Landis to Rock

[hektoren]

I think general whistle blower haters. JP is just their latest target.

As one of the obvious JP-denigrators in question, with between 70-100 posts on this forum, I suppose I fall into the group you and "definitely-Dim" refer to.
However, JP is not a pet object of hatred for me. I've merely uttered that you should try to read his statements through a filter other than the rose-tinted spectacles some people evidently don as a reflex, seeing his name.

 

[hektoren]

You are a poor scientist, Dr. Hektoren.

Well, that's an interesting postulate. However, you seem to be extremely short on evidence. Elaborate, please!

 

[mitchman]

I'd like to see Landis light it up with Rock Racing.........

and on the sub-topic....I don't like rat's so I don't think I'd like JP if I knew him.

 

[flicker]

Oh Papp smear is important!

 

[Anonymous]

I've merely uttered that you should try to read his statements through a filter other than the rose-tinted spectacles some people evidently don as a reflex, seeing his name.

I think what it is is i have the ability to seperate joe the cycling, joe the blogger, and joe the forum member whos taken a lot of crap over the last ten days from several people, and all the crap seemed to start at once..

Its interesting that because of joe's past, or whatever that this seems ok, if it was another forum member getting lambasted left right and centre the reaction would be very different.

As for landis.. the guys a snivveling whine and ive got no time for the bloke.. but he does make good tv..

 

[Anonymous]

I don't have any problem at all admitting when I'm wrong. In fact, as a scientist, I'm conditioned to enjoy the fact that my theories are proven wrong, my points to be moot, my life, acquaintances, allegiances etc. to be open for close scrutiny. That's the way science is advanced! Science asks a lot of questions, and we're not sure we can find an answer. Religion has a lot of answers you can't question. Seems to me that Joe Papp is an apostle to you.

If you read what I've written closely, you'll find that I've made a wish; that we'd get a full disclosure from within the peloton from a guy who doesn't necessarily need to make a living from his disclosures. That's all, really.

Joe has told us a lot. I agree. Completely. I follow his blog, I'm familiar with his palmares, extracurricular activities, genealogy etc. I'm not anti-Joe. I'm grateful for his revealing insights etc. etc. BUT: I'd be a fool, and forget my scientist training if I were to read Joe's comments as the gospel truth. In that sense I'd prefer the revelations from someone on the inside, having no financial gain from their testimonies. Too tough to understand for you?

That is fair enough. Sorry if I seemed a bit overboard, but recently, Joe has been attacked here by a couple of people who appear to have a personal agenda. I am not Joe, and not Joe's big brother, but I do believe that defending someone who was willing to open up the door to the dirty room is warranted.

As I said, the peloton is FULL of cheating liars who are on some doping product, and likely several at this very second. I just don't think hammering the guy who can shed insight is a positive thing in any way. He paid his price.

I am with Dim on Landis. Guy makes me want to vomit...but I hope he is writing a book that will change my opinion.

 

[Ferminal]

Joe Papp is a forum member and a very decent contributor at that.

What he says on his blog is irrelevant (I don't read it), if you have a problem with his blog go and take it up with him privately.

He's never made any accusations or major polarising comments in his 100 or so posts here. Why attack Joe when other posters make far more inflammatory and unsubstantiated accusations?

So please, the CN Forums are not the place to come and attack Joe Papp the forum contributor. If 6 guys came out of nowhere and started making aggressive posts about TFF/dimspace then the forum base would be equally annoyed.

 

[fatandfast]

Ferm I like that

 

[mitchman]

If the peloton is FULL of cheating liars and that liar gets pinched....then starts talking.....What has that person done to make you think their still not a liar.....In my book nothing.

Most likely there still making up stories....Once a liar, always a liar.

 

[Runitout]

If the peloton is FULL of cheating liars and that liar gets pinched....then starts talking.....What has that person done to make you think their [sic] still not a liar.....In my book nothing.

Most likely there [sic] still making up stories....Once a liar, always a liar.

Very convenient attitude. Do you also doubt Manzano and Kimmage and Jaschke and all of the others? Which confessions do you believe, and what did it take for you to believe them? Did you believe Coppi when he confessed?

Riis was not pinched. Do you believe him? Ullrich has not been piched. Do you believe him? Pantani never tested positive. Did you believe him?

I saw a trial once. The judge said that when a person makes a confession against their own interest, that confession is evidence of the truth of what he said. In contrast, a self-serving statement should be ignored.

That's how it should be.

 

[Big GMaC]

Berzin it is quite refreshing to meet a person of such high moral character as yourself. I am sure that if you left the moral high ground you might understand that some cheat and are in denial. It seems many PRO athletes whom we follow practice those traits.

Have you read his opinions on the thread about amateur doping? They didn't strike me as the opinions of someone with 'high moral character'...

edit: wait were you being sarcastic?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Have you read his opinions on the thread about amateur doping? They didn't strike me as the opinions of someone with 'high moral character'...

No certain, but I think our Flicker was taking a shot at sarcasm.

 

[Big GMaC]

You are a poor scientist, Dr. Hektoren.

FIXED

I think this is the image you were looking for Bro.

Is it?

Yes. It is Edward Coyle.

 

[BroDeal]

I think this is the image you were looking for Bro.

Is it?

Yes. It is Edward Coyle.

Comparing someone to Dr. Venkman is one thing; but comparing them to Coyls, that's a low blow.

 

[53 x 11]

Oh Papp smear is important!

Only funny thing you have ever said. Well done, you're getting better

 

[flicker]

I'd like to see Landis light it up with Rock Racing.........

and on the sub-topic....I don't like rat's so I don't think I'd like JP if I knew him.

You talkin bout a crack pipe?

 

[Anonymous]

If the peloton is FULL of cheating liars and that liar gets pinched....then starts talking.....What has that person done to make you think their still not a liar.....In my book nothing.

Most likely there still making up stories....Once a liar, always a liar.

Its like a douche explosion in here the past two weeks. Once an a$$hole, always an a$$hole there bitc...I mean mitch.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to see Landis light it up with Rock Racing.........

and on the sub-topic....I don't like rat's so I don't think I'd like JP if I knew him.

You want to see Landis the lying sack of monkey vomit do well, but Joe is a problem. You are the king of douches. Your scepter sir....

 

[Mellow Velo]

If the peloton is FULL of cheating liars and that liar gets pinched....
Most likely there still making up stories....Once a liar, always a liar.

and on the sub-topic....I don't like rat's

I'd like to see Landis light it up with Rock Racing.........

There you go Dim. The mental machinations of the average, wrapped in the flag, fanboy.

They talk of cheating liars, but it's OK for cheating liars to lie about the cheating.
Cheating liars who continue to cheat and lie are great and worthy of fanship.

Ex-cheats who try to tell the truth are rats, but are probably ratting untruthfully, because they used to be cheating liars.
Cheating liars who change are rats and worthy of hate.

Go figure.

 

[progressor]

If 6 guys came out of nowhere and started making aggressive posts about TFF/... then the forum base would be equally annoyed.

LOL.They'd have to do it in their very first post to be the first to fire LOL.Pickany other poster for your example Please!!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If a rider on PED's, not yet caught in the flimsy WADA/CONI/AFLD-net, would step forward and denounce his actions, beforehand, break the omertà and really spill the beans, I'd be impressed and laud his actions. I'd probably lap up anything he'd say.
If, however, a rider use PED's for 10yrs plus, gets caught big-time and finds himself suddenly out-of-work, knowing f***-all about anything else than anything cycling-related, suddenly finds a new market and a career as a newborn anti-doping-and-widely-read cycling author, writing extensively about his experiences in the professional peloton, gaining new employment as a diarist for cyclingnews.com, writing training advice columns, product reviews and route guides as well as appearing in print in publications like VeloNews, Ride Magazine, Bike Culture and Cycling Times, then, I'm kinda underwhelmed.

Now, if this means that i've got an IQ of 37, then so be it. You'd be wrong making such an assumption though. It's about ethics, and even the dumbest low-life crook has a sense of morality, a code of conduct or a set of beliefs distinguishing between right and wrong.

Firstly - with respect "Hektoren", I took it from your above piece too that you were talking about JPs "current" entreprises.

I wrote on this subject just last week - what Joe did was wrong, and it is another nail and another blow to this great sport.
But he served his time - and offered the USADA more evidence about his own doping then he needed to. He also agreed to help explain how doping works within the peloton.

Joe writes a blog - he was doing that long before he was caught, obviously he enjoys it and he is pretty good at it.

 

[Anonymous]

There you go Dim. The mental machinations of the average, wrapped in the flag, fanboy.

They talk of cheating liars, but it's OK for cheating liars to lie about the cheating.
Cheating liars who continue to cheat and lie are great and worthy of fanship.

Ex-cheats who try to tell the truth are rats, but are probably ratting untruthfully, because they used to be cheating liars.
Cheating liars who change are rats and worthy of hate.

Go figure.

I think maybe 37 was being generous...

 

[Anonymous]

LOL.They'd have to do it in their very first post to be the first to fire LOL.Pickany other poster for your example Please!!

They didn't teach writing at your elementary school, did they?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Everybody take a deep breath and calm down please. Return to the topic and cool it with the personal comments.

Susan

 

[Anonymous]

There you go Dim. The mental machinations of the average, wrapped in the flag, fanboy.

They talk of cheating liars, but it's OK for cheating liars to lie about the cheating.
Cheating liars who continue to cheat and lie are great and worthy of fanship.

Ex-cheats who try to tell the truth are rats, but are probably ratting untruthfully, because they used to be cheating liars.
Cheating liars who change are rats and worthy of hate.

Go figure.

Amazing how some justify their positions. Brilliant post.