Le Tour 2018 stage 19:Lourdes - Laruns 200,5km

[DNP-Old]

Thomas is going to win the ITT tomorrow.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Thomas is going to win the ITT tomorrow.

No I think Roglic will take more risks

 

[Zoophonic]

Thomas getting a predictable amount of Plaudits from the forum for almost certainly winning the Tour. I.e. None

There are a few British posters happy about it. I can’t see why many of those without nationalistic affiliations to Sky or Thomas would be keen. There’s a certain romance to the gregario getting his day, I suppose, but that factor is greatly lessened by Sky’s mega bucks status,

Actually you're wrong.
I have zero allegiance to a team. I just know and followed the rider. He's a fantastic character, very generous in spirit. . Supports youth development and his old cycling club in Wales and there will be millions in Britain celebrating his win. Has nothing to do with Sky. There's a lot of people over here who are indifferent to Sky but that doesn't mean they admire individual riders who by the way are human beings - a point conveniently forgotten by the bores who trot out the "skybot" narrative.

I said “nationalistic affiliations to Sky or Thomas”. You responded by saying that I’m wrong and that for many the nationalistic affiliations are to Thomas, not Sky. I’m not sure how that in any way contradicts my statement. None of these “millions in Britain” would give a rats rectum about him supporting his old cycling club if he was from Holland or Slovenia instead.

Not saying they will. I do and that's all that's important. Anyway he hasn't quite won the thing yet. But if and when he does Ill toast him and the fact that Brits willhave won 7 out of the last 9 Tours and the last 4 GTs.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: Re:

When was the last time 4 time trialists of this calibre were at the top of the GC?

With no TT so far :lol:

this is actually the traditional norm.

powerful TTers who can actually climb are traditionally the winners of GT.

light, small climbers are more likely to have a really bad day.

It is only in severe clinic days that light climbers could get recharged each day, less wear and tear, less natural recovery was needed. and also they suddenly could TT as well.

Traditionally, light climbers do not win GTs. TTers who climb do.

They win it by minimising their losses on the climbs and then smashing them in the TTs before defending. Not by dropping them on their own terrain

simply not true.

merckx would drop fuente

hinault dropped herrera

lemond dropped miller, lejaretta, hampsten.

seriously, cycling history shows powerful riders dropping light climbers in GTs in the mountains. power TTers (who can climb) deal with the successive racing days better.

this is just historical fact.

 

[loge1884]

@ zinoviev letter

actually I'm happy for Geraint Thomas (probably) winning the tour, why not? .... and I have no "nationalistic" or other affiliations" of any kind to Wales, Great Britain or Rupert Murdoch (or in future Disney) .... actually, I don't like Rupert Murdoch or any company within his empire

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I understand people being harsch on Dumoulin. But his tactics were logical.
The only chances of beating Thomas would be if Thomas badly cracked. He tested with 2 big attacks, Thomas looked like following easily. Right there it was clear 2nd place in GC was highest possible. So from then on Froome and Roglic were his opponents. Not Thomas.
Thus everytime Roglic attacked, Dumoulin responded / closed the gap. He wasn't racing Thomas anymore, he was riding for the best possible result left (stage win / 2nd place GC).

I fully understand the hatrid/comments for that. But they were not going to do any damage to Thomas GC. That fight was over as soon as Thomas responded to the first attacks.

I don't think Dumoulin could have done much more than he did. He had no team mates unlike Thomas and Roglic and Thomas was always going to grab the bonus because of his sprint.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Thomas is going to win the ITT tomorrow.

No I think Roglic will take more risks

Thomas looked far too comfortable on the Aubisque to me. He was honestly looking like he was planning his post-TDF vacation and reminding himself not to forget pepper when doing grocery shopping next week.

 

[shalgo]

Only 41 other riders finished within half an hour of Roglic.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

When was the last time 4 time trialists of this calibre were at the top of the GC?

With no TT so far :lol:

this is actually the traditional norm.

powerful TTers who can actually climb are traditionally the winners of GT.

light, small climbers are more likely to have a really bad day.

It is only in severe clinic days that light climbers could get recharged each day, less wear and tear, less natural recovery was needed. and also they suddenly could TT as well.

Traditionally, light climbers do not win GTs. TTers who climb do.

They win it by minimising their losses on the climbs and then smashing them in the TTs before defending. Not by dropping them on their own terrain

I would argue a Tour de France winner is an all-rounder not weak in any area across 3 weeks. Climbers tend to be very up and down and inconsistent (See Quintana or Bardet) and generally don't win Tour de France.

You had Pantani & Sastre being the only pure sub 60kg climbers to win Tour de France in last 20 years. Generally you need to be >65kg it seems with 65-75kg being the weight required.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: Re:

When was the last time 4 time trialists of this calibre were at the top of the GC?

With no TT so far :lol:

this is actually the traditional norm.

powerful TTers who can actually climb are traditionally the winners of GT.

light, small climbers are more likely to have a really bad day.

It is only in severe clinic days that light climbers could get recharged each day, less wear and tear, less natural recovery was needed. and also they suddenly could TT as well.

Traditionally, light climbers do not win GTs. TTers who climb do.

They win it by minimising their losses on the climbs and then smashing them in the TTs before defending. Not by dropping them on their own terrain

I would argue a Tour de France winner is an all-rounder not weak in any area across 3 weeks. Climbers tend to be very up and down and inconsistent (See Quintana or Bardet) and generally don't win Tour de France.

You had Pantani & Sastre being the only pure sub 60kg climbers to win Tour de France in last 20 years. Generally you need to be >65kg it seems with 65-75kg being the weight required.

bingo.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

When was the last time 4 time trialists of this calibre were at the top of the GC?

With no TT so far :lol:

this is actually the traditional norm.

powerful TTers who can actually climb are traditionally the winners of GT.

light, small climbers are more likely to have a really bad day.

It is only in severe clinic days that light climbers could get recharged each day, less wear and tear, less natural recovery was needed. and also they suddenly could TT as well.

Traditionally, light climbers do not win GTs. TTers who climb do.

They win it by minimising their losses on the climbs and then smashing them in the TTs before defending. Not by dropping them on their own terrain

I would argue a Tour de France winner is an all-rounder not weak in any area across 3 weeks. Climbers tend to be very up and down and inconsistent (See Quintana or Bardet) and generally don't win Tour de France.

You had Pantani & Sastre being the only pure sub 60kg climbers to win Tour de France in last 20 years. Generally you need to be >65kg it seems with 65-75kg being the weight required.

Sastre won the Tour with one attack and had by far the strongest team in the race. Evans was under siege on every climb and also had a heavy fall hence his mediocre TT at the finish. Pantani could TT better than most pure climbers.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Thomas getting a predictable amount of Plaudits from the forum for almost certainly winning the Tour. I.e. None

There are a few British posters happy about it. I can’t see why many of those without nationalistic affiliations to Sky or Thomas would be keen. There’s a certain romance to the gregario getting his day, I suppose, but that factor is greatly lessened by Sky’s mega bucks status,

Actually you're wrong.
I have zero allegiance to a team. I just know and followed the rider. He's a fantastic character, very generous in spirit. . Supports youth development and his old cycling club in Wales and there will be millions in Britain celebrating his win. Has nothing to do with Sky. There's a lot of people over here who are indifferent to Sky but that doesn't mean they admire individual riders who by the way are human beings - a point conveniently forgotten by the bores who trot out the "skybot" narrative.

I said “nationalistic affiliations to Sky or Thomas”. You responded by saying that I’m wrong and that for many the nationalistic affiliations are to Thomas, not Sky. I’m not sure how that in any way contradicts my statement. None of these “millions in Britain” would give a rats rectum about him supporting his old cycling club if he was from Holland or Slovenia instead.

Not saying they will. I do and that's all that's important. Anyway he hasn't quite won the thing yet. But if and when he does Ill toast him and the fact that Brits willhave won 7 out of the last 9 Tours and the last 4 GTs.

As I said, there will be Brits who are happy for nationalist reasons. As you are. I wouldn’t expect many others to be particularly keen on another Sky rider winning another Tour made mostly boring by the stranglehold of a mega money team. A long time domestique winning the Tour would probably attract more sympathy from neutrals if he was on a less dominant team and it felt less like watching a production line. As it is, well I doubt many are cheering. Roglic or Dumoulin would be much more popular winners among those not from any of their countries.

 

[Dr. Watson]

Grupetto with Sagan comes within a time limit

 

[loge1884]

Re:

Grupetto with Sagan comes within a time limit

good news .... at least the green jersey doesn't degrade to a lottery payout ...

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Bring it come G

Bring it come?

Very strange man.

:lol:

(Definitely a case of over-excitement, spurting, overflowing man-crush fanboy over-excitement.)

Freudian slip of mammoth proportions.

 

[rick james]

i'll take it

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re:

I understand people being harsch on Dumoulin. But his tactics were logical.
The only chances of beating Thomas would be if Thomas badly cracked. He tested with 2 big attacks, Thomas looked like following easily. Right there it was clear 2nd place in GC was highest possible. So from then on Froome and Roglic were his opponents. Not Thomas.
Thus everytime Roglic attacked, Dumoulin responded / closed the gap. He wasn't racing Thomas anymore, he was riding for the best possible result left (stage win / 2nd place GC).

I fully understand the hatrid/comments for that. But they were not going to do any damage to Thomas GC. That fight was over as soon as Thomas responded to the first attacks.

Totally agree. I think Dumo knew before the start of the stage he was fighting for podium as he knew Thomas has a big enough lead for the ITT. Unless something bad happened it was always the case. He has had a really good race seeing it's his second GT of year and to podium both is more than what most riders have done by just targeting one. If only he could attack with a bit more power and keep it going for longer he would have had more chance of staying away. He's had a good crack and well done to him.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

i'll take it

Congrats by the way. I just hope someone (Roglic, Dumoulin, anybody) steps up to loosen this stranglehold that they have on the Tour and now it seems, grand tours in general.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

32 seconds between 2nd and 4th

All we need now, is for Thomas to crash or have a flat on the TT, and the yellow jersey becomes a toss up between 4 guys.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

32 seconds between 2nd and 4th

All we need now, is for Thomas to crash or have a flat on the TT, and the yellow jersey becomes a toss up between 4 guys.

I can’t see G going all out for the TT stage win. He already has 2 stage wins, he has a 2 minute cushion ahead of a 30km test, and he crashed on a shorter length TT in the Dauphine. He will have time checks, and can ride within himself and lose <1 min to Roglic or Dumoulin. No need to overcook any corners or risk shaving any curbs or barriers.

 

[Escarabajo]

Chapeau Roglic!
Great win.

I agree with Dumo working because he had to defend his position which I think is very important, taking into account that He did the Giro. 2nd place is a great accomplishment for him. Besides, Roglic is a great time triallist.

I wouldn't be surprise if Thomas wins tomorrow. I don't like him as the winner. It just doesn't feel right.

 

[jaylew]

Multiple riders saying Roglic got away on the descent because of a motorbike. I didn't see it. Is that accurate?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Multiple riders saying Roglic got away on the descent because of a motorbike. I didn't see it. Is that accurate?

Probably, bike looked very close and was told to give more space at one point.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Multiple riders saying Roglic got away on the descent because of a motorbike. I didn't see it. Is that accurate?

Probably, bike looked very close and was told to give more space at one point.

This issue is starting to be repetitive. And it can change races results.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

32 seconds between 2nd and 4th

All we need now, is for Thomas to crash or have a flat on the TT, and the yellow jersey becomes a toss up between 4 guys.

I can’t see G going all out for the TT stage win. He already has 2 stage wins, he has a 2 minute cushion ahead of a 30km test, and he crashed on a shorter length TT in the Dauphine. He will have time checks, and can ride within himself and lose <1 min to Roglic or Dumoulin. No need to overcook any corners or risk shaving any curbs or barriers.

Pressure can do a lot to you..... I remember several instances of riders being in a great position before the final TT, and then bombing out completely.

I hope Thomas wins it, I'm rooting for him..... I'm just saying, all it takes is a technical, and a little loss of concentration, and everything can happen.

Surely it's anybodys guess who ends up 2nd, if Thomas pulls it off.