le Tour team thread

[perico]

If Vande Velde doesn't crash, he'll be in contention for a high place on GC. He won't win it, but he'll be in the Top 6 or 7. He's a talented rider and his build up has gone perfectly this year. What impresses me about him is that he never really blows up. If he gets dropped, he always is able to limit his losses on the climbs. He's got 2 Top 10 finishes, and one of them was with cracked vertabrae in his back. He's getting older, but he went a few years missing out on the GTs, and didn't wear his body down like many contenders have done in the past, meaning he didn't peak at the 28-30 year normality.

For his sake, let's just hope he stays off the tarmac.

 

[Sylvester]

Daniel Martin skipped the Giro to have a go at the Tour. Why on earth would he not even be in Garmin's line up? Have I missed something?

 

[perico]

Daniel Martin skipped the Giro to have a go at the Tour. Why on earth would he not even be in Garmin's line up? Have I missed something?

Because he'll have to prove it. Garmin is a split team, with Farrar for the sprints and VdV/Ryder for the GC. There's only so much room, especially if you are riding for the Green Jersey as well as a Top 5 or possibly podium placing.

You take your 9 best riders, and Tommy Danielson has fantastic form at the moment. They are also targeting the TTT win, so they aren't going to leave out Zabriskie, Dandy Millar, or even Tommy D/Maaskant. Van Summeren is strong on all terrains.

Where is there a place for a guy who hasn't finished in the top 30 in a GT so far? He has talent, but they said the same thing about Tommy D. for years, and Martin seems very fragile as a 3 week rider thus far.

 

[dlwssonic]

Daniel Martin skipped the Giro to have a go at the Tour. Why on earth would he not even be in Garmin's line up? Have I missed something?

to get ready for the all important tour of poland

 

[lancaster]

the saxo team weren't US postal strong but they did the job.

at least 80% of the job is ensuring the right break goes and GC hopeful is fed and watered. (they seemingly did this well. there was no story of sastre 30 mins up the road or AC bonking)

setting the pace is the rest and other teams will do this work if they have something to go for and you let the right break go.

 

[theyoungest]

Daniel Martin skipped the Giro to have a go at the Tour. Why on earth would he not even be in Garmin's line up? Have I missed something?

I think he skipped the Giro because he can't breathe properly in May. And I can think of a few reasons why they wouldn't take him to the Tour, f.ex. he's useless in the TTT.

 

[El Pistolero]

I think he skipped the Giro because he can't breathe properly in May. And I can think of a few reasons why they wouldn't take him to the Tour, f.ex. he's useless in the TTT.

Garmin ain't going to win the TTT anyway.

 

[theyoungest]

Garmin ain't going to win the TTT anyway.

No, Gilbert will singlehandedly lead Lotto to a win in the TTT... right, Pisti?

 

[El Pistolero]

No, Gilbert will singlehandedly lead Lotto to a win in the TTT... right, Pisti?

No, HTC will crush everyone.

But thanks for trolling

 

[kurtinsc]

No, HTC will crush everyone.

But thanks for trolling

What's the HTC squad going to be?

I know HTC will be very good... but Garmin (depending on who they select) would seem to be able to put together a pretty good TTT group themselves. Same goes for RS.

I mean I know Martin is great and nobody they bring will be weak in the TTT, but what other TT engines will be there for HTC? Will Grabsch or Peter Velits be there? Rabon maybe?

 

[El Pistolero]

TTT is more about organisation than individual talent. Liquigas is the proof of that. Besides their team is filled with talent and big motors on the flat.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Daniel Martin skipped the Giro to have a go at the Tour. Why on earth would he not even be in Garmin's line up? Have I missed something?

+1

Because he'll have to prove it. Garmin is a split team, with Farrar for the sprints and VdV/Ryder for the GC. There's only so much room, especially if you are riding for the Green Jersey as well as a Top 5 or possibly podium placing.

You take your 9 best riders, and Tommy Danielson has fantastic form at the moment. They are also targeting the TTT win, so they aren't going to leave out Zabriskie, Dandy Millar, or even Tommy D/Maaskant. Van Summeren is strong on all terrains.

Where is there a place for a guy who hasn't finished in the top 30 in a GT so far? He has talent, but they said the same thing about Tommy D. for years, and Martin seems very fragile as a 3 week rider thus far.

TD has had his chances (not really in the tour, but still).
Martin deserves a shot. He has already proven his talent, what more does he need to do.

If Vande Velde doesn't crash, he'll be in contention for a high place on GC. He won't win it, but he'll be in the Top 6 or 7. He's a talented rider and his build up has gone perfectly this year. What impresses me about him is that he never really blows up. If he gets dropped, he always is able to limit his losses on the climbs. He's got 2 Top 10 finishes, and one of them was with cracked vertabrae in his back. He's getting older, but he went a few years missing out on the GTs, and didn't wear his body down like many contenders have done in the past, meaning he didn't peak at the 28-30 year normality.

For his sake, let's just hope he stays off the tarmac.

Meh, there are much better riders here then VDV. 2008 was a weakish field.

Samu, Schlecks +2, Contador (even if tired), VDB, Basso, Evans, Gesink, Uran, Old Timer Shacks etc should have no issues beating him.

 

[kurtinsc]

TTT is more about organisation than individual talent. Liquigas is the proof of that. Besides their team is filled with talent and big motors on the flat.

Be that as it may... in the last tour ITT they ended up 5th place. And that squad had a lot of big engines that aren't on the team anymore. Rogers, Hincapie, Monfort and Kirchen.

I'm wondering who's going to be riding that makes you think they'd be head and shoulders above the other teams near the top this year. They used Rabon, Pinnotti, Gretsch and Rasmussen in the Giro. If they don't ride, I see Martin and Grabsch as the potential big motors... but then who else?

If Peter Velits and Van Garderen ride, then I could see it. If not... and the Giro guys don't ride... I just don't see the engines that are so big to make them a prohibitive favorite. They aren't bad... just not enough for me to ink them in as the winner.

 

[kurtinsc]

+1



Meh, there are much better riders here then VDV. 2008 was a weakish field.

Samu, Schlecks +2, Contador (even if tired), VDB, Basso, Evans, Gesink, Uran, Old Timer Shacks etc should have no issues beating him.

Not sure that's entirely fair. IF VDV is at the same level he was in 2008 and 2009 and hasn't tailed off due to age, he's probably in the same group with how guys like Hesjedal, Gesink and VDB performed at last year's tour.

Now I don't know if he's still at that level... and some of them like Gesink are likely improving. And others like Kloden/Basso who didn't ride well last year may improve this year. But I think he's a definite top 10 potential guy this year.

 

[El Pistolero]

Be that as it may... in the last tour ITT they ended up 5th place. And that squad had a lot of big engines that aren't on the team anymore. Rogers, Hincapie, Monfort and Kirchen.

I'm wondering who's going to be riding that makes you think they'd be head and shoulders above the other teams near the top this year. They used Rabon, Pinnotti, Gretsch and Rasmussen in the Giro. If they don't ride, I see Martin and Grabsch as the potential big motors... but then who else?

If Peter Velits and Van Garderen ride, then I could see it. If not... and the Giro guys don't ride... I just don't see the engines that are so big to make them a prohibitive favorite. They aren't bad... just not enough for me to ink them in as the winner.

What makes you think HTC decided to send a stronger squad at the Giro than at the Tour?

 

[perico]

+1



TD has had his chances (not really in the tour, but still).
Martin deserves a shot. He has already proven his talent, what more does he need to do.



Meh, there are much better riders here then VDV. 2008 was a weakish field.

Samu, Schlecks +2, Contador (even if tired), VDB, Basso, Evans, Gesink, Uran, Old Timer Shacks etc should have no issues beating him.

Exactly what has Martin proven over a 3 week period? There's no doubting he has some natural talent, but hasn't shown that he is GT capable. Danielson has a couple of top 10 GT finishes, and could've added another 2 were it not for late withdrawals for ailments. He is on flying form, and deserves a place on the tour team. Martin hasn't proven he can handle repeated mtn. stages over a 3 week period, nor is he as strong as Tommy D in the TT/TTT.

Per VdV, some forget that had he crossed the final climb of stage 16 within 25 seconds of the leaders in 2008, and lost 2 minutes per his crash (go figure) on the downhill. Without the crash, he would've gone into the final TT within 1 minute of Sastre, and he beat Sastre, Evans, and Menchov in that final race against the clock. He's a very talented rider. He isn't on Contador's or Baby Schleck's level, but if age hasn't started his decline, he still is a contender for the Top 5... barring crash.

 

[kurtinsc]

What makes you think HTC decided to send a stronger squad at the Giro than at the Tour?

Stronger squad for what?

Just because the Tour squad will be stronger overall, doesn't make it stronger for a TTT.

You're turning this around without answering a pretty simple question. Who do you see riding for them in the TTT that will put them head and shoulders ahead of everyone else?

Give me the names you see on their tour squad.

 

[El Pistolero]

Stronger squad for what?

Just because the Tour squad will be stronger overall, doesn't make it stronger for a TTT.

You're turning this around without answering a pretty simple question. Who do you see riding for them in the TTT that will put them head and shoulders ahead of everyone else?

Give me the names you see on their tour squad.

HTC need to control the flat stages to turn them into flat sprints. That means they'll need strong rouleurs. Squads like that are always strong in the TTT.

They haven't announced their Tour squad yet, but most of their team consists of strong rouleurs, they have no shortage. A team filled with time trial specialists doesn't make it a good TTT squad by the way. They're the best team for TTT and Garmin-Cervelo has probably never heard of the word team.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Exactly what has Martin proven over a 3 week period? There's no doubting he has some natural talent, but hasn't shown that he is GT capable. Danielson has a couple of top 10 GT finishes, and could've added another 2 were it not for late withdrawals for ailments. He is on flying form, and deserves a place on the tour team. Martin hasn't proven he can handle repeated mtn. stages over a 3 week period, nor is he as strong as Tommy D in the TT/TTT.

Per VdV, some forget that had he crossed the final climb of stage 16 within 25 seconds of the leaders in 2008, and lost 2 minutes per his crash (go figure) on the downhill. Without the crash, he would've gone into the final TT within 1 minute of Sastre, and he beat Sastre, Evans, and Menchov in that final race against the clock. He's a very talented rider. He isn't on Contador's or Baby Schleck's level, but if age hasn't started his decline, he still is a contender for the Top 5... barring crash.

lol flying form?
Ohhh ToC ey.

I guess I can pencil Laurens Ten Dam in for a podium at the tour then.


If anything that performance is an indication of peaking early. I assume they don't want their TdF men firing on all cylinders at the ToC.

Martin is 24, it is not unusual that a rider hasn't shown much in a GT by now. How old was AC when he won the tour? His first attempt attempt at the tour had him near 50th also.
Anyway his giro's aren't really fair to evaluate him, because he struggles with allergies.

Martin is a natural climber, this course should suit him, Potentially Martin could do a much better race than TD (potentially) who we all know wont match the big guys here.

Anyway 2008 is not enough for me to suggest that VDV is at the level of the top dogs at the tour. Certainly should be leader or co-leader, but I don't label him as a top5-favorite, no way.

 

[Eric8-A]

Garmin's team for the Tour is going to be almost that of the team that won the TTT at the Giro in '08 that beat Columbia. Plus, they have the riders that were key to their TTT victories in their early days. Also, remember that they were second to Astana in the '09 Tour.

 

[greenedge]

They're the best team for TTT and Garmin-Cervelo has probably never heard of the word team.

Neither has AG2R.

Teams like Sky, Garmin, RS, Leopard, SBS and HTC will be the ones competing. Liquigas could also go well. Expect most of the PC French teams to lose time too. Then they shall control who goes in the breakaway ( French Rivalry ) for the first week until Gilbert gets away.

 

[auscyclefan94]

HTC crushing everyone in the ttt is so mundane! I hope and I do think that they will be at least challenged at the tdf ttt.

 

[El Pistolero]

lol flying form?
Ohhh ToC ey.

I guess I can pencil Laurens Ten Dam in for a podium at the tour then.


If anything that performance is an indication of peaking early. I assume they don't want their TdF men firing on all cylinders at the ToC.

Martin is 24, it is not unusual that a rider hasn't shown much in a GT by now. How old was AC when he won the tour? His first attempt attempt at the tour had him near 50th also.
Anyway his giro's aren't really fair to evaluate him, because he struggles with allergies.

Martin is a natural climber, this course should suit him, Potentially Martin could do a much better race than TD (potentially) who we all know wont match the big guys here.

Anyway 2008 is not enough for me to suggest that VDV is at the level of the top dogs at the tour. Certainly should be leader or co-leader, but I don't label him as a top5-favorite, no way.

That's just not comparable and you know it. Contador already outclimbed the likes of Evans, Valverde, Savoldelli, Cunego, Piepoli at age 22/23.

Seeing as Contador was the first since Ullrich to win both the white jersey and yellow jersey in the same Tour, I'd say he was pretty young. And he wasn't coming out of nowhere to be good in that Tour. What has Martin ever achieved at the same age versus some of the best climbers in the world?(I'm assuming you mean Daniel, but Tony would be even more ridiculous )

 

[profff]

i think that danielson is not a good option in the tour.
he is still unable to roule in the group in flat stages without spending too uch energy and in the first week flat stages will be very fast and hard.
they will cook him before the mountains and i do not believe he can hold the pression of riding a tdf.

martin has skills, and in the final part of last season he showed good things ( emilia...).
he deserves a chance, because he has potential. TD has already had his chances and he is fading and in any case he has never proven that he can repeat in important races his supposed astonishing lab test results.

 

[theyoungest]

That's just not comparable and you know it. Contador already outclimbed the likes of Evans, Valverde, Savoldelli, Cunego, Piepoli at age 22/23.

Seeing as Contador was the first since Ullrich to win both the white jersey and yellow jersey in the same Tour, I'd say he was pretty young. And he wasn't coming out of nowhere to be good in that Tour. What has Martin ever achieved at the same age versus some of the best climbers in the world?(I'm assuming you mean Daniel, but Tony would be even more ridiculous )

Volta a Catalunya, Stage 3 : La Vall d’en Bas - Andorra (Pal) (189.4 km) 23/03/2011

1. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto SBS 5h45'31" 40
2. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele LAM 23" 25
3. [USA] LEIPHEIMER Levi RSH 23" 15
4. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 35" 10
5. [USA] HORNER Chris RSH 35" 5

Giro dell'Emilia (195.6 km) 9/10/2010

1. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 4h49'14" 140
2. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 84
3. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele AND 01" 70
4. [RUS] KOLOBNEV Alexandr KAT 09" 63
5. [ITA] NIBALI Vincenzo LIQ 11" 56

Volta a Catalunya, Stage 4 : La Pobla de Lillet - Vallnord Pal (166.2 km) 21/05/2009

1. [ESP] SANCHEZ PIMIENTA Julian MCO 4h46'29" 40
2. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 06" 25
3. [ESP] VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro GCE 08" 15
4. [ESP] ZUBELDIA AGIRRE Haimar AST 12" 10
5. [ESP] ASTARLOZA CHAURREAU Mikel EUS 21"