Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

[fmk_RoI]

A full IC ban and 15 days time out to cover OOC use is a start, but many riders are OOC for far more than 15 days at a time, so the OOC abuse - the real problem - would not actually be challenged.

 

[Robert5091]

Lappartient seems to have already a "fall back" position in regards to his campaign promises.

 

[sniper]

Corticosteroids do of course have an honest therapeutic use.e.g. for intraarticular injection. So not a straightforward issue.
As fmk says, it's a good start.
Its too easy to abuse the TUEs. Once you have one you can basically inject at will because the dosis and frequency approved by the TUE cannot be validated through testing.

Is it known why only from 2019 onwards?

 

[Robert5091]

Re:

Corticosteroids do of course have an honest therapeutic use.e.g. for intraarticular injection. So not a straightforward issue.
As fmk says, it's a good start.
Its too easy to abuse the TUEs. Once you have one you can basically inject at will because the dosis and frequency approved by the TUE cannot be validated through testing.

Is it known why only from 2019 onwards?

So the lawyers can go through the details, maybe. Bit late for 2018.

 

[fmk_RoI]

What Lappartient really thinks of the spectre haunting cycling - techno fraud:

We need to avoid any suspicion that we have it in our sport. It’s really bad for our image, and people are asking ‘are they using this technology or not?’ I want us to be sure, and I want people to trust the credibility of the UCI and I want people to know that we’re doing our best and checking in the most professional way. I want people to trust in the results of racing. This is what we have to deliver.

New plans due in December:

I said during my campaign that it was a major point for the UCI and today Mr Prudhomme, organiser of the Tour de France, asked the UCI to work on this, and the credibility as we strive against technological fraud. As I said, we’ll be ready for the next season and during the winter we’ll make some announcement on this, probably at the beginning of December.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

The promise:

This next one looks easy but has the potential to be problematic:

IMPROVE THE ATTRACTIVENESS OF RACES

The issue?

It is clear however that some races, particularly those with multiple stages, have become tedious, which is leading to a decrease in fan interest and fewer television viewers. The misuse of certain new technologies may have had an impact on this issue by making the outcome of some of our races too predictable.

Let me hear you say it: ban race radios! Ban power metres! Or as he puts it:

ENCOURAGE INNOVATION AND THE USE OF MORE CONDUCIVE NEW TECHNOLOGIES IN CYCLING

(Bring bank the blackboards!)

The delivery:

New UCI president David Lappartient is considering to limit the use of earpieces in the professional cycling peloton.

Earpieces have long been a topic of debate in cycling, with some supporting the use of technology while others believe that races would get more exciting when riders get less information from their team leaders.

If it's up to Lappartient, the discussion will meet its end during the Frenchman's reign at the helm of the UCI.

"I made clear that I wanted to prohibit the use of earpieces for the next World Championships," he said.

"Do the riders really need to receive that much information?" he continued to ask. "We can also send information to the bike computers or to the visors of their helmets."

A good example of a major event without earpieces was the road race of the 2016 Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, which ended in a victory for Greg Van Avermaet after a highly unpredictable race.

 

[King Boonen]

I would question the premise that the ORR is a good example, but I'm all for earpieces being for race radio only.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I would question the premise that the ORR is a good example, but I'm all for earpieces being for race radio only.

I'd be happy with riders being able to talk to each other, but not to the team car.

Want directions from the DS? Drop back and talk in person. Want to know who's in the break and how they're riding? Should have gotten someone in there, try asking another team that did.

The only thing that should be on the radio apart from the team's riders is the race director warning of hazards.

 

[fmk_RoI]

So Lappartient is going to use the bogeyman du jour of match fixing to push through his proposed ban on radios, but only at World Championships:

"And then you have something else with the earpieces, they make cycling very sensitive to online betting," Lappartient said to Het Laatste Nieuws. "You can communicate directly with the rider in the race. Officially, the connection goes from a team car to a rider. But technologically, there is nothing that prevents me or you from calling the wearer of the yellow jersey during a stage of the Tour, right? "

He continues:

"Sports betting is like an iceberg. Ninety percent of the bets are illegal and happen below the waterline. That's how it is in football, tennis and handball. I do not want to get to a day when cycling, once we have clambered from the valley of doping, and the fight against mechanical fraud has been successfully carried out, is undermined by corruption and gambling scandals. The UCI does not have a single article in its regulations. Gambling is prohibited is there. But it happens."

If you have a long memory - or just read up on this stuff - you may know that when Verbruggen took over he identified two bogeymen of the day: doping and the buying and selling of races:

In your view, has cycling become a clean sport?

This is the most important aspect. And, for me, a constant fight. Parents have to be able to tell their children: “Yes, you can go into cycling if you like.” As you know, cycling was confronted with two great scourges: fixing and doping. Fixing has disappeared. It is always possible for interests to coincide during a race, but that’s as far as it goes. And doping? It is a question of education. We are fighting it hard. We hunt it down among the young. It has greatly decreased. But to change attitudes will take years. It is a problem we shall never master completely, we realize that. Our motto is prevention and education.

 

[RedheadDane]

I'm seriously confused about this "hacking betters" thing.

If they tell the riders to do something that's beneficial for the team, chances are the riders are already doing it because it's beneficial for the team.
If they tell the riders to do something that's disadvantageous for the team, chances are the riders will simply reply; "No, actually. That sounds like a horrible plan. And who the *** are you anyway?"

Also, imagine this situation:
One of those sneaky betters manage to hack the Katusha-Alpecin radios during a flat stage during the Tour next year, and tells the riders that Kittel has to win! Que eight riders looking confusedly at each other; "Yeah... that's kinda the plan..."
Or, in the opposite; they tell the riders that Kittel has to avoid winning (since they've betted that someone else is gonna win), do you really think the riders would listen?

So, either they'll be telling riders something they already plan on doing: Winning, or at least placing as good as possible.
Or, they'll be telling riders to do something they have no intention of doing: Purposely placing lower than possible.

 

[wansteadimp]

Re:

I'm seriously confused about this "hacking betters" thing.

If they tell the riders to do something that's beneficial for the team, chances are the riders are already doing it because it's beneficial for the team.
If they tell the riders to do something that's disadvantageous for the team, chances are the riders will simply reply; "No, actually. That sounds like a horrible plan. And who the **** are you anyway?"

Also, imagine this situation:
One of those sneaky betters manage to hack the Katusha-Alpecin radios during a flat stage during the Tour next year, and tells the riders that Kittel has to win! Que eight riders looking confusedly at each other; "Yeah... that's kinda the plan..."
Or, in the opposite; they tell the riders that Kittel has to avoid winning (since they've betted that someone else is gonna win), do you really think the riders would listen?

So, either they'll be telling riders something they already plan on doing: Winning, or at least placing as good as possible.
Or, they'll be telling riders to do something they have no intention of doing: Purposely placing lower than possible.

Will be effective for compromised riders though - those being offered more cash from the betting syndicate than from their team or those with something to hide (imagine a cyclist with secrets!!) that could be blackmailed.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I'm seriously confused about this "hacking betters" thing.

If they tell the riders to do something that's beneficial for the team, chances are the riders are already doing it because it's beneficial for the team.
If they tell the riders to do something that's disadvantageous for the team, chances are the riders will simply reply; "No, actually. That sounds like a horrible plan. And who the **** are you anyway?"

Also, imagine this situation:
One of those sneaky betters manage to hack the Katusha-Alpecin radios during a flat stage during the Tour next year, and tells the riders that Kittel has to win! Que eight riders looking confusedly at each other; "Yeah... that's kinda the plan..."
Or, in the opposite; they tell the riders that Kittel has to avoid winning (since they've betted that someone else is gonna win), do you really think the riders would listen?

So, either they'll be telling riders something they already plan on doing: Winning, or at least placing as good as possible.
Or, they'll be telling riders to do something they have no intention of doing: Purposely placing lower than possible.

You seem to have a rather 'traditional' view of betting and don't seem to be getting what is actually being said. Have you been following any of the wider match-fixing debate across all Olympic Sports?

 

[RedheadDane]

In what situation could match-fixers be telling the riders on a bike team something other than what they...

A: Are already planning on doing. (Winning, or at least doing their damnest to try.)
B: Have no intention in doing. (Purposely finishing worse than possible.)

?

In some sports it might be beneficial for a team to lose/play to a draw in the group-stage of big tournament, so that they could be paired with weaker teams once the play-off part starts.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

In what situation could match-fixers be telling the riders on a bike team something other than what they...

A: Are already planning on doing. (Winning, or at least doing their damnest to try.)
B: Have no intention in doing. (Purposely finishing worse than possible.)

?

In some sports it might be beneficial for a team to lose/play to a draw in the group-stage of big tournament, so that they could be paired with weaker teams once the play-off part starts.

As I said, you do seem to have a rather 'traditional' take on sports betting...

 

[wansteadimp]

Re:

In what situation could match-fixers be telling the riders on a bike team something other than what they...

A: Are already planning on doing. (Winning, or at least doing their damnest to try.)
B: Have no intention in doing. (Purposely finishing worse than possible.)

?

In some sports it might be beneficial for a team to lose/play to a draw in the group-stage of big tournament, so that they could be paired with weaker teams once the play-off part starts.

Take this big bag of cash and start the leadout for sprinter A way too early I've lumped on sprinter B. PS I've got photos of you buying drug X & Y at that pharmacy in Switzerland.

 

[Robert5091]

Betting examples - MTF - GC guy lets breakaway guy win stage - cash and joy all around. Or guy selling "medicine" to rider also has a big bet on. Lots of scenarios.

 

[veji11]

Let's be honest here, just like the "security" argument for reducing teams by one rider in next year's tour de France was an alibi, this betting thing is an alibi as well to go hunting for the earpieces. organisers (ASO in its time) know how bad for racing the earpieces have been but whenever they tried to ban them collective resistance by the peloton made them give up as when they threatened to strike during a Tour de France stage. So you have to use angles that are undisputable even if intellectually dishonest.

The riders and teams clamor for more security ? Surely a peloton of 176 riders is less dangerous than 198 right ? team size reduction comes through using that angle.

Surely riders and teams wouldn't condone betting affecting the races right ? Cue using that argument to fight against earpieces.

The key is that this fight succeeds. We all want to see the riders back on centre stage, not the DSs, cut the SRMs and earpieces away from the race, let the pack work as a pack with its pecking order, its discussions, etc. That's how it should be.

 

[Robert5091]

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lap...e-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/

"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.

If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/...s-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lap...e-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/

"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.

If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/...s-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html

Does he want the racing to die after ten days?

 

[Craigee]

Re:

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lap...e-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/

"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.

If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/...s-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html

Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?

 

[fmk_RoI]

The really funny thing is that people like 'The Outer Limits' calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, people like Och calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, people like JV calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, and the only people resisting them are the people in the CPA and affiliated regional riders' bodies. Yet here we have the head of the UCI calling for smaller teams and what do we get? Rebellion.

No form of financial reform has yet been suggested that will result in anything other than smaller teams. One version, IIRC, even foresaw teams with just 15 riders on the whole roster.

 

[veganrob]

CPA is there to keep as many riders employeed as possible. No different than any other players union. At least than here in the US.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lap...e-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/

"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.

If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/...s-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html

Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?

He's likely aiming low and hoping to come to a compromise on 7 or 8 per team. No one will agree to six.

 

[yaco]

Six riders will never work - Imagine if you have another 2015 crash, especially early in the race - Lose 2 or 3 riders and then heaven forbid if you then have a TTT - Carnage.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lap...e-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/

"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.

If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/...s-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html

Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?

He's likely aiming low and hoping to come to a compromise on 7 or 8 per team. No one will agree to six.

That is most likely. 8 riders for GTs, 7 for other WT and HC races, 6 for .1 and below would probably be about right.