Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I am cautiously optimistic that he will be better than Cookson.

If Lappartient can have the new tech fraud program in place by January as he says he will we should see a far better season in 2018. GTs have become a borefest, with only rhe Giro showing something interesting after Landa and Thomas crashed. I’m interested to see what he comes up with. Wit Gibbs now gone Barfield is still in place, that might prove a problem. Let us see.

.....and thank-you

BREAKING - @GianniMoscon was DSQ in the official final order #Bergen2017

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

He actually suggests trying to hold it the year before the Olys, and using those Oly facilities. Not sure that's feasible, given most Oly infra isn't completed until the year of the Games.

I wonder if the year after would be more feasible. Most venues post-olympics are probably looking for a reason to exist.

John Swanson

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

He actually suggests trying to hold it the year before the Olys, and using those Oly facilities. Not sure that's feasible, given most Oly infra isn't completed until the year of the Games.

I wonder if the year after would be more feasible. Most venues post-olympics are probably looking for a reason to exist.

John Swanson

Everyone knows that in the year after the Olys the Worlds - especially the track worlds - are ***.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

He actually suggests trying to hold it the year before the Olys, and using those Oly facilities. Not sure that's feasible, given most Oly infra isn't completed until the year of the Games.

I wonder if the year after would be more feasible. Most venues post-olympics are probably looking for a reason to exist.

John Swanson

Everyone knows that in the year after the Olys the Worlds - especially the track worlds - are ****.

I don't know that. Of course, I'm an idiot, but I truly don't follow.

John Swanson

 

[Netserk]

Including the road?!

 

[42x16ss]

Between his close ties to ASO and the destruction he was wrought on women's cycling in France, is UCI president David Lappartient worse for cycling than his predecessor Brian Cookson?

Clearly as he isn't British then he must be ok ...

 

[Robert5091]

Mr Gibbs has gone ...
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/martin-gibbs-director-general/

We await news ...
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management-committee-161115/

The UCI Management Committee is the executive body that manages the Federation, acting under the authority of Congress. It meets at least twice a year , headed by the UCI President. Its tasks include executing the decisions of Congress, establishing regulations, awarding the organisation of World Championships and setting up commissions to help it carry out its mission. It also appoints the UCI’s Director General.

 

[fmk_RoI]

A manifesto pledge I forgot to include. This one I'll quote in full - jump to the bullet points at the bottom for the kicker:

ALIGN THE UCI’ ANTI-DOPING POLICIES WITH THAT OF THE IOC’S 1ST JUNE 2016 PROPOSITIONS AND WORK IN COLLABORATION WITH WADA

For a long time, the image of cycling had suffered from disastrous scandals of doping. Significant steps have been taken by many to abolish doping in our sport and agreeable efforts have been made by the International Cycling Union. Our international federation has been a pioneer in being the first to have introduced anti-doping controls, carried out EPO analysis, measured haematocrit levels and established biological passports, among other advances.

Nonetheless, we cannot be complacent. The fight against doping is an ongoing struggle. It is essential that a coordinated effort be put in place by collaborating more effectively with all relevant parties to include the World Anti-Doping Agency, the International Olympic Committee and governmental organisations. During the IOC board meeting of 1st June 2016, the International Olympic Committee announced that it will continue to campaign in favour that controls are carried out independently of sporting organisations, and to ensure consistency in the various national and international anti-doping programmes under the authority of a new entity. The International Cycling Union must once again be at the forefront of these changes, particularly regarding the sanctions procedures, which to date remain too close to the executive board. Our standard operating procedures must be adjusted accordingly.

* OPEN THE “CYCLING ANTI-DOPING FOUNDATION” TO OTHER SPORTS WITH THE NEW NAMING: “ANTI-DOPING FOUNDATION” AND WITH THE POSSIBILITY TO PHYSICALLY REMOVE IT FROM THE UCI PREMISES
* EXTERNALISE THE UCI’ SANCTION PROCEDURES

Those with good memories may find some similarity between DL's proposed Anti-Doping Foundation and Hein Verbruggen's plans for SportAccord.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Mr Gibbs has gone ...
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management/committee/martin-gibbs-director-general/

We await news ...
http://www.uci.ch/inside-uci/organisation/management-committee-161115/

The UCI Management Committee is the executive body that manages the Federation, acting under the authority of Congress. It meets at least twice a year , headed by the UCI President. Its tasks include executing the decisions of Congress, establishing regulations, awarding the organisation of World Championships and setting up commissions to help it carry out its mission. It also appoints the UCI’s Director General.

That’s good news on Gibbs. Think they’ll need to do the same with Barfield who was behind the emails wrt motors warning about fhe police.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

He actually suggests trying to hold it the year before the Olys, and using those Oly facilities. Not sure that's feasible, given most Oly infra isn't completed until the year of the Games.

I wonder if the year after would be more feasible. Most venues post-olympics are probably looking for a reason to exist.

John Swanson

Everyone knows that in the year after the Olys the Worlds - especially the track worlds - are ****.

I don't know that. Of course, I'm an idiot, but I truly don't follow.

John Swanson

Generally all the top track nations ease off for the year after Olympics because their cycle is 4 years, so you see other Nations and lower ranked riders taking some medals away in Worlds following an Olympic year. GB are a little unique in that they traditionally really, really ease off at the Track Worlds in the year before Olympics however. e.g. 2015 Worlds they ranked 10th Nation. This year after 2016 Olympics they ranked 5th, but in the 2016 Olympic year they ranked 1st, like they also did in 2008 & 2012 so clearly the Worlds ranking to some extent with GB, is simply indicating where their riders are at in the 4 year buildup for the next Olympics.

 

[thehog]

Generally?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Generally all the top track nations ease off for the year after Olympics because their cycle is 4 years, so you see other Nations and lower ranked riders taking some medals away in Worlds following an Olympic year. GB are a little unique in that they traditionally really, really ease off at the Track Worlds in the year before Olympics however. e.g. 2015 Worlds they ranked 10th Nation. This year after 2016 Olympics they ranked 5th, but in the 2016 Olympic year they ranked 1st, like they also did in 2008 & 2012 so clearly the Worlds ranking to some extent with GB, is simply indicating where their riders are at in the 4 year buildup for the next Olympics.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks you. That was a clear, concise explanation. To be clear though, I'd have to process this a bit to say I agree with everything you said. But it does ring true.

John Swanson

 

[fmk_RoI]

There will be selfies!

'Dave' with Egypt's mover and shaker Mohamed Wagih Azzam and Italy's eternal Renato di Rocco.

 

[samhocking]

He's got a lot of expensive manifesto to pay for over the next 4 years lol!

Interesting he's picked/UCI Management Committee has voted in Rocco and Pelaez to be VPs and who were last VP under McQuaid.

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

Generally all the top track nations ease off for the year after Olympics because their cycle is 4 years, so you see other Nations and lower ranked riders taking some medals away in Worlds following an Olympic year. GB are a little unique in that they traditionally really, really ease off at the Track Worlds in the year before Olympics however. e.g. 2015 Worlds they ranked 10th Nation. This year after 2016 Olympics they ranked 5th, but in the 2016 Olympic year they ranked 1st, like they also did in 2008 & 2012 so clearly the Worlds ranking to some extent with GB, is simply indicating where their riders are at in the 4 year buildup for the next Olympics.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks you. That was a clear, concise explanation. To be clear though, I'd have to process this a bit to say I agree with everything you said. But it does ring true.

John Swanson

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

I agree. The 4-year cycle theory is pure BS. That might explain the first year, but not the other years as well, with the exception being the Olympics when the team "peaked" after four years of training.

 

[thehog]

He's got a lot of expensive manifesto to pay for over the next 4 years lol!

Interesting he's picked/UCI Management Committee has voted in Rocco and Pelaez to be VPs and who were last VP under McQuaid.

He has a lot of iPads to replace and re-engage the anti-doping team to actually report positives and move them out of the UCI building to make them independent not pretend independent.

Hard to believe that Cookson in his first year ran the UCI into deficit and drove the UCI backwards from McQuaid.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

I agree. The 4-year cycle theory is pure BS. That might explain the first year, but not the other years as well, with the exception being the Olympics when the team "peaked" after four years of training.

The Team GB track squad's funding is based solely on how many medals it gets at the Olympics. So it's not surprising that they throw everything at one week of Olympic racing every 4 years and lack focus for the other 3 years and 51 weeks. The incentives are massively skewed. No matter how much they stink the rest of the time the gravy train keeps rolling for athletes, coaches and managers as long as they smash it at the Olympics

Given Team GB's uber-Darwinian Olympic funding structure (win or die - as has happened to sports which fail to hit medal targets and have had their funding slashed or cut entirely) is it any surprise that athletes, coaches and managers are willing to exhaust all avenues to keep the gravy train rolling? The politicians and UK Sport administrators who set up the win or die system might be naive enough to think it will just make the athletes, coaches, managers, etc try really hard at the Olympics so everyone can bask in reflected glory if/when things go well. But of course those athletes, coaches and managers, whose ability to pay the mortgage is at stake, might think trying really hard isn't enough. The temptations of unethical grey area dodginess and downright illegality are strong in such a system

Bear in mind that the good Dr Richard Freeman (just a footy doctor until Geert Leinders taught him everything he knew) was the Team GB track squad's doctor at the Rio Olympics (IIRC he moved over with Wiggo when Wiggo left Sky to focus on the IP - I bet he did!)

In that context it's interesting to recall the incredulous comments of athletes from rival nations who'd been blown away by the Team GB track squad at Rio. A penny for their thoughts now that the Wiggo's package saga has taught us so much more about Freeman, Wiggo and the GB win clean and ethically myth than we were ever meant to find out

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

I agree. The 4-year cycle theory is pure BS. That might explain the first year, but not the other years as well, with the exception being the Olympics when the team "peaked" after four years of training.

The Team GB track squad's funding is based solely on how many medals it gets at the Olympics. So it's not surprising that they throw everything at one week of Olympic racing every 4 years and lack focus for the other 3 years and 51 weeks. The incentives are massively skewed. No matter how much they stink the rest of the time the gravy train keeps rolling for athletes, coaches and managers as long as they smash it at the Olympics

Given Team GB's uber-Darwinian Olympic funding structure (win or die - as has happened to sports which fail to hit medal targets and have had their funding slashed or cut entirely) is it any surprise that athletes, coaches and managers are willing to exhaust all avenues to keep the gravy train rolling? The politicians and UK Sport administrators who set up the win or die system might be naive enough to think it will just make the athletes, coaches, managers, etc try really hard at the Olympics so everyone can bask in reflected glory if/when things go well. But of course those athletes, coaches and managers, whose ability to pay the mortgage is at stake, might think trying really hard isn't enough. The temptations of unethical grey area dodginess and downright illegality are strong in such a system

Bear in mind that the good Dr Richard Freeman (just a footy doctor until Geert Leinders taught him everything he knew) was the Team GB track squad's doctor at the Rio Olympics (IIRC he moved over with Wiggo when Wiggo left Sky to focus on the IP - I bet he did!)

In that context it's interesting to recall the incredulous comments of athletes from rival nations who'd been blown away by the Team GB track squad at Rio. A penny for their thoughts now that the Wiggo's package saga has taught us so much more about Freeman, Wiggo and the GB win clean and ethically myth than we were ever meant to find out

indeed and also the London Olympics when Bauge got the mic and wondered allowed how the GB cyclists had managed to get their 'preperation' just right....i think he used the term as it has traditionally been used in cycling.............

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

I agree. The 4-year cycle theory is pure BS. That might explain the first year, but not the other years as well, with the exception being the Olympics when the team "peaked" after four years of training.

It depends how you're measuring this. If we go by Worlds & Olympic Track medals say over the last 20 years:

|| WORLDS MEDALS ||
YEAR | AUS | GBR
2000 | 0 | 5
2001 | 3 | 2
2002 | 13 | 5
2003 | 8 | 3
2004 | 5 | 5
2005 | 9 | 6
2006 | 6 | 5
2007 | 6 | 11
2008 | 4 | 11
2009 | 10 | 9
2010 | 10 | 9
2011 | 12 | 9
2012 | 15 | 13
2013 | 8 | 9
2014 | 8 | 5
2015 | 11 | 3
2016 | 9 | 5
2017 | 11 | 5

AUS: 148 TOTAL MEDALS
GBR: 120 TOTAL MEDALS


|| WORLDS RANKING 1 - 10 ||
YEAR | AUS | GBR
2000 | 10 | 4
2001 | 4 | 9
2002 | 1 | 2
2003 | 6 | 5
2004 | 2 | 2
2005 | 4 | 1
2006 | 6 | 5
2007 | 2 | 1
2008 | 11 | 1
2009 | 1 | 3
2010 | 1 | 2
2011 | 1 | 2
2012 | 1 | 2
2013 | 3 | 1
2014 | 3 | 4
2015 | 2 | 10
2016 | 3 | 1
2017 | 1 | 4

AUS: 62 RANKING TOTAL
GBR: 59 RANKING TOTAL

So generally, AUS win more total Worlds medals, but GBR win higher value medals to rank slightly more highly, but very, very little in it when you look at actual ranking, which is indicative of gaining high value medals rather than lower value or total medals.

In terms of Olympics Records

|| OLYMPICS MEDALS ||
YEAR | AUS | GBR
2000 | 6 | 4
2004 | 11 | 4
2008 | 1 | 14
2012 | 6 | 12
2016 | 2 | 12

AUS: 26 TOTAL MEDALS
GBR: 46 TOTAL MEDALS

|| OLYMPICS RANKING 1 - 21 ||
YEAR | AUS | GBR
2000 | 5 | 6
2004 | 1 | 3
2008 | 12 | 1
2012 | 4 | 1
2016 | 13 | 1

AUS: 35 RANKING TOTAL
GBR: 12 RANKING TOTAL

So generally AUS win slightly more medals than GBR in Worlds, but GBR win more at Olympics, but at Worlds they both perform very similarly even in Olympic years.

Interestingly, the only World Records GBR hold in olympic events are in Men & Womens Team Pursuit gained in Rio & London Olympics. However they hold 7 Olympic records.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

All well and good but it still defies logic the way GB dominate at the Olympics. The Australians have amazing depth on the track but always get their bums handed to them at the Olympics with all their depth. Great Britain simply has no depth. This is the main reason they fail at worlds. Australia can and does put up a whole new team at worlds and still win. So it is no excuse for GB that they don't send their best. This is why I say it's very suspicious what happens every 4 years.

Cav had done enough Individual Pursuits before Rio to say it was not right to take 8 seconds off his PB and be rude enough to state after that he was hoping to break Wiggins' Olympic Record.

How many IPs had Trott done? Many yet takes seconds off her PB.

Skinner and Marchant grew a leg in Rio then both sadly dropped back to where they were before hand at this year's worlds. Well down the pack.

Jason Kenny went terrible by his standards between Olympics and was so frustrated he was talking retirement (no injuries) but then also grows a leg in Rio.

These incredible turn arounds in performances and unbelieveable performances stand out far more than any hill climbing feats that get widely discussed here. It's far easier to measure and compare rides on an indoor velodrome especially with most modern ones built by the same man.

I agree. The 4-year cycle theory is pure BS. That might explain the first year, but not the other years as well, with the exception being the Olympics when the team "peaked" after four years of training.

The Team GB track squad's funding is based solely on how many medals it gets at the Olympics. So it's not surprising that they throw everything at one week of Olympic racing every 4 years and lack focus for the other 3 years and 51 weeks. The incentives are massively skewed. No matter how much they stink the rest of the time the gravy train keeps rolling for athletes, coaches and managers as long as they smash it at the Olympics

Given Team GB's uber-Darwinian Olympic funding structure (win or die - as has happened to sports which fail to hit medal targets and have had their funding slashed or cut entirely) is it any surprise that athletes, coaches and managers are willing to exhaust all avenues to keep the gravy train rolling? The politicians and UK Sport administrators who set up the win or die system might be naive enough to think it will just make the athletes, coaches, managers, etc try really hard at the Olympics so everyone can bask in reflected glory if/when things go well. But of course those athletes, coaches and managers, whose ability to pay the mortgage is at stake, might think trying really hard isn't enough. The temptations of unethical grey area dodginess and downright illegality are strong in such a system

Bear in mind that the good Dr Richard Freeman (just a footy doctor until Geert Leinders taught him everything he knew) was the Team GB track squad's doctor at the Rio Olympics (IIRC he moved over with Wiggo when Wiggo left Sky to focus on the IP - I bet he did!)

In that context it's interesting to recall the incredulous comments of athletes from rival nations who'd been blown away by the Team GB track squad at Rio. A penny for their thoughts now that the Wiggo's package saga has taught us so much more about Freeman, Wiggo and the GB win clean and ethically myth than we were ever meant to find out

indeed and also the London Olympics when Bauge got the mic and wondered allowed how the GB cyclists had managed to get their 'preperation' just right....i think he used the term as it has traditionally been used in cycling.............

The BBC saw it as sour grapes from the other nations, whereas most knew it was doing and tech fraud.

 

[samhocking]

Might have been true if times were faster, but they were slower. GBR only hold 2 World Records in Olympic Disciplines and only the Women's Team Pursuit World record was set in London 2012.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Might have been true if times were faster, but they were slower. GBR only hold 2 World Records in Olympic Disciplines and only the Women's Team Pursuit World record was set in London 2012.

It has taken 15 years or more for pro cyclists to start equalling and bettering the EPO era times. It wasn't a clean sport during that 15 years.

 

[Craigee]

Re:

Might have been true if times were faster, but they were slower. GBR only hold 2 World Records in Olympic Disciplines and only the Women's Team Pursuit World record was set in London 2012.

umm almost all world records are at high altitude which I expect you know. Nice try though. And why go back so far in comparing medal counts? In the modern era GB stink at the worlds. You cannot tell me that it's best to peak every 4 years. Something is wrong if an Olympic Champ can't peak once a year. Surely there can be no study to say it is best for an athlete to peak every 4 years.

I also can't believe anyone would think that the GB riders would not care between Olympics. Skinner and Marchant would have had every reason to perform at this year's worlds, not counting wanting to uphold their newly found reputations which have been shattered less than a year later. But they'll surprise themselves again in Tokyo if things stay the same as they are and have been in the recent past.

It would be nice though if someone can give good reasons for the incredibly improved performances in Rio. An 8 seconds improvement over 16 laps has to be suspicious in anyone's book.

 

[Craigee]

A Good example is that Purvis has the Kilo TT world record at 56 seconds at altitude but can't break the minute barrier at sea level. That is a massive difference.