andy1234 said:
Some of the points raised ad nauseum have been answered with facts.
Many times, however, they have been answered with opinion.
Just because many people have raised the same opinion, many times, does not make it fact.
I stated an opinion regarding the perception of certain events taking place with LeMond and his association with a doping doctor. If you don't like that opinion, hard luck, but it doesn't change the fact that if those events had taken place today, eyebrows would not only raise, they would make it into orbit.
Just because the contents of a syringe in the 80s didn't change donkeys into Racehorses, it doesn't make the doping discussion any less valid. This seems to be something that YOU seem to have problems coming to grips with.
If you or others don't want to repeat a discussion that has already happened, stay out of it. If you believe the subject does not deserve further discussion, then stay out of it. If reading people's opinions about events that have been discussed ad nauseum is a problem, I suggest the Sky thread would also be a good place to vent your frustration.
Your whole sour-puss boils down to the fact that Greg LeMond get's a pass when it comes to doping whilst SKY are getting crucified.
So lets get into the details then.
Dodgy doctors.
Yvan Van Mol started working with ADR during 1989 so how did anyone know he was a dodgy doctor at that time when he had no previous experience in pro cycling. LeMond has stated that he had only one encounter with Van Mol at the Giro which seem's realistic. That season LeMond started his racing in the Americas, then spent Feb/Mar in Europe where he started of well but his form deteriorated badly before he returned to the US, spending almost two months back home before returning to Europe for the Giro at which he encountered Van Mol.
Van Mol's reputation developed based on what he did with riders after ADR , in particular at GB-MG/Mapei teams and only became public knowledge much later. He is not regarded as an important part of LeMond's success. If Van Mol was the key to LeMond's sudden success, the logical question would be why did LeMond not continue to work with him??? Surely he would have insisted on him moving to Z like he did with Johan Lammerts.
Or are you suggesting that LeMond was somehow working with Van Mol in secret during 1990. It was widely known that Adrie Van Diemen coached LeMond but not a mention of Van Mol and as I said, it was not like Van Mol had a reputation at the time the way a certain G.Leinders had before he joined SKY. There was no need to hide a link with Van Mol in 89.
Even though SKY promoted a Zero Tolerance Policy, they still hired Leinders even though they had a number of former Rabobank riders on their team(Flecha, Hayman etc) who probably knew the score. After struggling on the stage race front for 18 months, it just so happens that around the same time of Leinders hiring, a few SKY riders suddenly transform into amazing riders having previously been average riders and have remained at that level since and SKY only ditched Leinders when they bowed to public pressure when his backstory hit the newspapers.
Now it could be argued that LeMond underwent a transformation in 89 but then we already knew LeMond had the talent to compete at the top level beforehand and was suffering health problems whilst we never witnessed such talent from the SKY boys even though they claimed health problems also. It is much more easy to believe a top rider returning to the top level following years of ill-heath than to see 2-3 guys performing at levels they had never previously been near.
A recap:
LeMond
Receiving an injection from a (at the time)little known team doctor who later became known as a doping doctor.
20+ years without any known connection to doping.
SKY
Despite promoting a ZTP, employing a doctor with a history in the sport that coincided with the EPO/Blood doping era and from a team that had riders implicated in doping scandals.
SKY riders suddenly transforming from being average riders to top tier riders in a manner not seen since the good ol EPO days.
SKY then sacking team doctor because of past associations with doping.
I think it seem's pretty logical why SKY might arouse more suspicion than Greg LeMond on the doping front.