Last world tour spot to be decided between Saxo and Shimano?

[roadbiker]

Final 3 spots will go to:
Lotto-Belisol
Saxo-Tinkoff
Argos-Shimano

 

[El Pistolero]

Or where race favourites will have to open up earlier to eliminate nobodies from the win Perhaps riders won't wait for Roche aux Faucons before making a move in L-B-L

With notorious wheelsuckers like Valverde, I'll pass lol.

Nah, it will just be your typical Olympic road race. I found the 2004-2008 events rather boring(and the most impressive thing, Cancellara's come-back, was barely shown on camera). 2012 was good given the course it was run on, but I was bummed by the fact that so many good riders just weren't willing to race actively. Instead they preferred to look at Team GB all day.

 

[Parrulo]

yeah with contador in it they were and showed they were (winning vuelta)

indeed, saxo had a team of fantastic domestiques but most of them don't have a leader's mentality, mostly because they have never been one. Guys like nicki sorensen, paulinho, pires, hernandes and navarro really make a difference on a team in while working for some1 but hardly get results themselves.

 

[biopass]

Pure sprinters team vs. one man GT Team who's main objective is the tour?

Easy decision if you ask me.

 

[El Pistolero]

Kittel is one of the most boring riders in the peloton in my opinion. Wasn't even that good of a sprinter this year. He's definitely not real WT material yet if you ask me...

Degenkolb is so much better though.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Easy solution: increase WT to 20 teams.

Reduce GT teams from 9 to 8.

Reduce classic teams from 8 to 7.

no, a much better solution is decrease to 12 teams or 15 at the most.

 

[Parrulo]

or simply end the nonsense know as the world tour. . . .

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Kittel is one of the most boring riders in the peloton in my opinion. Wasn't even that good of a sprinter this year. He's definitely not real WT material yet if you ask me...

I think you're wrong. Of course Kittel wasn't very good in the Tour, which is bad luck and makes his season look not that good, and looking solely at results, no, his 2012 wasn't that good, but still very decent.

He was a very good sprinter this year though. Just take a look at his results against Greipel and Cavendish.

vs Greipel:

Tour of Oman stage 1: Kittel 4 - Greipel 1
Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Greipel 2
Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 5
Scheldeprijs: Kittel 1 - Greipel 12
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Greipel 6
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Greipel 1
(Vattenfall Cyclassics: Kittel 112 - Greipel 2)
Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen: Kittel 17 - Greipel 4
GP Impanis - Van Petegem: Kittel 7 - Greipel 1
(Circuit Franco-Belge stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 19)
Münsterland-Giro: Kittel 1 - Greipel 10

vs Cavendish:

Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 8
Tour of Oman stage 6: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 14
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 3
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Cavendish 2
Ster ZLM Tour stage 4: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 16

If he isn't good enough for WT, which sprinters, besides Greipel and Cavendish, are then? I guess Sagan, but who else?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

kittel is a VERY limited sprinter. he can't climb for ****, lacks the engine to do anything in races around 200 km of any good level. will never have a chance in any classics, also sucks on cobbles. basically he's a lesser version of greipel. only in speed they are somewhat close, but I don't see kittel winning many gt stages, ever in his career.

 

[theyoungest]

yeah with contador in it they were and showed they were (winning vuelta)

Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.

I dare say that the GC competition was far stronger than the sprinting one

 

[theyoungest]

I dare say that the GC competition was far stronger than the sprinting one

Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.

 

[Netserk]

Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.

And amongst the sprinters were Bennati, who won a bunch sprint....

 

[El Pistolero]

I think you're wrong. Of course Kittel wasn't very good in the Tour, which is bad luck and makes his season look not that good, and looking solely at results, no, his 2012 wasn't that good, but still very decent.

He was a very good sprinter this year though. Just take a look at his results against Greipel and Cavendish.

vs Greipel:

Tour of Oman stage 1: Kittel 4 - Greipel 1
Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Greipel 2
Driedaagse De Panne-Koksijde stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 5
Scheldeprijs: Kittel 1 - Greipel 12
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Greipel 6
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Greipel 1
(Vattenfall Cyclassics: Kittel 112 - Greipel 2)
Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen: Kittel 17 - Greipel 4
GP Impanis - Van Petegem: Kittel 7 - Greipel 1
(Circuit Franco-Belge stage 2: Kittel 1 - Greipel 19)
Münsterland-Giro: Kittel 1 - Greipel 10

vs Cavendish:

Tour of Oman stage 3: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 8
Tour of Oman stage 6: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 14
Ster ZLM Tour stage 1: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 3
Ster ZLM Tour stage 2: Kittel 6 - Cavendish 2
Ster ZLM Tour stage 4: Kittel 1 - Cavendish 16

If he isn't good enough for WT, which sprinters, besides Greipel and Cavendish, are then? I guess Sagan, but who else?

How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.

 

[Pentacycle]

How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.

Greipel has won exactly 6 WT stages, half of which he won Down Under.(the other half are Tour stages ofc) The rest of his victories are just small races just like Kittel's. How impressive is that.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

How many WT races did he win? Exactly, only 2. I'm not saying he's not good enough to be in a WT team, I'm saying he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races. He might as well stay in a procontinal team and get a wildcard for a GT and WT stage races like Poland and Eneco Tour.

Well, you can't win the races you aren't invited to. Last year he raced in two WorldTour-races (besides the Worlds and PR) and won one stage in the Vuelta and four stages in Tour of Poland.

This year he raced in three WorldTour-races (besides the oneday races) and won two stages in the Eneco Tour.

Plus he's shown that he's got the speed to compete with the top sprinters, Greipel and Cavendish.

Anyway, I just interpreted your comment "He's definitely not real WT material" more like "he's not good enough to be in a WT team" than "he hasn't really proven much yet in WT races". I guess you can see why that interpretation is the most obvious one.

I get your point though, but it would fit on most sprinters then. Kittel is, in my opinion at least, definitely among the best sprinters in the peloton and hence deserves to be on a ProTeam.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

what talents do they have then(general question)? the team is a joke and in every mountainstage every rider finishes in the bus

The same goes for Greenedge, but somehow they managed to win 2 WT stage races and a monument.

On the other hand, I resented the amount of invites Argos were able to get last year when their contribution to the races was virtually nil. I can count on one hand the amount of races that really benefited from their presence... Paris-Tours, and... erm... er... I'll get back to you.

I won't miss them if they're not WT. Probably cos they'll be invited to every race anyway.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

How many sprinter-oriented teams are in the WT? Two? Three?
How many GT-classement oriented teams are in the WT? A dozen?

So I'll cheer of course for Argos.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

I won't miss them if they're not WT. Probably cos they'll be invited to every race anyway.

Same for Saxo, so this is not an argument.

 

[Netserk]

Same for Saxo, so this is not an argument.

Saxo won't be invited to races, where you won't be able to see them. Argos will.

 

[Afrank]

I think both Saxo and Argos deserve a spot in the world tour, but since only one of them can have that spot I hope it goes to Saxo. Argos for the most part will bring sprinter and possibly some classic contenders for the cobbles and MSR. They do have some promising U23 talents that could become good climbers or GC riders, but I doubt those riders will be contending for GC in their first season in the pro ranks (plus racing continental could be better for them). Saxo will bring a lot more to the WT, they have a much wider variety of riders, and can contend in more races. So I am hoping they get the spot.

 

[theyoungest]

Saxo won't be invited to races, where you won't be able to see them.

The Ardennes classics? And, if Breschel's knee gives in again, the cobbled classics?

 

[El Pistolero]

The Ardennes classics? And, if Breschel's knee gives in again, the cobbled classics?

Kreuziger was fourth in LBL last year if I remember correctly. That's good enough to get a wildcard. And if they bring Contador that would be even better. I think Contador will be there for Flèche Wallonne, but I'm not so sure about the other 2 classics.

Breschel is also good enough for Saxobank to deserve a wildcard for the cobbled classics. If his knee gives in, too bad! **** happens.

There's usually plenty of wildcards available for one day races. It's only problematic for GTs in my opinion.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Don't know, the best stage racer of the season wasn't there. And the arguably second best was past his peak.

Now you are just being silly. The sprinters line up at the Vuelta was absolutely appalling. It was like watching Argos club baby seals.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yes, Saxo (a GC team) won the Vuelta. Argos (a sprinting team) won 5 stages. Each did very well in their own specialty.

argos also rode the tour with their a squad wn were the joke of that tour. argos were a joke in every wt race they ended, bar the vuelta, which had the worst sprinter participation of any gt in recent years