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El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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theyoungest said:
Volta a Catalunya, Stage 3 : La Vall d’en Bas - Andorra (Pal) (189.4 km) 23/03/2011

1. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto SBS 5h45'31" 40
2. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele LAM 23" 25
3. [USA] LEIPHEIMER Levi RSH 23" 15
4. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 35" 10
5. [USA] HORNER Chris RSH 35" 5

Giro dell'Emilia (195.6 km) 9/10/2010

1. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 4h49'14" 140
2. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 84
3. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele AND 01" 70
4. [RUS] KOLOBNEV Alexandr KAT 09" 63
5. [ITA] NIBALI Vincenzo LIQ 11" 56

Volta a Catalunya, Stage 4 : La Pobla de Lillet - Vallnord Pal (166.2 km) 21/05/2009

1. [ESP] SANCHEZ PIMIENTA Julian MCO 4h46'29" 40
2. [IRL] MARTIN Daniel GRM 06" 25
3. [ESP] VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro GCE 08" 15
4. [ESP] ZUBELDIA AGIRRE Haimar AST 12" 10
5. [ESP] ASTARLOZA CHAURREAU Mikel EUS 21"
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_nnv3Etzfg&feature=related

I'm sorry, but I've never seen Martin do stuff like that at same age ^

Besides at age 24 AC won Paris-Nice with 2 stages. Martin has done nothing of note this season. If he came top 10 I'd be heavily surprised.
And Conti was a year younger when he did his first GT(Tour) and got 31st. While Martin didn't even top 50 in Vuelta. Not that it matters how you did in your first GT anyway. It's how you do in your second and third GT that matters.

And seriously Giro dell'Emilia? What's that got to do with GC?
 
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_nnv3Etzfg&feature=related

I'm sorry, but I've never seen Martin do stuff like that at same age ^

Besides at age 24 AC won Paris-Nice with 2 stages. Martin has done nothing of note this season. If he came top 10 I'd be heavily surprised.
And Conti was a year younger when he did his first GT(Tour) and got 31st. While Martin didn't even top 50 in Vuelta. Not that it matters how you did in your first GT anyway. It's how you do in your second and third GT that matters.

And seriously Giro dell'Emilia? What's that got to do with GC?
Click to expand...
Just reacting to your question whether he'd shown anything against top climbers. Yes he has. Where do I argue he'll get a top-10 in the Tour? I don't even think Garmin should take him.

BTW, "it's how you do in your second and third GT that matters"... what a gem. Just because Contador didn't do much in his first GT?
 
Timmy-loves-Rabo

Timmy-loves-Rabo

Jun 22, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_nnv3Etzfg&feature=related

I'm sorry, but I've never seen Martin do stuff like that at same age ^

Besides at age 24 AC won Paris-Nice with 2 stages. Martin has done nothing of note this season. If he came top 10 I'd be heavily surprised.
And Conti was a year younger when he did his first GT(Tour) and got 31st. While Martin didn't even top 50 in Vuelta. Not that it matters how you did in your first GT anyway. It's how you do in your second and third GT that matters.

And seriously Giro dell'Emilia? What's that got to do with GC?
Click to expand...


I'm not comparing him to AC, was just an example, my point was Martin can imorove and deserves a chance imo.

Anyway Martin has shown a fair bit in terms of climbs. And he is never good early in the year as he suffers from allergies.
 
auscyclefan94

auscyclefan94

Jun 16, 2009
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247101_191378200909497_133552943358690_463711_6768590_n.jpg


New BMC TT bike
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
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theyoungest said:
Just reacting to your question whether he'd shown anything against top climbers. Yes he has. Where do I argue he'll get a top-10 in the Tour? I don't even think Garmin should take him.

BTW, "it's how you do in your second and third GT that matters"... what a gem. Just because Contador didn't do much in his first GT?
Click to expand...

And Indurain, and Armstrong, and Pantani, ;) You see where this is going to? It hardly matters what one has done in his first GT as they most likely were in a domestique role.

And I said Contador beat top climbers. All you showed was Martin getting beaten by Gesink and some other climbers. I just don't see the comparison between the two. One has shown a lot of promise from early on, while the other has shown promise obviously, but not nearly as much at the same age. So, it's going to take more then Contador didn't do sh*t in his first GT and look at him now argument. There's racing outside a GT.
 
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
And Indurain, and Armstrong, and Pantani, ;) You see where this is going to? It hardly matters what one has done in his first GT as they most likely were in a domestique role.

And I said Contador beat top climbers. All you showed was Martin getting beaten by Gesink and some other climbers. I just don't see the comparison between the two. One has shown a lot of promise from early on, while the other has shown promise obviously, but not nearly as much at the same age. So, it's going to take more then Contador didn't do sh*t in his first GT and look at him now argument. There's racing outside a GT.
Click to expand...
Ah, so when Contador beats Valverde, he's beaten a top climber, but when Dan Martin does, he hasn't :eek:

When people say Contador hadn't shown much in GTs at Dan Martin's age either, that's just a valid argument. Because like Contador, Dan Martin has shown a lot elsewhere.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
17,455
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theyoungest said:
Ah, so when Contador beats Valverde, he's beaten a top climber, but when Dan Martin does, he hasn't :eek:

When people say Contador hadn't shown much in GTs at Dan Martin's age either, that's just a valid argument. Because like Contador, Dan Martin has shown a lot elsewhere.
Click to expand...

When Contador beat him, he also won the race. That's the difference, no one was better.

Dan Martin did very bad in 2 GTs and has shown a lot less elsewhere as well. Contador won his second GT. Comparison just doesn't hold up.
 
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
15,326
4,141
28,180
El Pistolero said:
When Contador beat him, he also won the race. That's the difference, no one was better.

Dan Martin did very bad in 2 GTs and has shown a lot less elsewhere as well. Contador won his second GT. Comparison just doesn't hold up.
Click to expand...
I like how you use one argument to say that the Contador case is different (a lot of great riders didn't show anything in their first GT), and then its complete opposite to show that the Dan Martin case is different (Dan Martin didn't show anything in his first GT, and thus sucks) :eek:
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
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theyoungest said:
I like how you use one argument to say that the Contador case is different (a lot of great riders didn't show anything in their first GT), and then its complete opposite to show that the Dan Martin case is different (Dan Martin didn't show anything in his first GT, and thus sucks) :eek:
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he sucks?

I'm saying his case is not the same as Contador's as the latter has shown more outside of GTs. And won his second GT he entered while Martin didn't even top 50 in his second one.

Contador won races like Setmana Catalana, Paris-Nice, stages in Suisse and Romandie(plus podium), time trial wins in Pais Vasco+ podium, Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, queen stage in Valencia(and would have won the overall if it wasn't for the bad luck that resulted in Valverde winning it in the end), etc

And let's not forget his early career was troubled with health problems. He was nearly dead in 2004 and rode his first GT in 2005 not long after his come back... What's Martin's excuse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gEMmUrsD8

^ Or did you forget about that.
 
Parrulo

Parrulo

Aug 5, 2010
11,027
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El Pistolero said:
I'm not saying he sucks?

I'm saying his case is not the same as Contador's as the latter has shown more outside of GTs. And won his second GT he entered while Martin didn't even top 50 in his second one.

Contador won races like Setmana Catalana, Paris-Nice, stages in Suisse and Romandie(plus podium), time trial wins in Pais Vasco+ podium, Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, queen stage in Valencia(and would have won the overall if it wasn't for the bad luck that resulted in Valverde winning it in the end), etc

And let's not forget his early career was troubled with health problems. He was nearly dead in 2004 and rode his first GT in 2005 not long after his come back... What's Martin's excuse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gEMmUrsD8

^ Or did you forget about that.
Click to expand...


a bit off topic but the story about his brother is really sad :eek:
 
just some guy

just some guy

Apr 9, 2011
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Whoever Garmin go with be nice to see Tommy D get to the big show. Was going to be the next GC rider from the US 10 years ago, all the talent in the world. Just shows how important the mental side is.
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
I'm not comparing him to AC, was just an example, my point was Martin can imorove and deserves a chance imo.

Anyway Martin has shown a fair bit in terms of climbs. And he is never good early in the year as he suffers from allergies.
Click to expand...

Yes he deserves a chance, but the problem is his team has too many big guns, so it's hard to find a good spot for him.
 
C

Clemson Cycling

Jun 28, 2009
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This is my best guess with the guys in bold making it

Tom Danielson
Julian Dean
Tyler Farrar
Heinrich Haussler
Ryder Hesjedal
Thor Hushovd
Daniel Martin
David Millar
Christian Vande Velde
Johan Vansummeren
David Zabriskie
 
Michielveedeebee

Michielveedeebee

Feb 25, 2010
3,854
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Clemson Cycling said:
This is my best guess with the guys in bold making it

Tom Danielson
Julian Dean
Tyler Farrar
Heinrich Haussler
Ryder Hesjedal
Thor Hushovd
Daniel Martin
David Millar
Christian Vande Velde
Johan Vansummeren
David Zabriskie
Click to expand...

haussler won't be riding
 
Cimber

Cimber

Jan 3, 2011
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just some guy said:
If we look at the Giro saxo as a unit were quite weak really.
Click to expand...

For the TTT they a probably somewhat weaker than normal. For the mountains they are in a good spot though. Porte, Chris Sørensen, Navarro and Jesus Hernandez. That should be more than enough. There arent as strong as Leopard but I certainly wouldnt call them week.

PS: I am so looking forward to seeing Rabobank. They have great riders for the GC, esp Gesink, and also alot of potential stagewinners. And then dont need a team to control the race. Leopard and Saxo will take care of that.
 
NickBVK

NickBVK

Aug 30, 2009
271
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Haussler said he doesn't want to ride and won't be riding. Apparently Bobridge was removed from the Giro at the 11th hour in order to save himself for July but I can't see him riding the Tour
 
K

karlboss

Mar 13, 2009
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HTC didn't pump the last TTT at the tour because of the work they did the day before, Garmin now has no wiggins (remember only 5 finished), Radioshack, have no Lance or Contador.

I'd say this years saxo is stronger than last years Astana, unless I'm underestimating the work vino did. but I figure CSorenson will more than make up for that.

Saxo stronger this year than last...if Frank stays upright, he may have landed killer blows last year.

VdB...You need a few mountain domestiques if you are expecting to control the mountain stages, anyone expect that of OPL? You don't need any to chase a dangerous break, other teams will do it for you. Same same when you are mid pack climbing, there is always a horner etc to sit on. It didn't hold evans back aiming top 10 at the tour. However if VdB wants a crack at the top step he'd need someone (as Evans did) probably another GT contender to "work over" other favourites.
 
auscyclefan94

auscyclefan94

Jun 16, 2009
19,654
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Vaughers tour squad would have to be

Danielson
Dean
Farrar
Hesjedal
Hushovd
Le mevel
Martin
Millar
Van summeren
Vandevelde
Zabriskie

9 out of those 11
 
LukeSchmid

LukeSchmid

Sep 27, 2009
1,008
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LukeSchmid

LukeSchmid

Sep 27, 2009
1,008
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auscyclefan94 said:
Vaughers tour squad would have to be

Danielson
Dean
Farrar
Hesjedal
Hushovd
Le mevel
Martin
Millar
Van summeren
Vandevelde
Zabriskie

9 out of those 11
Click to expand...

Le Mevel to back up after the Giro. I would be surprised, but Millar will be I guess.
 
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