Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 126km

[railxmig]

Re: Re:

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

He ended up losing more than a minute on that stage, and was only 6 minutes behind in the end. Imagine someone just stopping the race at this point.

I wouldn't really count it as a similar case. Behind Kruijswijk there was a fully rolling Sky train (i guess as i didn't watched the stage, i estimate this from the reports) controlling the effort while today it was a similar case to Froome doing a Landis last year. Considering the circumstances i think Bernal would be in yellow no matter where the finish line would be.

I guess like Reichenbach last year this time de Plus could end up being just a dead weight slowing down the group and there was no Dumoulin to do the towing (GT was not going to chase). What happened happened. Still, i consider it being the best Tour since 2011, even with Pinot being Cadel Evans and weather shenanigans.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

This. There was a Long Way to go. Nothing says he'd still be there at the end. Tomorrow if he goes out and wins the stage dropping everyone, he'll have proved best. Otherwise he's just the Luckiest IMO.

He's done that multiple times now. And lucky over who? The guy who he put 2 minutes into on just one climb today, the guy who he's put over 2:30 on in 4 mountain stages, or his teammate?

 

[Lequack]

Now that Alaphillipe can TT we can expect much more timetrialing in the next Tours.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Re: Re:

[quote="ont think so. Imo Ineos would love to shut up the critics with a statement win.

Ineos can only shut critics up by being even more dominant

Yeah no doesn't work like that.

Think critics are about making the race boring (not necessarily dominance) and clinic stuff. I think everybody wants to see the best rider win in the yellow jersey tomorrow, that just feels right after today.

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

Lucky? Bernal has now gained 2:32 on SK on 4 different mountain stages so I'm not exactly feeling like he was screwed.

I don't see why is it relevant? (and you're counting a lot of seconds that were just given to him today, the chasing pack took the top much easier than Bernal, recuperating for the downhill, getting bottles and vest, while Bernal sprinted for bonus seconds) There was a lot of flat road in the valley left, Bernal had to go on his own and SK had De Plus and quite possibly Buchmann and Uran helping him. Bernal would spend massive amount of energy just to stay in front of the group. I doubt he'd have enough to make another attack on a much easier climb to Tignes

 

[Nacho]

Re: Re:

Climber standings:

1 ROMAIN BARDET 86 PTS
2 TIM WELLENS 74 PTS
3 DAMIANO CARUSO 67 PTS
4 SIMON YATES 59 PTS
5 EGAN BERNAL 58 PTS

It can be very interesting. Bernal could take this too with 40 points in Val Thorens

Ineos will ride as slowly as possible - Little hope Bernal will win the stage.

But 2nd place is also at issue. GT could get there if they ride it.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Re: Re:

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

He ended up losing more than a minute on that stage, and was only 6 minutes behind in the end. Imagine someone just stopping the race at this point.

I wouldn't really count it as a similar case. Behind Kruijswijk there was a fully rolling Sky train (i guess as i didn't watched the stage, i estimate this from the reports) controlling the effort while today it was a similar case to Froome doing a Landis last year. Considering the circumstances i think Bernal would be in yellow no matter where the finish line would be.

I guess like Reichenbach last year this time de Plus could end up being just a dead weight slowing down the group and there was no Dumoulin to do the towing (GT was not going to chase). What happened happened. Still, i consider it being the best Tour since 2011, even with Pinot being Cadel Evans and weather shenanigans.

Of course the situation is different, but that's not what's important here. They just drew an imaginary line and declared it the finish of the stage. There's no word about how many riders are there in any group, it's all irrelevant. I'm just showing you why it's a terrible thing to do. People train months for a race like this and the rules change in the middle of the race? It's absurd

 

[huangho]

Paper is king!!

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Think critics are about making the race boring (not necessarily dominance) and clinic stuff. I think everybody wants to see the best rider win in the yellow jersey tomorrow, that just feels right after today.

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

Lucky? Bernal has now gained 2:32 on SK on 4 different mountain stages so I'm not exactly feeling like he was screwed.

I don't see why is it relevant? (and you're counting a lot of seconds that were just given to him today, the chasing pack took the top much easier than Bernal, recuperating for the downhill, getting bottles and vest, while Bernal sprinted for bonus seconds) There was a lot of flat road in the valley left, Bernal had to go on his own and SK had De Plus and quite possibly Buchmann and Uran helping him. Bernal would spend massive amount of energy just to stay in front of the group. I doubt he'd have enough to make another attack on a much easier climb to Tignes

There was not "a lot" of flat road left, there was a very small amount, certainly not enough to take them back before the climb. And Bernal was not on his own. Yates would have certainly helped as he was going for the stage win.

 

[luckyboy]

Tomorrow's stage looks like it will be shortened due to landslides. No Cormet de Roselend. Maybe only 60km stage and only the climb to Val Thorens.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Re: Re:

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

Lucky? Bernal has now gained 2:32 on SK on 4 different mountain stages so I'm not exactly feeling like he was screwed.

I don't see why is it relevant? (and you're counting a lot of seconds that were just given to him today, the chasing pack took the top much easier than Bernal, recuperating for the downhill, getting bottles and vest, while Bernal sprinted for bonus seconds) There was a lot of flat road in the valley left, Bernal had to go on his own and SK had De Plus and quite possibly Buchmann and Uran helping him. Bernal would spend massive amount of energy just to stay in front of the group. I doubt he'd have enough to make another attack on a much easier climb to Tignes

There was not "a lot" of flat road left, there was a very small amount, certainly not enough to take them back before the climb. And Bernal was not on his own. Yates would have certainly helped as he was going for the stage win.

I've been to Tignes this year, there is certainly more than 10ks, maybe even 15 between Val d'Isere and Tignes, the whole TT had 27... That's more than enough to make up 1 minute, even if not, like i said, Bernal would use a lot of energy and I doubt Yates would help much either, but maybe would, who knows..

 

[klintE]

Robbery
I'm sick of it

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Think critics are about making the race boring (not necessarily dominance) and clinic stuff. I think everybody wants to see the best rider win in the yellow jersey tomorrow, that just feels right after today.

Unfortunately, the best rider climbed off and got into his team car today.

 

[Andy262]

Re:

General conclusion:

- neutralization of the stage concerning riders' health & safety: perfect decision
- choosing a time and place earlier in a race as finish and/or time recording: feels incredibly wrong

This. A wholly unsatisfactory way to decide the race. Although I don't think any way was satisfactory as things turned out.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re: Le Tour '19 stage 19: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Tignes 1

Cormet de Roselend impraticable demain en raison notamment d’une coulée de boue. Départ 14h30 d’Albertville, étape autour de 60km, parcours toujours en cours de réflexion, montée vers Val Thorens seulement

So CdR is out for tomorrow.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Re:

Paper is king!!

Interestingly Simon Yates got 13 seconds back from Bernal on the descent, I wonder how much JA really made up up until they stopped the race.

 

[houtdffan]

Re:

Tomorrow's stage looks like it will be shortened due to landslides. No Cormet de Roselend. Maybe only 60km stage and only the climb to Val Thorens.

could they reroute and do the big Madeleine instead? Similar to how the 2015 stage to ADH was rerouted to include Croix de Fer instead of Galiber?

 

[Andy262]

Re:

Complicated outcome, but maybe they should half the time gaps.

In Formula 1 if a race doesn't reach it's conclusion but has completed a significant percentage of it, teams are awarded half of the points on offer.

So half everyone's total time over the l'Iseran?

It'll never happen, but seems a sensible compromise.

Think this is the best suggestion I've seen.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Tomorrow's stage looks like it will be shortened due to landslides. No Cormet de Roselend. Maybe only 60km stage and only the climb to Val Thorens.

could they reroute and do the big Madeleine instead? Similar to how the 2015 stage to ADH was rerouted to include Croix de Fer instead of Galiber?

No, confirmed just a 59km stage with the final climb.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Think critics are about making the race boring (not necessarily dominance) and clinic stuff. I think everybody wants to see the best rider win in the yellow jersey tomorrow, that just feels right after today.

Unfortunately, the best rider climbed off and got into his team car today.

Not even close

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That F1 rule only comes into effect if less than 75% of race distance is completed, above that full points are awarded. Iseran is at just over two thirds distance, so the F1 rule would have come into effect on this occasion, but on some occasions in the past would not.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Honeslty, it feels like the luckiest rider is in yellow right now. I know Bernal did look super strong both yesterday and today. But if I remember correctly the very same rider who got screwed the most today, Kruijswijk had a huge lead in the stage to Alpe d'Huez last year with 36kms to go, yet ended up losing time to Geraint Thomas in that stage.

This. There was a Long Way to go. Nothing says he'd still be there at the end. Tomorrow if he goes out and wins the stage dropping everyone, he'll have proved best. Otherwise he's just the Luckiest IMO.

He's done that multiple times now. And lucky over who? The guy who he put 2 minutes into on just one climb today, the guy who he's put over 2:30 on in 4 mountain stages, or his teammate?

He's 22 years old. Who knows if he could ride 35km on the flat and get over the last climb holding his lead on the 21st day of a GT? I know he's never done it before!

And just how many stages has he dropped everyone and won? None that I've seen. Unless you're counting the cancelled one today he's won Zero. He hasn't even podiumed a stage.

 

[RedheadDane]

In a way, this - with all its weirdness and bizarrity - is exactly why I love cycling:
Because it's so weird and bizarre.

 

[Northerner]

Re: Re:

Tomorrow's stage looks like it will be shortened due to landslides. No Cormet de Roselend. Maybe only 60km stage and only the climb to Val Thorens.

could they reroute and do the big Madeleine instead? Similar to how the 2015 stage to ADH was rerouted to include Croix de Fer instead of Galiber?

No, confirmed just a 59km stage with the final climb.

Terrible end to the Tour if this is what happens. Great news for Alaphillippe though.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Think critics are about making the race boring (not necessarily dominance) and clinic stuff. I think everybody wants to see the best rider win in the yellow jersey tomorrow, that just feels right after today.

Unfortunately, the best rider climbed off and got into his team car today.

Not even close

Elaborate.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

I think not being able to come up with a decent backup course for tomorrow's stage is pretty lame. That will have a massive impact on the race, unlike (IMO) today's neutralization.

Robbery
I'm sick of it

Who was robbed?