quo. Tough story having met him early on.

 

[Boeing]

for what it is worth I will share my thoughts because i just finished this book. no fact here just a rider and observer. I might be off base and I am sure there are a few of you who will point it out as they typically do to a lot of posts so let me say now I suck it.....I know thanks in advance

I am no technical expert with regards to doping schedules and the regiments and products used. I am a fan and a rider just over 45 now and trying to compete in a masters group. I find the masters to be more work than anticipated years ago perhaps looking forward to being a fit and fast old guy back then because of the number of ex pros.

All sorts of ex pros road and mtn guys who never stopped training among other things. I have discovered there are advantages to sitting in for the pull before I drop off the back on group rides besides my lack of fitness to pull at the front...one of them in training in the tendency for dude to talk about war stories and the good old days etc.

A lot of what is posted here by many of you more informed people fits the bill is all I will point out. Quite accurate really...

I will say that there are guys I ride with who openly talk about their now "prescribed" use of Testosterone. Many of them find Doc's who prescribe testosterone on a non symptomatic basis; based on the generalization that testosterone helps with the effects of male aging etc. They use it for training however. I know guys who can afford to purchase HGH as well and do. We are talking about married with kids and a mortgage guys who used to be pros and your everyday ex cat 1 fit guy keeping up...just to get over on the Sunday group.????

I recently found Positively False on the stand of a 99 cent book table at the local. I bought it for the buck.

To get to a my point let me say that reading FL's book and my experience stated above, i feel there is a culture in our sport that breeds cheating and denial and it has been in the sport forever only the technology has changed. That is not news of course but news to me is that it appears to be constant

Floyd in particular I feel is a victim of this culture. I am not suggesting that he is innocent and I never bought the book prior and have been his biggest critic. I feel the book proves he is a liar. I feel he needs to take responsibility and become accountable in short.

his book it is a good read as mentioned in the beginning. It is clear that he is a good old boy who loved to ride and discovered he was good at it. As he describes his Tour year in the little detail he does I got the impression he was describing it exactly as he thought it might be every time he put his head down in training to bit the pain all the years prior. Like a kid throwing a no hitter in the world series in his back yard. I found it a bit odd like describing a dream. maybe the next time he describes it it would be different...

Someone mentioned that Floyd is a simple guy. I think that is accurate and that is ok. The problem though is He is a guy perhaps who does not have the intellectual sophistication and attention to detail required to master such a schedule. But he is and was caught in an environment that endorsed it and he chose to partake not understanding the detail and attention required to mask it and caught.....

The underlying theme of the book is a "why me" denial IMHO

My first reaction to the latter chapters was "Damn here is a guy who clearly didnt want to, or couldn't, distinguish Testosterone, HGH, EPO and the like from Gatorade, YooHoo and Cytomax." Because perhaps everyone is doing it but also because the system cant distinguish between them either.

I am no psychologist but early in the book Floyd takes a few indirect shots at Lance and JB. Right away I felt this was an indication that he feels that if they got away with it why cant I. Or he was never in the elite club....and bitter.


I enjoyed the book because it surprisingly took me in a direction I did not think it would. It reads like a classic addict dependent story...Like he was telling his story with out his sponsor at his side....(not that I know these things)

The denial is a symptom also to classic addiction. Perhaps he does have a drinking problem. Perhaps the pressure to compete led to the drink as well and the pressure of the post positive was worse.


I just hope FL is on his bike now for the right reasons. Not because aids the denial....

 

[bianchigirl]

As someone who has worked with young people who have been abused, the treatment of Lemond that he condoned/encouraged was an absolute disgrace and his subsequent 'poor me' victimised whingeing is indefensible. He may well have a problem with alcohol (and the idea of him passing out with a patch on makes as much sense as any of his many excuses) but that doesn't excuse inexcusable behaviour.

 

[sars1981]

Landis and hackers

In its edition dated Friday, The World echoes of conflict of Floyd Landis with the French justice. The American rider was stripped of his victory in the Tour de France 2006 due to testing positive for testosterone. In his defense, Landis had put forward any evidence resulting from a hacking laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry. Convened last May 5 by the Central Directorate of Judicial Police, Landis and his coach Arnie Baker did not attend.

Investigators from the Central Office of the fight against technology crime revealed that the IP address of the sender of the counterfeit documents was none other than Baker. The setbacks of the former Phonak rider annoys the utmost Pierre Bordry, president of the French Agency for the fight against doping (AFLD): "If this is the only way Floyd Landis and Arnie Baker explained, I will not hesitate to ask the judge to use the international arrest warrant" he said in Le Monde.

L'Equipe translation.

What a dumbass...so what happened here..a hacker was hired to get a password into the system and then this fool decided to log in and make alterations to the records from his own ip? This is just weird..im sure as hell that whoever hacked into that system wasn't the idiot who didnt even use a proxy when making changes.

 

[BroDeal]

What a dumbass...so what happened here..a hacker was hired to get a password into the system and then this fool decided to log in and make alterations to the records from his own ip? This is just weird..im sure as hell that whoever hacked into that system wasn't the idiot who didnt even use a proxy when making changes.

I think the hacker obtained the docs and Baker sent them to the media. The French authorities identified his IP as the source of the documents, not as an address that accessed LNDD's systems. Still stupid, but a smidgen less stupid than you are making it out to be.

 

[sars1981]

I think the hacker obtained the docs and Baker sent them to the media. The French authorities identified his IP as the source of the documents, not as an address that accessed LNDD's systems. Still stupid, but a smidgen less stupid than you are making it out to be.

Ahh ok. If that is the case that is certainly less stupid but still stupid. I wonder what he did..registered "floydsinnocent@hotmail.com" and sent PDF's from his home computer? Should have went to an internet cafe.

 

[poupou]

The dumbass attitude was to reveal that he was the sender when the LNDD hack was known. At that moment Arnie Baker was knowing he used stolen documents, some of them were clear counterfeit who did he, the hacker or the sender (Arnie's IP adress)?

As the hacker confessed, he got specific order to seek for Landis' case.

 

[Race Radio]

The dumbass attitude was to reveal that he was the sender when the LNDD hack was known. At that moment Arnie Baker was knowing he used stolen documents, some of them were clear counterfeit who did he, the hacker or the sender (Arnie's IP adress)?

As the hacker confessed, he got specific order to seek for Landis' case.

The *** even tried to use the hacked and modified documents in the court case, complete with spelling and grammatical errors as shockingly Arnie is not a native French speaker. Of course when presented with the emails at trial the people who supposedly "Wrote" the hacked emails said " I never wrote that"

 

[rolfrae]

What now for Landis? Time to write that book about what really happened?

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2722/Rock-Racing-refused-license-Landis-deal-looks-to-be-off.aspx

 

[Kennf1]

What now for Landis? Time to write that book about what really happened?

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2722/Rock-Racing-refused-license-Landis-deal-looks-to-be-off.aspx

I'd say he's burned his bridge with OUCH. Maybe there's a spot on Bissel?

 

[Big GMaC]

I'd say he's burned his bridge with OUCH. Maybe there's a spot on Bissel?

well, zibel's pending suspension leaves a gap...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He may find himself sinking further and further down the pro ladder, eventually ending up on a tiny team, or no team at all.

Good post Boeing. Some comments:

I will say that there are guys I ride with who openly talk about their now "prescribed" use of Testosterone.

I know of no one who does this, but have heard many times second hand on how easy it is to get it prescribed if you're over about 40. Tell the doc you zero sex drive, none. As there is not a standard for T, numbers are more subjective, making a test to see if you need it almost pointless. Also getting referred to an anti-aging doctor isn't that hard either. Then it's a matter of finding one that prescribes HGH, etc. liberally, and... well, you get the picture.

I think for a lot of these people it's a matter of ego. They were near the top once, and need to stay there. Be that as an investment manager, as an attorney, as a 29 year old Cat 1, or as a 45 year old ex-racer riding in club rides.

I believe I'm the one who said I heard from someone who met him that Floyd was simple, not stupid, just simple. And I saw the same thing in the book you did. Not that this excuses anything he did, but as I said, you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy. One of the things Werner Franke said about Jan Ullrich was that Jan had such an innocent, simple mindset that he wouldn't have known EPO from HGH and that's why Franke wanted (wants) Jan to finger those who "poisoned" him, and has tried suing him as such. It seems to me almost that Floyd has known only a couple things in his life: growing up in a Mennonite farming community, and racing a bike.

What now for Landis? Time to write that book about what really happened?]

One can hope. I really do think at one point either Floyd or Tyler is going to crack and feel the need to spill their guts to the world in order to relieve the burden they carry. It just might take a few years.

 

[ProfTournesol]

yeah, I knew they tried to buy it this year. Madame Amaury said non. I did not know this was the second bid tho. I spoke to the guy who wrote on it at WSJ, and had a source in Cannes with details.

I knew Velonews were sitting on this story about Rasmussen tho.

why do you think suddenly the ASO is pro-Lance and has backed off on anti-doping? The hostile takeover bid cannot have been coincidental to Lance re-entering the Tour.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Don't forget that the anti-doping Patrice Clerc was fired (along with a few others) by the ASO just before the "sudden change". Source.