Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

[yaco]

The British track cycling performance in recent years when you compare the World's and the Olympics is mind boggling - I can understand that you have one off year in the world's between each Olympic cycle so that you develop a new cohort of riders, but the British jump in performance in the Olympics is mind boggling - And this even takes into account that Australia has traditionally performed better at World's - If only the rest of the world could bottle the genie.

 

[thehog]

Re:

There will be selfies!

'Dave' with Egypt's mover and shaker Mohamed Wagih Azzam and Italy's eternal Renato di Rocco.

You can see DLs calendar in the background on his laptop. Busy man. You can imagine Cookson’s work day. Coffee at 9am, selfie at 9:30am, nap time at 10am, selfie again at 10:30am, lunch at 11:30am, ride around Aigle taking selfies at 12:30pm..... repeat to fade.

 

[deviant]

I also can't believe anyone would think that the GB riders would not care between Olympics. Skinner and Marchant would have had every reason to perform at this year's worlds, not counting wanting to uphold their newly found reputations which have been shattered less than a year later. But they'll surprise themselves again in Tokyo

As has already been said (and people seem to be ignoring it), the entire funding for the GB track team is based on Olympic performance...if your livelihood depends on that and not the Worlds what are you going to do?..you may not like it, as an elite sportsperson you may want to perform well every year for reasons of pride and ego...but if that will jeopardise your earnings and risk the roof over your head you'll have to reign that in and focus on a four year cycle instead...just to repeat because some people aren't getting this; the GB track team get nothing in funding for doing well at the Worlds so why risk injury, burnout, over training etc for a competition that gives you NOTHING in financial terms!?...you can also factor in to the reasoning that in the UK virtually nobody watches the Worlds but half the country has been glued to the screen since 2008 watching the Olympic track competition, for riders thinking about a career in the media after cycling they get virtually no exposure in the UK for winning the Worlds but are practically knighted for winning Olympic gold...it's a different setup in the UK with funding, it's a different audience that couldn't give a toss about the Worlds and it's a culture that still has the quaint habit of knighting it's sports stars that do well at the Olympics...given that background I think most cyclists would understand why GB seem to perform at the Olympics and lie low in between...there's no great conspiracy, it's good that Australia also target the Worlds, I don't know enough about the funding setup there but maybe they have a financial incentive or funding increases for performing at the Worlds...team GB doesn't so it's no surprise they don't perform well at the Worlds.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Might have been true if times were faster, but they were slower. GBR only hold 2 World Records in Olympic Disciplines and only the Women's Team Pursuit World record was set in London 2012.

It has taken 15 years or more for pro cyclists to start equalling and bettering the EPO era times. It wasn't a clean sport during that 15 years.

That's not what I mean. I'm saying the French were slower, yet Bauge thinks GB are suspicious. He can't have it both ways.

e.g. Bauge was faster in 2012 Melbourne Worlds than he was in 2012 Olympics despite London being arguably faster track during Olympics. Both tracks are at the same altitude and lots of records got broken in Melbourne.

 

[poupou]

Air pressure is a drag factor, so weather has a say in performance.

 

[Craigee]

I also can't believe anyone would think that the GB riders would not care between Olympics. Skinner and Marchant would have had every reason to perform at this year's worlds, not counting wanting to uphold their newly found reputations which have been shattered less than a year later. But they'll surprise themselves again in Tokyo

As has already been said (and people seem to be ignoring it), the entire funding for the GB track team is based on Olympic performance...if your livelihood depends on that and not the Worlds what are you going to do?..you may not like it, as an elite sportsperson you may want to perform well every year for reasons of pride and ego...but if that will jeopardise your earnings and risk the roof over your head you'll have to reign that in and focus on a four year cycle instead...just to repeat because some people aren't getting this; the GB track team get nothing in funding for doing well at the Worlds so why risk injury, burnout, over training etc for a competition that gives you NOTHING in financial terms!?...you can also factor in to the reasoning that in the UK virtually nobody watches the Worlds but half the country has been glued to the screen since 2008 watching the Olympic track competition, for riders thinking about a career in the media after cycling they get virtually no exposure in the UK for winning the Worlds but are practically knighted for winning Olympic gold...it's a different setup in the UK with funding, it's a different audience that couldn't give a toss about the Worlds and it's a culture that still has the quaint habit of knighting it's sports stars that do well at the Olympics...given that background I think most cyclists would understand why GB seem to perform at the Olympics and lie low in between...there's no great conspiracy, it's good that Australia also target the Worlds, I don't know enough about the funding setup there but maybe they have a financial incentive or funding increases for performing at the Worlds...team GB doesn't so it's no surprise they don't perform well at the Worlds.

All part of the propaganda machine and you clearly believe it. Brailsford's propaganda machine for Sky is gradually being broken down including Wiggins bad mouthing the marginal gains theories.

British Cycling's funding in the supposed 3 off years when they don't try would still be hugely more than any other country.

And Still no reasoning for Cav improving 8 seconds for just 4kms. Can anyone try and attempt this who thinks it's all perfectly clean? Others speak of motors and other things but let's hear what the guys who think's it's clean have to say about Cav improving 8 seconds. Deviant? Samhocking?

And why does Kristina Vogel win everything every year? She doesn't have to peak every 4 years. Vogel publicly questions GB herself. Callum Skinner should be able to rock up and be in the top 3 qualifiers with little support at all. Gee it's just a man and his bike. Why drop off so much? Do you need 5 million dollars to perform at your best on a bike over 200 meters on a velodrome? Plenty don't need any major funding to perform well.

 

[samhocking]

Re:

Air pressure is a drag factor, so weather has a say in performance.

Pretty sure Bauge raced in the same weather as everyone else lol!

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Might have been true if times were faster, but they were slower. GBR only hold 2 World Records in Olympic Disciplines and only the Women's Team Pursuit World record was set in London 2012.

umm almost all world records are at high altitude which I expect you know.

Of the 6 events in each of men's and women's track (Hour, IP, TP, 200m fly, ITT, TS), 7 of the current WRs were set at altitude, 5 at sea level.

Sea level WRs: Men's individual pursuit, team pursuit, and hour record, women's team pursuit and 500m Team Sprint.

Altitude WRs: Men's 200m fly, kilo, team sprint and women's 200m fly, 500m ITT and IP.

Men:
http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/16/60/64/2016.11.10_Historiquedesrecords_ME_TP_Neutral.PDF

Women:
http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/16/60/62/2017.03.02_Historiquedesrecords_WomenElite_Neutral.pdf

 

[Irondan]

Please post comments to the topic at hand, I will have to delete any further off topic comments.

Cheers.

 

[Svetty]

Meet the New Boss
Same as the Old Boss....

 

[oldcrank]

I also can't believe anyone would think that the GB riders would not care between Olympics. Skinner and Marchant would have had every reason to perform at this year's worlds, not counting wanting to uphold their newly found reputations which have been shattered less than a year later. But they'll surprise themselves again in Tokyo

As has already been said (and people seem to be ignoring it), the entire funding for the GB track team is based on Olympic performance...if your livelihood depends on that and not the Worlds what are you going to do?..you may not like it, as an elite sportsperson you may want to perform well every year for reasons of pride and ego...but if that will jeopardise your earnings and risk the roof over your head you'll have to reign that in and focus on a four year cycle instead...just to repeat because some people aren't getting this; the GB track team get nothing in funding for doing well at the Worlds so why risk injury, burnout, over training etc for a competition that gives you NOTHING in financial terms!?...you can also factor in to the reasoning that in the UK virtually nobody watches the Worlds but half the country has been glued to the screen since 2008 watching the Olympic track competition, for riders thinking about a career in the media after cycling they get virtually no exposure in the UK for winning the Worlds but are practically knighted for winning Olympic gold...it's a different setup in the UK with funding, it's a different audience that couldn't give a toss about the Worlds and it's a culture that still has the quaint habit of knighting it's sports stars that do well at the Olympics...given that background I think most cyclists would understand why GB seem to perform at the Olympics and lie low in between...there's no great conspiracy, it's good that Australia also target the Worlds, I don't know enough about the funding setup there but maybe they have a financial incentive or funding increases for performing at the Worlds...team GB doesn't so it's no surprise they don't perform well at the Worlds.

All part of the propaganda machine and you clearly believe it. Brailsford's propaganda machine for Sky is gradually being broken down including Wiggins bad mouthing the marginal gains theories.

British Cycling's funding in the supposed 3 off years when they don't try would still be hugely more than any other country.

And Still no reasoning for Cav improving 8 seconds for just 4kms. Can anyone try and attempt this who thinks it's all perfectly clean? Others speak of motors and other things but let's hear what the guys who think's it's clean have to say about Cav improving 8 seconds. Deviant? Samhocking?

And why does Kristina Vogel win everything every year? She doesn't have to peak every 4 years. Vogel publicly questions GB herself. Callum Skinner should be able to rock up and be in the top 3 qualifiers with little support at all. Gee it's just a man and his bike. Why drop off so much? Do you need 5 million dollars to perform at your best on a bike over 200 meters on a velodrome? Plenty don't need any major funding to perform well.

Come on, Craig. You must be aware that Justin Grace let Cav
in on the 'Kiwi Protocol' that saw Ms. Ulmer go from a 3.30WR
at the 2004 Worlds in May to a 3.24WR at the 2004 Olympics
in August. Six seconds over 3000=eight seconds over 4000.

It had nothing at all to do with Mr. Cookson...or the Lapp-dawg
as you will see at Tokyo in 2020. :surprised:

 

[Parker]

And Still no reasoning for Cav improving 8 seconds for just 4kms. Can anyone try and attempt this who thinks it's all perfectly clean? Others speak of motors and other things but let's hear what the guys who think's it's clean have to say about Cav improving 8 seconds. Deviant? Samhocking?

Cavendish was a novice individual pursuiter who hadn't done it since he was a junior. And he had been able to do little specific training due to road commitments. So, for his initial run,with little data at their disposal BC had to guess at what time he might do and set the schedule accordingly. Having done it they realised they had underestimated him and been far too conservative. Next time, with more data and more training they set a faster schedule more suited to his actual abilities.

 

[Cookster15]

Yes too early to tell. But if Lappartient turns out as bad as Verbruggen, McQuaid and Cookson then Houston we have a problem!!

A conga line of UCI dodginess. What is wrong with cycling that it elects such people? I am less concerned with the individuals than I am in the system that repeats the same mistakes. Obviously to me the UCI needs to be reformed. But how?

I really have far better things to do with my time than trawl through all the comments in the clinic to be enlightened on the "obvious" problems. If I spend more than 30 minutes here that's too long. But making a mistake twice is bad (Verbruggen -> McQuaid). But making this mistake 4 times in a row? I suggest that perhaps it is inevitable because you can never please all of the people all of the time?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Yes too early to tell. But if Lappartient turns out as bad as Verbruggen, McQuaid and Cookson then Houston we have a problem!!

A conga line of UCI dodginess. What is wrong with cycling that it elects such people? I am less concerned with the individuals than I am in the system that repeats the same mistakes. Obviously to me the UCI needs to be reformed. But how?

I really have far better things to do with my time than trawl through all the comments in the clinic to be enlightened on the "obvious" problems. If I spend more than 30 minutes here that's too long. But making a mistake twice is bad (Verbruggen -> McQuaid). But making this mistake 4 times in a row? I suggest that perhaps it is inevitable because you can never please all of the people all of the time?

Lappartient is not from the same stock as the rest. But let see what he does with technology fraud and if we see change by January in the right direct it could be a good thing. If Sky continue to ride up mountains like the flats the he iPad replacement will be another smoke screen. I’m cautiously optimistic.

 

[Robert5091]

DL gets his first mechanical doping ... interesting to see what happens now.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

DL gets his first mechanical doping ... interesting to see what happens now.

So he was president of the FFC for eight years (2009-2017) and no motors were found in French cycling, he's gone from there six months and his successor Michel Callot is already finding them, and yet Lappartient is the one getting the credit? Man, that is whack.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

DL gets his first mechanical doping ... interesting to see what happens now.

This smells of so obvious. Wires everywhere. Strange looking bidon, all black.....just too obvious.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Yes too early to tell. But if Lappartient turns out as bad as Verbruggen, McQuaid and Cookson then Houston we have a problem!!

A conga line of UCI dodginess. What is wrong with cycling that it elects such people? I am less concerned with the individuals than I am in the system that repeats the same mistakes. Obviously to me the UCI needs to be reformed. But how?

I really have far better things to do with my time than trawl through all the comments in the clinic to be enlightened on the "obvious" problems. If I spend more than 30 minutes here that's too long. But making a mistake twice is bad (Verbruggen -> McQuaid). But making this mistake 4 times in a row? I suggest that perhaps it is inevitable because you can never please all of the people all of the time?

Lappartient is not from the same stock as the rest. But let see what he does with technology fraud and if we see change by January in the right direct it could be a good thing. If Sky continue to ride up mountains like the flats the he iPad replacement will be another smoke screen. I’m cautiously optimistic.

Of course the ipads are a smokescreen. Lappartient has Rocco and Pelaez back in as Vice Presidents by his side. The same Rocco and Pelaez who were both Vice Presidents alongside each other for McQuaid. Coincidence? Doesn't fill me with much hope even cautious hope with those two back to power again.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yes too early to tell. But if Lappartient turns out as bad as Verbruggen, McQuaid and Cookson then Houston we have a problem!!

A conga line of UCI dodginess. What is wrong with cycling that it elects such people? I am less concerned with the individuals than I am in the system that repeats the same mistakes. Obviously to me the UCI needs to be reformed. But how?

I really have far better things to do with my time than trawl through all the comments in the clinic to be enlightened on the "obvious" problems. If I spend more than 30 minutes here that's too long. But making a mistake twice is bad (Verbruggen -> McQuaid). But making this mistake 4 times in a row? I suggest that perhaps it is inevitable because you can never please all of the people all of the time?

Lappartient is not from the same stock as the rest. But let see what he does with technology fraud and if we see change by January in the right direct it could be a good thing. If Sky continue to ride up mountains like the flats the he iPad replacement will be another smoke screen. I’m cautiously optimistic.

Of course the ipads are a smokescreen. Lappartient has Rocco and Pelaez back in as Vice Presidents by his side. The same Rocco and Pelaez who were both Vice Presidents alongside each other for McQuaid. Coincidence? Doesn't fill me with much hope even cautious hope with those two back to power again.

Cookosn served under McQuaid, how does resolve with your bias? Cookosn proved fairly much useless as judged by his election result. Lappartient has an opinion and is not afraid to speak. So let’s see if he puts actions behind those words.

 

[samhocking]

Cookson was never Vice President to McQuaid, so hardly a comparable to Lappartient bringing back Rocco and Pelaez who were both McQuaids Vice Presidents?
You might have reasons to believe Rocco and to a less-extent Pelaez did great work while second in command to McQuaid, but i'm failing to think of anything obviously good during their time as VPs?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Cookson was never Vice President to McQuaid, so hardly a comparable to Lappartient bringing back Rocco and Pelaez who were both McQuaids Vice Presidents?
You might have reasons to believe Rocco and to a less-extent Pelaez did great work while second in command to McQuaid, but i'm failing to think of anything obviously good during their time as VPs?

Splitting hairs again. I never said VP, I said “served”. Cookson was head of the British Cycling disasters and served under McQuaid on the road committee. Simple. Cookson’s election result proved he was useless full stop. His track record is being useless. You can’t argue with hard facts, Cookson could only muster 8 votes, the lowest in UCI history and much lower than McQuaid received when he lost.

Whereas Lappartient is 44 years old and already has a strong history of management and results.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Since most people don't even know who the UCI's VPs are - or the fact that there's three of them - let alone what they do, some detail would help here.

The current VPs are: Mohamed Azzam, Renato Di Rocco, and José Manuel Pelaez

Cookson's VPs were: Tracey Gaudry, David Lappartient, and Mohamed Azzam

McQuaid's VPs were: Hee Cho, Renato Di Rocco, and Artur Lopes; José Manuel Pelaez, Artur Lopes, and Vladimir Holecek; and Ray Godkin, Hein Verbruggen, and Vladimir Holecek

Verbruggen's VPs included: Ray Godkin, Vladimir Holececk, Laurent De Backer, Werner Göhner, Agostino Omini, Daniel Baal, among others.

To a question, then:

Lappartient has Rocco and Pelaez back in as Vice Presidents by his side. The same Rocco and Pelaez who were both Vice Presidents alongside each other for McQuaid. Coincidence? Doesn't fill me with much hope even cautious hope with those two back to power again.

What exactly is the issue with Rocco and his brother VP? Is it that they've been here before? Who - out of those available to him - would you have had him pick instead?

In case the UCI's rules help:

Article 49 Presidency and Vice-Presidency
1. The President of the UCI shall also be the Chairman of the Management Committee.
2. The Management Committee shall elect three Vice-Presidents from among its members by secret ballot.

On the duties of the VPs:

3. If the President is absent or unable to attend, he is replaced by the Vice-President appointed by the Executive Committee.
4. If the President is permanently prevented from performing his official function, the Vice-President appointed by the Management Committee shall represent him until the next Congress, where a new President will be elected.

 

[samhocking]

Not sure where you got your dates from, but:

Mr Renato DI ROCCO
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/renato-rocco-ita/
Vice President of the UCI (2009-2013 and since 2017)

Mr José Manuel PELAEZ
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/jose-manuel-pelaez-162761/
UCI Vice President (2008-2009 and since 2017)

Pat McQuaid
2005 - 2013 Elected President of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI)

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Not sure where you got your dates from, but:

Mr Renato DI ROCCO
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/renato-rocco-ita/
Vice President of the UCI (2009-2013 and since 2017)

Mr José Manuel PELAEZ
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/jose-manuel-pelaez-162761/
UCI Vice President (2008-2009 and since 2017)

Pat McQuaid
2005 - 2013 Elected President of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI)

Umm, you just confirmed what fmk_Rol said

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Not sure where you got your dates from, but:

Mr Renato DI ROCCO
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/renato-rocco-ita/
Vice President of the UCI (2009-2013 and since 2017)

Mr José Manuel PELAEZ
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/jose-manuel-pelaez-162761/
UCI Vice President (2008-2009 and since 2017)

Pat McQuaid
2005 - 2013 Elected President of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI)

Umm, you just confirmed what fmk_Rol said

Sam is still trying to get his head around that Cookosn only got 8 votes, the lowest in UCI history