Lanky Poels? What do we know about him?

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Jul 9, 2012
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The Hitch said:
bigcog said:
Poels has good pedigree before joining Sky. He has shown good recent form and decent results in the past. Today was more a war of attrition than usual so why is the result so surprising.
Only Cobo was doping in that 2011 Vuelta, amiright?

Evil Cobo denying clean brits the first ever Brit 1-2 in a GT. Everyone else was clean, especially anyone who ended up at Sky because Brailsford has this ZTP that means no one who ever touched drugs will ever be employed by the team

Boy you read a lot into that post. Are you on a creative writing course or something ? :D Has Poels changed his nationality to British now ?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thehog said:
The Hitch said:
bigcog said:
Poels has good pedigree before joining Sky. He has shown good recent form and decent results in the past. Today was more a war of attrition than usual so why is the result so surprising.
Only Cobo was doping in that 2011 Vuelta, amiright?

Evil Cobo denying clean brits the first ever Brit 1-2 in a GT. Everyone else was clean, especially anyone who ended up at Sky because Brailsford has this ZTP that means no one who ever touched drugs will ever be employed by the team

Holland is known for its mountains so no surprise Poels can climb :cool:
quoted for truth.
plus he has the typical classical climbers physique ideal for short steep climbs. Doping would not benefit him much.
 
Dec 6, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
WillemS said:
Benotti69 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Come on hog, you watched the 2011 Vuelta, because it's where the Chris Froome show began. Poels beat him on Angliru :)

and what has Poels done since?



Di Luca winner 2007 in 6h37 mn, Poels 6h24 mn. Toady's weather was appalling to ride in but Poels did it faster than Di Luca super juicer.
...But was it the exact same route? Grapes and grapefruit aren't the same.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
World class? Really where are the world class wins then?

Di Luca winner 2007 in 6h37 mn, Poels 6h24 mn. Toady's weather was appalling to ride in but Poels did it faster than Di Luca super juicer.

You do realise todays race was 18km shorter?

So your comparison makes no sense. But why am I even replying. You never go into good counter arguments anyway so I'm just wasting time
 
May 26, 2010
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jmdirt said:
Benotti69 said:
WillemS said:
Benotti69 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Come on hog, you watched the 2011 Vuelta, because it's where the Chris Froome show began. Poels beat him on Angliru :)

and what has Poels done since?



Di Luca winner 2007 in 6h37 mn, Poels 6h24 mn. Toady's weather was appalling to ride in but Poels did it faster than Di Luca super juicer.
...But was it the exact same route? Grapes and grapefruit aren't the same.

Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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thehog said:
The Hitch said:
bigcog said:
Poels has good pedigree before joining Sky. He has shown good recent form and decent results in the past. Today was more a war of attrition than usual so why is the result so surprising.
Only Cobo was doping in that 2011 Vuelta, amiright?

Evil Cobo denying clean brits the first ever Brit 1-2 in a GT. Everyone else was clean, especially anyone who ended up at Sky because Brailsford has this ZTP that means no one who ever touched drugs will ever be employed by the team

Holland is known for its mountains so no surprise Poels can climb :cool:
Poels is actually from Limburg. You know, the only region where there are actually some serious hills, the region where the Amstel Gold Race is///
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.

Again, todays race was shorter, also because of the snow. 262 km in 2007 versus 248km in 2016

So, really, you should reconsider this as an argument or continue making a fool out of yourself
 
Jun 10, 2010
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Hey, did you see that new cobbled hill they used today for the first time? Apparently it's been there since the last route change in 1992.
 
May 26, 2010
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hrotha said:
Hey, did you see that new cobbled hill they used today for the first time? Apparently it's been there since the last route change in 1992.

extra cobbled climb and still Poels went faster than Di Luca.

Today's stage was 5 km shorter, if i read it correctly
 
Aug 19, 2011
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Benotti69 said:
Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.

Again, todays race was shorter, also because of the snow. 262 km in 2007 versus 248km in 2016

So, really, you should reconsider this as an argument or continue making a fool out of yourself

it's wasted time.
if they say Poels is faster than Di Luca there's nothing will make change their mind :rolleyes:
the course length is not important ;)
 
Dec 6, 2013
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Beno: "Di Luca winner 2007 in 6h37 mn, Poels 6h24 mn. Toady's weather was appalling to ride in but Poels did it faster than Di Luca super juicer."

jmdirt:..."But was it the exact same route? Grapes and grapefruit aren't the same."

Beno: "Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same."

jmdirt: "That is hilarious! Don't worry about the reduction due to snow reroute, or the new climb...its been the same since 1842. :rolleyes:

I sure messed up the reply format...
 
May 26, 2010
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pastronef said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Benotti69 said:
Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.

Again, todays race was shorter, also because of the snow. 262 km in 2007 versus 248km in 2016

So, really, you should reconsider this as an argument or continue making a fool out of yourself

it's wasted time.
if they say Poels is faster than Di Luca there's nothing will make change their mind :rolleyes:
the course length is not important ;)

Poels had a tailwind. :rolleyes:

Stop trolling.

the route is much the same since 1992. A cobbled climb at the end of today's stage made it harder, the weather made it harder and the distance was only 5km shorter and yet Poels time was fast.

It is alright for JV to claim times are slower so everything is cleaner!
 
May 26, 2010
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jmdirt said:
That is hilarious! Don't worry about the reduction due to snow reroute, or the new climb...its been the same since 1842. :roll eyes:

So glad you believe in team sky. Good for you, you must look well in your sky gear, hope you have a yellow wrist band too :D
 
Dec 6, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
jmdirt said:
That is hilarious! Don't worry about the reduction due to snow reroute, or the new climb...its been the same since 1842. :roll eyes:

So glad you believe in team sky. Good for you, you must look well in your sky gear, hope you have a yellow wrist band too :D
I don't believe in team sky anymore than I believe in any team, and I'm not a posure who wears kits from pro teams...but you can keep wearing your MAPEI kit! :eek:

EDIT:
 
Mar 13, 2009
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If anyone has a solid counter argument like saying the race is 15km shorter. And FACTS that the route changed (roche aux faucons is a new edition, as is the cobbled climb), + road works in the stockeu/haute-levee part... It doesn't botter Benotti, he'll just straight up ignore it and continue his rant.
 
Mar 11, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
jmdirt said:
That is hilarious! Don't worry about the reduction due to snow reroute, or the new climb...its been the same since 1842. :roll eyes:

So glad you believe in team sky. Good for you, you must look well in your sky gear, hope you have a yellow wrist band too :D

Ahem. Stockeu out also. I've ridden it. It's quite steep. Regardless, comparing race time is completely without merit when considering individuals because ITS NOT A TIME TRIAL.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/02/news/new-cobbled-climb-may-shake-up-liege-finale_396362
 
Aug 19, 2011
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Benotti69 said:
pastronef said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Benotti69 said:
Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.

Again, todays race was shorter, also because of the snow. 262 km in 2007 versus 248km in 2016

So, really, you should reconsider this as an argument or continue making a fool out of yourself

it's wasted time.
if they say Poels is faster than Di Luca there's nothing will make change their mind :rolleyes:
the course length is not important ;)

Poels had a tailwind. :rolleyes:

Stop trolling.

the route is much the same since 1992. A cobbled climb at the end of today's stage made it harder, the weather made it harder and the distance was only 5km shorter and yet Poels time was fast.

It is alright for JV to claim times are slower so everything is cleaner!

the route was 14 km shorter than 2007: 262 vs 248 (instead of 253)

the average was 38 kmh. we've seen a few 40 kmh average. 38 kmh is an usual LBL average speed.
ah, and also no Stockeu as in previous post

I wonder if people would be discussing length and average speed and racing time if Alba or Costa won.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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Shall we break this down to its core, to avoid the mudslinging? Much like happened with Kiryienka, some people want to discredit a guy's former palmarès in order to manufacture a performance jump at Team Sky. Poels already had reasons to suspect him before Team Sky, and Team Sky's many shifting stories, dubious connections and rider performances make them in and of themselves a reason to suspect somebody who rides for them. It's not necessarily cut and dried (occasional exceptions can be found) but if somebody says they find Poels suspicious because he rides for Team Sky and they don't trust that team at all, that's not a problem in and of itself.

However, it is disingenuous to say that because he had no results in the Monuments that Poels winning a Monument as a surprise outsider is automatically a reason to say he's doping - plenty of people have won Monuments unexpectedly. In recent years we've had a rider take a monument as their first career win for goodness' sakes. Team Sky have never really shown a great aptitude for Classics tactics, because their tactics have tended to be based on a variant of their stage racing tactic (have strongest rider in race -> have strongest domestiques in race -> ride on front until everyone drops) which is harder to operate in a one-day race. It's no coincidence that Ian Stannard is probably their most successful one-day rider before today, a guy who has a very good tactical head on his shoulders and rides well when isolated.

Poels may not have a great one-day record but he's not a total schmuck either. He has good results in hilly stages of races like Tirreno-Adriatico and the Vuelta over several years. There's stages like this that are up and down all day - the same pre-Vuelta medium mountain stage where Chris Froome lost eight minutes - and this shows ability in a punchy finish against top names. This is Poels doing well in the GC of a stage race through the same kind of terrain, and this is Poels beating the likes of Valverde and Samu on a medium-sized mountaintop finish in a prestigious stage race.

Those are all before he went to Sky.

Now, is he a left-field winner of Liège-Bastogne-Liège? Sure. Is he as remarkable a winner as Maxim Iglinsky was? Maybe, maybe not. Iglinsky's previous Classics results had been mainly at races more like de Ronde, but he'd been the last man left with Contador at the 2008 Giro in the mountains on a few occasions. Is he a guy that we should be asking questions of? Well, he came from Vacansoleil, the team whose contracts catch more dopers than WADA, and he rides for a team who are, like it or not, at the forefront of doping discussion for a variety of reasons. Of course his results in the Ardennes are significantly better than before this season (although his results in Flèche had been improving year on year for a while, he'd never made a reasonable mark on LBL), but looking back at some of the stages he's performed well on in the past, that isn't necessarily because he lacked the necessary physical tools to compete in LBL because it would seem he had them; 2nd only to somebody who won LBL in that Pologne stage, 2nd only to a 2x Lombardia winner on a steep hilltop finish in that Vuelta stage, 1st ahead of a 3x Liège winner and a guy he was sprinting against today in a País Vasco stage. Clearly he lacked some racing brain, or just hadn't had the legs on the right day before. It's hard to believe that the tactical demagogues at Team Sky will have resolved the first issue, but you never know.

We also know that today's race was 9km shorter than the 2007 edition before the start, and was shortened further mid-race by an additional 5km, so making a direct comparison in race time is impossible (if you want to make the exact comparison, Poels won in a time ten minutes slower than Valverde last year. Turns out the weather was a factor. Same as why Heras' Angliru ascent in 2002 is slower than other years, strangely enough).

If you want to doubt him, that's fair enough. There are plenty of fair reasons to do so, without the need to fabricate or falsify to create additional ones.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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pastronef said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Benotti69 said:
Last route change was 1992 and apart from weather or road works remains the same.

Again, todays race was shorter, also because of the snow. 262 km in 2007 versus 248km in 2016

So, really, you should reconsider this as an argument or continue making a fool out of yourself

it's wasted time.
if they say Poels is faster than Di Luca there's nothing will make change their mind :rolleyes:
the course length is not important ;)

Who is "they"?
 
Oct 26, 2010
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The most suspicious thing about Sky is what they do with "talents" like Froome, Wiggins, Porte or track-specialist-cobbled-classics-GT-contender-huge-engine-always-good-time-trialist Geraint Thomas. They throw a lot of money around to build a team filled with talent around those.

Poels in particularly is a hilly racer in the making this wasn't out of the blue in any way. He just too inconsistent for GC's and so he flies a bit under the radar.

Tactically, Sky is for me the best team overall in the classics this year: great attitude since San Remo, Kwiat in E3 and Flanders and the fall out boys in Roubaix, really well ridden from them.
 
Jul 3, 2009
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Yep, what LS said, all that plus perhaps the most monumental performance of all:

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19872
http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2011/tirreno-adriatico/ta-st5-prof.PNG

The conditions were pretty atrocious too.

Sure that doesn't make him an L-B-L winner but 2011 Poels was ideally suited to the sort of race which unfolded yesterday. It was a bit of a strange race (even for a shitty Ardennes) and no one could have picked the top5. Whether it was the conditions or the slippery cobbles who knows. It's a mature performance, maybe a bit of a step up but nothing outrageous.

Yes he did have a couple of years in the wilderness, probably due both to his serious crash and moving teams.

I guess this is the problem with letting the ridiculous 2011/2012 performances of Poels, De Gendt and Westra (plus a few less notable VCD ones) slide at the time.
 
Jun 10, 2013
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
hrotha said:
Hey, did you see that new cobbled hill they used today for the first time? Apparently it's been there since the last route change in 1992.

extra cobbled climb and still Poels went faster than Di Luca.

Today's stage was 5 km shorter, if i read it correctly

At least three people have told (proved) you this is not the case, why are you ignoring them? Heck, I did so in the first page and you even quoted me...

Benotti69 said:
BigMac said:
Nevermind that the 2007 route was longer to begin with and that today's was shortened on top of it. Also, this isn't a time trial - have you considered that it may have been caused by a higher tempo in the peloton? Comparing race times is not like comparing times up a particular climb.

Well JV and Walsh told us that everything had changed because speeds were down!

2007: 262km's

2016: 248km's with shortenings.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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trevim said:
The most suspicious thing about Sky is what they do with "talents" like Froome, Wiggins, Porte or track-specialist-cobbled-classics-GT-contender-huge-engine-always-good-time-trialist Geraint Thomas. They throw a lot of money around to build a team filled with talent around those.

Poels in particularly is a hilly racer in the making this wasn't out of the blue in any way. He just too inconsistent for GC's and so he flies a bit under the radar.

Tactically, Sky is for me the best team overall in the classics this year: great attitude since San Remo, Kwiat in E3 and Flanders and the fall out boys in Roubaix, really well ridden from them.

Statistically speaking, Sky is the best spring monument team of 2016, with TOP5 in all four events, moreover done by four different riders (having other capable riders like Kwiato/Thomas still in the reserve): MSR 2. Swift, RVV 5. Rowe, PR 3. Stannard, LBL 1. Poels
 
May 21, 2010
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well if you played Pro Cycling Manager 2015 you would know how good Poels is...and in my save he rides for Lotto