LeMond I

[86TDFWinner]

Another LeMond fan here. The guy is one of my heroes. Awesome to hear him fight back at the UCI without blinking.

Yep, Greg's the man, and was(and still is) one of my heros when I was younger).

 

[manafana]

echo thoughts on Lemond legend and great guy interesting guy to talk to too.

EPO wasnt available till early 90s, hence many believing indurain won at least one tour clean ;.

 

[86TDFWinner]

echo thoughts on Lemond legend and great guy interesting guy to talk to too.

EPO wasnt available till early 90s, hence many believing indurain won at least one tour clean ;.

IMO, 1 is being kind. Shame too, enjoyed watching him race.

 

[Maillot Vert]

Long live the King Lemond. Probably the greatest natural talent in the history of professional cycling. Who will ever forget the 1989 Tour De France. IMO one of the best Tours ever.

 

[ToreBear]

Nuff said......

http://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Planckaert,-E-admission/

Planckaert admitted to using EPO in 1990 and claimed that it was a fantastic product if taken under proper medical supervision.

So it was defintly available in 1990. What about 1989-1988-1987? Perhaps, perhaps not, I'm still looking.

 

[Maillot Vert]

Starr wrote:

Please recall that during the tail end of his career and particularly for his epic world championship victory, EPO was commonly available but undetectable by the then state-of-the-art testing.

Starr is a complete idiot in this statement. That worlds was in 1989. EPO was not "widely available" then. It wasn't even approved by the FDA until 1993:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/4037b2_04_fda-aranesp-procrit.htm

EPO was in fact approved by the FDA on June 1, 1989.

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/amgen-inc-history/

On June 1, 1989, the FDA approved Amgen's EPO for treatment of anemia in kidney dialysis patients. The next day Amgen shipped its first batch of the drug to UCLA Medical Center.

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/4037b2_04_fda-aranesp-procrit.htm

EPOGEN/PROCRIT was licensed in June 1989, with the following indication: “treatment of anemia associated with chronic renal failure, including patients on dialysis (end stage renal disease) and patients not on dialysis.”

 

[ultimobici]

http://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Planckaert,-E-admission/



So it was defintly available in 1990. What about 1989-1988-1987? Perhaps, perhaps not, I'm still looking.

No. Your source's translation is off. The 1990 in the article refers to the previous statement.

Didier Garcia: «Je me suis dopé, comme les autres. A la cortisone, aux amphétamines ou encore avec des pilules dérivées de la nitroglycérine, les billes de sprint qu'on avale à proximité de l'arrivée. On n'échappe pas au dopage, chez les pros.» (24/11/89) Johan Van der Velde: «Chaque jour, un nouveau critérium. C'est détestable mais il faut gagner de l'argent. Alors pour tenir le coup, on prend des amphétamines tous les deux ou trois jours. Durant le Tour, c'est tous les jours la même chose: une injection le matin et des pilules le soir.» (10/1990) Francesco Moser: «J'ai estimé à certains moments de ma carrière que je pouvais avoir recours à des produits qui, aujourd'hui seulement, sont reconnus comme des dopants. Je l'ai fait à titre expérimental et jamais pour une compétition.» (1990) Eddy Planckaert: «L'EPO est un produit fantastique. Si vous en prenez, et que vos adversaires n'en prennent pas, vos performances sont 12 à 15% supérieures. J'en ai utilisé et avec succès ["] Le problème maintenant est que le plus petit coureur en utilise.» (20/01/98) Erwan Manthéour: «Ils veulent rendre service aux coureurs et protéger leur santé? Qu'ils raccourcissent les courses! Qu'ils ne nous demandent pas de rouler à fond dès que les caméras se branchent en direct, qu'ils s'intéressent plus aux coureurs et moins à l'argent que ces derniers peuvent leur rapporter.» (22/01/98)

1990 is the date of Moser's quote.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

To speculate this much is silly and pointless.

Pretty much every soigneur had their own 'malette' and in Europe the homeopathic scene was very much alive at the time. For digestion, energy, breathing, rest, recovery .....

Some herbs and supplements contained among other things, minute amounts of ephedrine, norepiniphrene, guarana, tribulus, etc. which are in many weight loss products today. In some cases their active ingredients are now on the WADA list.

It would not have been unusual, or illegal at the time for riders to be given these supplements. Hinault has often shared his experiences with them.

So the point being made is that there were riders of that era that doped, and there were riders who did not. But almost all riders sought and found natural supplements to help out. That's all.

 

[ultimobici]

Also if Planckaert was on EPO in 1990, how come he only beat a reputedly clean as a whistle Bauer by barely a cm in Roubaix?

 

[Cloxxki]

http://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Planckaert,-E-admission/



So it was defintly available in 1990. What about 1989-1988-1987? Perhaps, perhaps not, I'm still looking.

Friend of mine was a pharmacy student from the mid-80's. Later star cyclist, always clean, and never making it in the big league despite wicked talent. Some national championships and master titles though.
He studied EPO before it had even made it to most medical journals. Had a co-student combine his research and impress the uni with a great thesis on how EPO would pretty much kill sport and sportsmanship in the decades to come. He went on to lead the creatine revolution in Europe. Long story short : my man knows his stuff.
He tells me regards the 1988 (early in year too) Calgary speed skating performances irrelevant. It was available to those who cared. Especially those in close contact with sports docs at the time. Especially when suffering from injuries they'd want to recover from. Train hard. Like, as hard as the East Germans had done for the many past years. Guess what, surprise performances from heavily injured, just-in-time speed skater. Never to be heard of again afterwards. And she was so cute and my favorite sportswoman at the time. Yet, my heart is now full of doubt. But I do know that in 1988, you could get EPO if you cared for it, had your eyes out.

 

[Microchip]

I personally will always think of LeMond as a class act and totally clean racer. All those years ago he knew then what we all know now, about doping among the peloton, Armstrong, etc.

+1 (10 chars)

 

[compete_clean]

Also if Planckaert was on EPO in 1990, how come he only beat a reputedly clean as a whistle Bauer by barely a cm in Roubaix?

FYI - Steve Bauer was a freak of nature, amongst a group of freak of natures.

 

[ToreBear]

No. Your source's translation is off. The 1990 in the article refers to the previous statement.

1990 is the date of Moser's quote.

Thanks! My french is nonexistent, so i figured i'd trust dopology. Using googletranslate now sugests your interpretation is the right one.

So Planckaerts first use of EPO is still a mystery.

 

[ToreBear]

Also if Planckaert was on EPO in 1990, how come he only beat a reputedly clean as a whistle Bauer by barely a cm in Roubaix?

Sure, but that could also mean Planckaert was in real bad shape and/or used a very low dose of EPO, and/or Bauer was in the form of his life that day.

Thats the problem with using performance compared to others to evaluate doping. There are so many different variables.

It would be much better for all involved if those who used blood vector doping(epo, bb+++) came out and cleared up when they started using it.

 

[ToreBear]

Friend of mine was a pharmacy student from the mid-80's. Later star cyclist, always clean, and never making it in the big league despite wicked talent. Some national championships and master titles though.
He studied EPO before it had even made it to most medical journals. Had a co-student combine his research and impress the uni with a great thesis on how EPO would pretty much kill sport and sportsmanship in the decades to come. He went on to lead the creatine revolution in Europe. Long story short : my man knows his stuff.
He tells me regards the 1988 (early in year too) Calgary speed skating performances irrelevant. It was available to those who cared. Especially those in close contact with sports docs at the time. Especially when suffering from injuries they'd want to recover from. Train hard. Like, as hard as the East Germans had done for the many past years. Guess what, surprise performances from heavily injured, just-in-time speed skater. Never to be heard of again afterwards. And she was so cute and my favorite sportswoman at the time. Yet, my heart is now full of doubt. But I do know that in 1988, you could get EPO if you cared for it, had your eyes out.

Yep I think epo was well studied before it became widely used in all countries. Your friend was certainly right about EPOs future influence.

As for 1988, I have some theories. Remember that epo was IIRC first put on the ioc list in 1990 and the UCI list in 1991. So a doctor prescribing it to an athlete in 1988 might not see it as such a big no no, as one prescribing it in 1990 and beyond.

That is an ethical issue needing to be overcome by the individual doctor. Another ethical issue needing to be overcome is the Hippocratic oath. Don't cause harm to a patient.

For example, my impression of Conconi's group was that they were very careful in the do no harm department. They doped their athletes to the gills, put made sure that they did not cross the do no harm barrier(at least convinced themselves).

I read an article in Norwegian, where it's mentioned in passing that in the late 80s there was a doping lab in Eindhoven that was all the time ahead of the testers. Such a lab would presumably gather up shady doctors with very little ethics. They would in my opinion be more focused on producing good PEDs that were un detectable, and less with the science of improving performance like Conconis group.

This could IMHO explain some of the rumored early deaths of dutch cyclists.

I tried to search for any mention of this lab, but came out with tons of mentions of the Phillips electronics lab.

Have you heard of any such laboratory in the late 80s early 90s?

My thinking is that there are a lot of factors needed for early adoption of such a drug. And there are not that many areas were the necessary factors come together to form what I would call a doping cluster.

Could there have been such a cluster centered in/around Eindhoven at the time?

 

[Benotti69]

Greg LeMond is in Dublin.

He was on Irish radio, newstalk sports show.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/237288/

Three time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond was in studio with Ger Gilroy at 3pm this Saturday.


For anyone is Dublin next wednesday

ADHD Awareness Week, 7th - 13th October

EVENTS

Sunday 7th October,
Charity Cycle with Greg LeMond three times Tour de France winner, Trim, Co. Meath
12.30pm for 10k and 1.00pm for 40k

Wednesday 10th October, 7.30pm – 9.30pm
Information Evening for Adults with ADHD
Pillar Room, The Rotunda Hospital, Parnell Street, Dublin 1 (map below)
Speakers:
Greg LeMond, three times Tour de France winner
Dr Declan Quinn, child and adolescent psychiatrist
Entry is free of charge

 

[esafosfina]

Greg LeMond is in Dublin.

He was on Irish radio, newstalk sports show.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/237288/

Three time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond was in studio with Ger Gilroy at 3pm this Saturday.


For anyone is Dublin next wednesday

Clutching at straws but would anyone know if Dr Declan Quinn is related to Sean Kelly's manager Frank Quinn?

 

[esafosfina]

So thats where you got the great "surges" of power from, that you were renowned for during your distinguished career!!

Which included being an immensely impressive World Champion. Bravo !!

Thank you MV...

 

[esafosfina]

I must apologize if I don't get around to answering questions/posts as speedily as some; I really don't get on this forum as often as I should...

 

[thirteen]

I must apologize if I don't get around to answering questions/posts as speedily as some; I really don't get on this forum as often as I should...

it's just really cool that you are here at all -- merci!

 

[thirteen]

radio interview with LeMond with Ger Gilroy on Newstalk radio.

 

[Race Radio]

radio interview with LeMond and Shane Stokes from Velonation.

Excellent interview

"He tries to destroy people"

"Anyone who stood up in the last 10 Years was destroyed"

Crazy that Armstrong was the first guy to call up Strock and berate him

 

[Benotti69]

Clutching at straws but would anyone know if Dr Declan Quinn is related to Sean Kelly's manager Frank Quinn?

there are one or two Quinns in Ireland

 

[Basecase]

It wasn't Stokes that interviewed him - someone from Newstalk radio

 

[thirteen]

It wasn't Stokes that interviewed him - someone from Newstalk radio

thank you for the clarification. (i haven't gotten to listen to it but wanted to pass it on.) i will correct my post.