Last battle at lombardy! Who will win?

[Swingtop]

Top10 in Milan Sanremo, isn't that Top10 in a classic?

If Cavendish can win it? No.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Remember Erik Dekker. Also a -just not- rider like Gilbert until he suddenly won 3 tour stages, a world cup race, and the year after the World Cup itself, at age 30/31.

Remember his 50+ in Verona '99?
After Rabo did everything in it's power to clean his name he probably just thought he was untouchable.

Gilbert is younger and shows improvement every season.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Top10 in Milan Sanremo, isn't that Top10 in a classic?

So in what way exactly is MSR comparable to actually HARD classics like AGR, LBL, FW, Lombardy?

Cmon, even I did the poggio on the outer blade, the climb is nothing. MSR is not a hilly classic/hard classic. Read what the subject is about please.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Remember his 50+ in Verona '99?
After Rabo did everything in it's power to clean his name he probably just thought he was untouchable.

Gilbert is younger and shows improvement every season.

Ofcourse he is, but fact remains that he has shown second to none in hilly classics last year. I'm just judging purely by results, it's a huge leap. Ofcourse any idiot could see he had class, but for those type of races, hard hilly classics, he didn't show much at all.

Why is that so hard for people to see Or why do people immediately think I'm suspecting anyone from dope. I'm not that kind of 'fan' Ease off bro

 

[Angliru]

Aussie, you know I am a Cadel fan, and I have taken a verbal beating on the odd occasion for my troubles. But honestly of late, the bias towards Cadel has become almost unbearable even for me.

Aus and msjett, I kind of thought that since his WC win that the bashing had subusided and for the most part people were giving Evans his just due for his WC performance. If you look back at the posts since then there have been many positive posts regarding how he's representing the WC jersey well with aggressive riding and support for Gilbert. Now don't confuse that with opinion having made a 180 degree turn but IMO there has been a definite change in tone. Of course he will still be some posters favorite whipping boy as long as he has his regular public meltdowns (raises his hand) but I've gained a greater respect for him over the past month or so.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Ofcourse he is, but fact remains that he has shown second to none in hilly classics last year. I'm just judging purely by results, it's a huge leap. Ofcourse any idiot could see he had class, but for those type of races, hard hilly classics, he didn't show much at all.

Why is that so hard for people to see Or why do people immediately think I'm suspecting anyone from dope. I'm not that kind of 'fan' Ease off bro

Relax dude, I'm just saying the Dekker comparison isn't good.

Judging someone like Gilbert by results isn't right anyway. If you blow yourself up before the real final you usually have a bad result. His final step towards world top could also be a combination of age and intellect. Results only say who won a race.

 

[Angliru]

I think with Gilbert in the past and as recently as LBL the timing of his attacks were off, often a bit premature. Where if you look at his attack in GdL, he was in a group where someone (I can't for the life of me remember who it was) was on the front setting the pace, motioned for someone to take over while slightly veering to the left. The entire group followed the lead rider over instead of pulling through. Gilbert obviously saw this as sign that no one had the legs and/or inclination so he attacked. The right decision at the pivotal moment. Only Sanchez could respond. Compare that to LBL where he attacked just before the penultimate steep climb and essentially blew up. To me what happened next was a precursor to his season ending streak of wins: he was still able to recover from his failed attack to get 4th place in one of the toughest classics there is.

Its not like all of a sudden he's become an aggressive rider. This was his calling card. He now has the physical and mental maturity to put his aggressive nature to positive effect. It was written somewhere that he's taken the mantle that Paolo Bettini used to hold and I'd be inclined to agree to a lesser degree.

As far as the other classics, MSR is not beyond his ability as he's always been one of the animators there each year. This year he's shown that he can excel at Flanders. Its possible that being on a Belgium team has allowed him to reach his potential. I'm just curious why some are shocked at his results when he's always been an animator. These riders tend to get results more than a rider like, let's say Hincapie, (who I personally like), but seldom takes the initiative to take a chance and make something happen instead of waiting for others to do so and responding.

 

[Echoes]

So in what way exactly is MSR comparable to actually HARD classics like AGR, LBL, FW, Lombardy?

Cmon, even I did the poggio on the outer blade, the climb is nothing. MSR is not a hilly classic/hard classic. Read what the subject is about please.

Have you done the Poggio after 290km? (and after several other climbs)

Milan Sanremo is a hard classic for a rider like him. Attacking on the Poggio + resisting the peloton is certainly something very hard to do, much harder to do than on the harder routes if you have the legs for it (holds true for Paris-Tours as well, I would say). Merckx has always said that an attacker could benefit from the climb over the Poggio and its descent but he needs to be very clear-headed and fresh because the Poggio intervenes after 290km riding.

By the way he's also been 7th and 15th in the WC + 15th in Flanders + 16th in Liège when he rode for Madiot, which is not that bad.

 

[Echoes]

If Cavendish can win it? No.

Yeah but I'm scared to tell here what I think of Sanremo's sprints.

 

[Echoes]

By the way, I think Hoogerland had to leave the Rabo junior team because of an abnormal testosterone/epitestosterone rate but the second assessment proved to be natural. Am I wrong?

 

[Swingtop]

By the way, I think Hoogerland had to leave the Rabo junior team because of an abnormal testosterone/epitestosterone rate but the second assessment proved to be natural. Am I wrong?

That's how many years ago? 8, 10, or longer? And did they really test the kids this young? I doubt it. Where did you get this info?
Edit: this happened in 2001. Then again, why bring this up? Is there really reason to doubt him? I'm just glad there's a (Dutch)man who doesn't believe in team orders and attacks at will, even though it's probably not that smart.

 

[Echoes]

A certain site called Cyclingnews.com.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/sep01/sep16news.php

See the article Rabobank sack young rider

 

[Echoes]

Then again, why bring this up? Is there really reason to doubt him? I'm just glad there's a (Dutch)man who doesn't believe in team orders and attacks at will, even though it's probably not that smart.

I've seen suspicion around him on this thread. That's why I brought this up. That's all.

 

[Anonymous]

A certain site called Cyclingnews.com.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/sep01/sep16news.php

See the article Rabobank sack young rider

sadder on that page to read rumours of pantani, vbd and virenque joining forces on mercatone uno.. who would imagined 8 years on 2 of them would be dead..

i think with hoogerland my opinion is this... people looked at brads 4th this year in the tour, said it was from nowhere, and that he must be doing in unnaturaly...

hoogerland, failed test at 18, and then a mediocre junior career, junior flanders in 2001 but then what, 3 notable wins in SIX years.... then suddenly 2009, 5th, Giro di Lombardia, 12th in the Tour of Flanders , 12th overall in the Vuelta, 14th in the World Championships...

Hes either the surprise of the year, or one of the most improved cyclists of the last ten years...

 

[il_fiammingo]

I think with Gilbert in the past and as recently as LBL the timing of his attacks were off, often a bit premature. Where if you look at his attack in GdL, he was in a group where someone (I can't for the life of me remember who it was) was on the front setting the pace, motioned for someone to take over while slightly veering to the left. The entire group followed the lead rider over instead of pulling through. Gilbert obviously saw this as sign that no one had the legs and/or inclination so he attacked. The right decision at the pivotal moment. Only Sanchez could respond. Compare that to LBL where he attacked just before the penultimate steep climb and essentially blew up. To me what happened next was a precursor to his season ending streak of wins: he was still able to recover from his failed attack to get 4th place in one of the toughest classics there is.

Its not like all of a sudden he's become an aggressive rider. This was his calling card. He now has the physical and mental maturity to put his aggressive nature to positive effect. It was written somewhere that he's taken the mantle that Paolo Bettini used to hold and I'd be inclined to agree to a lesser degree.

As far as the other classics, MSR is not beyond his ability as he's always been one of the animators there each year. This year he's shown that he can excel at Flanders. Its possible that being on a Belgium team has allowed him to reach his potential. I'm just curious why some are shocked at his results when he's always been an animator. These riders tend to get results more than a rider like, let's say Hincapie, (who I personally like), but seldom takes the initiative to take a chance and make something happen instead of waiting for others to do so and responding.

I totally agree.

 

[ak-zaaf]

hoogerland, failed test at 18, and then a mediocre junior career, junior flanders in 2001 but then what, 3 notable wins in SIX years....

Well, in his defense, he only started to be professional about cycling last year. Before that he was more into partying. The leap is still (more than) remarkable, but he did change his life.

 

[Echoes]

And in his defence too, the results of the later tests proved he had a naturally high level of testosterone and he suffered from a bad reputation after failing the test in 2001. He was booed from the biggest teams and landed in small Belgian teams.

Everybody can make their own opinion about this.

 

[Swingtop]

The real notable fact is that he lost 7 kilos last year and now only weighs 65. That will get you quicker up a mountain like no doping can.

 

[Anonymous]

The real notable fact is that he lost 7 kilos last year and now only weighs 65. That will get you quicker up a mountain like no doping can.

touche , 9, 10