LeMond I

[OnTheButton]

I am no Lance homer by any means, but has he EVER tested postitive? How much do you think the French (and all of Europe for that matter) would LOVE for him to be shown a fraud....and still nothing. I bet his arms look like a herion addict's arm the guy is tested so much. So Greg and all the others should produce concrete evidence or go away.

When you point the finger somewhere else, there are three pointing back at you. I prefer to think we are witnessing fabulous efforts from the likes of LA and AC. As someone that was a cancer survivor why and the heck would he pollute his body with anything?

Again, the premise made by anyone accusing them of doping is that their masking agent/cycle process is better than anyone elses. I find it hard to believe that for the better part of 10 years, they have always been able to beat the system....the odds of that being true can't be very high. Thats all I am saying.

 

[OnTheButton]

Yep - I think it is time to get rid of that bike and get as far away form any connection with this guy as possible

Perhaps you have a line on a nice Ridley to haul my fat a** around!

 

[Skeptical57]

Again, what alleged drug use are you talking about? Are you referring to Oldman's post that a former teammate confessed to using EPO?

Sorry, I worded that poorly.

Perhaps a better question to ask is, "Greg, lots of people around you used drugs including Hinault, Fignon and others. Have you ever used drugs?"

I do not recollect a question such as that being asked.

Even if he denies it how do we know is telling the truth. The absence of a positive test has never been sufficient for LeMond... why should his denial be held in any greater esteem.

And to the point further up the list about LeMonds 'profit by accusation?' Hell yes he profits bc he is playing the 'anything to keep me in the news' card. Even bad press is press. Without his accusations he has nothing to offer.

Sorry, I liked LeMond and what he did for American cycling... But he impresses me with nothing and should reconsider is media position

 

[Anonymous]

Greg is not a poor speaker as such, he has a disorder that means that what he thinks and says rarely line up together, it can be simply modified with some natural ingredients to produce very eloquent, thought provoking arguments.
I have seen and heard a number of his interviews and can only say he does tell a compelling story, some what similar to Paul "I couldn't give a ****" Kimmage, very brave men who don't even understand themselves, the others (us) not understanding them is irrelevant to their mission/issue as they are compelled by what they know to be true. They are not in anything solely for the money or power. I often see clumsy ignorant attempts to undermine both of them but have never felt the need or laziness to fall for any of them. There are a number of great interviews with Greg on Competitor radio and other sources, listen and you may learn. I loved him a long time before the ninestone cowboy turned up and gave Americans a largely unneeded help in the blow your own trumpet competition. What we don't have is a reasonable or sensible reason as to why a tour no hoper could win 7 in a row and be known as the Tour no doper.

There are a fair number of Lance alots pushing his name and star status and you wonder who pays their wages. He always tries to manipulate the media, because his cause is neither real or true so the need to spin is all imoportant to his agenda , false prophets spring to mind although his coffers are extremely bulgous at the moment, I said moment as when real Emperor gets his outfit back it will then, hopefully, be all over bar the grouting as he exits to the longest night on the tiles ever, apparently snakes love cold surfaces.

 

[The Barb]

I am no Lance homer by any means, but has he EVER tested postitive? How much do you think the French (and all of Europe for that matter) would LOVE for him to be shown a fraud....and still nothing.

Yes, he has tested positive - both from the 1999 Tour. Firstly to corticoids, for which he was (bewilderingly) given a retrospective medical exemption and some years later scientists concluded from his tests that he had been on EPO, which had not been testable at the time. This was reported in L'Equipe, in which they also invited Armstrong to sue them for defamation - which he did not do (one might conclude because a total defence to defamation is truth).

But, in any case, do you need a positive test to conclude drug use? You don't need dna evidence to convict of murder if you have eye witnesses and confessions - and there are plenty of people who have claimed to witness his drug use and heard him confess to such.

 

[the vagabond]

I say we just show LeMond the biological passports before the TdeF next year and have him declare who the winner is.

Here's a guy who turned 40 looking late-40s and 30 pounds overweight with no muscle tone, a guy who post-retirement was clueless about how to change a flat on a clincher mountain bike tire, a guy who has no real friends among the cycling community except for other drug accusers like Le Monde (the newspaper), a guy who ego-sickeningly named all his bike frames after his world championship venues, etc.

How did LeMond going from feeling like s*** to winning the WC RR in 1989, a la Pantani? Huh, huh, explain that one LeMond. Ok, sorry we're stripping you -you're guilty until proven innocent and so it's up to you to explain and you haven't done it.

LeMond smart? That's a good one. Completely uneducated, and a creep.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I say we just show LeMond the biological passports before the TdeF next year and have him declare who the winner is.

Here's a guy who turned 40 looking late-40s and 30 pounds overweight with no muscle tone, a guy who post-retirement was clueless about how to change a flat on a clincher mountain bike tire, a guy who has no real friends among the cycling community except for other drug accusers like Le Monde (the newspaper), a guy who ego-sickeningly named all his bike frames after his world championship venues, etc.

How did LeMond going from feeling like s*** to winning the WC RR in 1989, a la Pantani? Huh, huh, explain that one LeMond. Ok, sorry we're stripping you -you're guilty until proven innocent and so it's up to you to explain and you haven't done it.

LeMond smart? That's a good one. Completely uneducated, and a creep.

Agreed that Lemond has no real friends in the Pro Cycling community - why do you think that is?
And could you provide a link or where the comment of him saying he "was feeling like s**t" before the Worlds in 89 as I don't remember it.

 

[usedtobefast]

1989 worlds

i believe he said he was feeling bad during the race, if memory serves.
and i think you can find a post race interview somewhere these days.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Lemond is bitter because he feels he was robbed of his best racing years because of his gunshot wounds.

Personally, I thought it was his own fault. What kind of idiot goes hunting anyway?

Beyond that, he seems to basically be saying that all riders today are doping.

Yet people who raced long before him have said all riders were doping as long as they could remember. Are we really supposed to believe that Lemond did not dope as well?

This whole anti doping witch hunt will end up destroying cycling.

 

[Golddigger]

How quickly they forget

Have you seen some of his old interviews where he ... claimed that the reason he lost the 91 TDF was magically 70 or was it 75% of the peleton started doping that had not doped the year before

And how long was BigMig's suspension for steroids? 91 was his first year back, after presumably out training on his own rather than having race fitness.

Gregg has lots of friends, not groupies like the LA worshipers.

Got to love the announcement from Radio Hack that LA will do tris and marathons next year as well as bike race. Sort of sounds like an extend publicity campaign before he kicks off his senate bid.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i believe he said he was feeling bad during the race, if memory serves.
and i think you can find a post race interview somewhere these days.

The original poster said "before" the Worlds, I was asking as to when, ie the week before, the day before.....
I don't have my winning magazines with me - and I would appreciate if you could enlighten me as to where I might find an interview since it appears to be so easy.

 

[Green Hornet]

There was a time when I was a LeMond defender. However, he has gone so far around the bend he has lost all credibility with everyone except his die-hard fans and the wacked out anti-doping zealots.

He is an embarrassment to himself, American cycling and cycling in general. He should just stop all of this stupidity for the sanity of us all.

Truly a sad story ---

 

[Escarabajo]

Lemond is bitter because he feels he was robbed of his best racing years because of his gunshot wounds.

Personally, I thought it was his own fault. What kind of idiot goes hunting anyway?

Beyond that, he seems to basically be saying that all riders today are doping.

Yet people who raced long before him have said all riders were doping as long as they could remember. Are we really supposed to believe that Lemond did not dope as well?

This whole anti doping witch hunt will end up destroying cycling.

Read in the Clinic Forum please: "Reasons for Lemonds Decline". You will like it.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Read in the Clinic Forum please: "Reasons for Lemonds Decline". You will like it.

I will check it out!

 

[patrick767]

Again with the accusations, Lemond? Put up or shut up.

Lemond doesn't have evidence, but he's willing to publish a story where he insinuates that Contador isn't clean. That's not fair to Contador and it makes Lemond look like a fool. He's an embarrassment.

 

[patrick767]

Yes, he has tested positive - both from the 1999 Tour. Firstly to corticoids, for which he was (bewilderingly) given a retrospective medical exemption and some years later scientists concluded from his tests that he had been on EPO, which had not been testable at the time. This was reported in L'Equipe, in which they also invited Armstrong to sue them for defamation - which he did not do (one might conclude because a total defence to defamation is truth).

As you may already know, the EPO accusations and counter-arguments from Armstrong's side were presented in testimony under binding arbitration when SCA Promotions tried to avoid paying Armstrong a $5 million bonus. Armstrong didn't shy away from filing that lawsuit for fear that he would be "exposed", so your suggestion that he didn't sue L'Equipe for that reason is ridiculous. SCA ended up paying out $7.5 million though no finding was issued as to the validity of the doping accusations.

To call that disputed evidence proof positive that Armstrong was a doper is patently unfair to the cyclist. But having followed this forum for awhile before I registered, I know that's never going to change anyone's mind. Apparently one either thinks LA is a doper and quite possibly a terrible person besides, or one is a hopeless fanboy.

 

[runninboy]

Is it just me or can this guy not go away quick enough?.

Guess what? It is just you

Seriously i just noticed 3 new threads complaining about Lemond.
One was a first time poster, another was the authors second post
and you with a whopping 6.

While i am pretty new here myself i find it curious that some known
Lemond haters have been curiously absent but alot of brand new Haters
have taken their place

It would be nice if a moderator combined all the Lemond threads where they belong.

 

[runninboy]

It was Tour duPont or something similar.

Friends in Napa saw him training in that area with Otto Jacombe.
Gossip sells, .

OK if it was tour dupont that was after the shooting, You know he almost died right ? Kind of like saying Armstrong was really bad when he had that halo on his head and then magically got better. Its called recovery.
Otto Jacombe? Why would he ride with his soigneur?

You are pretty good with the gossip yourself

 

[richwagmn]

Man, I feel badly for Lemond. What does he have to gain with his antics? I really wonder if he doesn't have mental issues at times. I've listened to him speak and he can't seem to hold a thought for more than a few seconds.

 

[runninboy]

This whole anti doping witch hunt will end up destroying cycling.

It is only a witch hunt if no one is doping but it is being proven over & over through tests and confessions that there is quite a bit of doping

 

[colwildcat]

I have to admit, I can't stand the guy. It reeks of hypocrisy that everyone else who wins dopes, but he rode the fastest tour stage in history, and we're supposed to take his word for it.

Having said that, I'm driving down Speer Ave in Denver about a year ago, and I'm sitting at a light when a guy in a yellow jersey pulls up next to me on a nice Lemond bike. I look over, and it's freaking Greg Lemond. Again, I'm no fan, but when a TDF champion is standing next to you on a training ride, it's pretty cool.

 

[rhubroma]

The people who complain bitterly about Lemond's so called antics, know nothing, absolutely nothing, about the sport. They are deluded into thinking the sport doesn't have a major doping problem, that the omertà code of silence doesn't exist, that above all an ex-so-so classics rider with cancer could comeback on sheer will power and "hard work" to win the Tour 7 times in a row in an age with rampant EPO use and blood doping clean. They don't see a problem with the same man's comportment with Simeoni for breaking that code of silence and divulging details about Dr. Michele Ferrari and doping (the former's doctor at the time), and thus would never doubt neither his integrity nor sincerity.

In fact to them Lemond is a whining cry-baby who is simply jealous, forgeting the fact that Armstrong, at the beginning of all this, when Greg simply brought into question (for a completely valid reason) the former's relationship with Ferrari, called Greg and reamed him out over the phone in just one of many instances of his offensive bullying. So it was Lance, not Greg, who started this war. So I feel sorry for Greg too, but not for the reasons of those who know nothing about the sport, rather that he is a David fighting a Goliath but without divine support.

 

[colwildcat]

The people who complain bitterly about Lemond's so called antics, know nothing, absolutely nothing, about the sport. They are deluded into thinking the sport doesn't have a major doping problem, that the omertà code of silence doesn't exist, that above all an ex-so-so classics rider with cancer could comeback on sheer will power and "hard work" to win the Tour 7 times in a row in an age with rampant EPO use and blood doping clean. They don't see a problem with the same man's comportment with Simeoni for breaking that code of silence and divulging details about Dr. Michele Ferrari and doping (the former's doctor at the time), and thus would never doubt neither his integrity nor sincerity.

In fact to them Lemond is a whining cry-baby who is simply jealous, forgeting the fact that Armstrong, at the beginning of all this, when Greg simply brought into question (for a completely valid reason) the former's relationship with Ferrari, called Greg and reamed him out over the phone in just one of many instances of his offensive bullying. So it was Lance, not Greg, who started this war. So I feel sorry for Greg too, but not for the reasons of those who know nothing about the sport, rather that he is a David fighting a Goliath but without divine support.

Wrong. I'm not deluded, or jealous, and I know plenty about the sport. Yes, I believe that there has been a major doping problem in the sport, including Lemond.

The reason I don't like the guy is that he basically comes out and says that he was the last guy to win clean. We have to take his word for that, although he's not willing to take anyone else's. As far as I am concerned, there is as much suspicion about him doping as there is anyone since.

 

[Epicycle]

Wrong. I'm not deluded, or jealous, and I know plenty about the sport. Yes, I believe that there has been a major doping problem in the sport, including Lemond.

The reason I don't like the guy is that he basically comes out and says that he was the last guy to win clean. We have to take his word for that, although he's not willing to take anyone else's. As far as I am concerned, there is as much suspicion about him doping as there is anyone since.

The difference is that there is evidence for so many other winners.

After Lemond -
Indurain - testimony in Festina trial about systematic doping at Banesto
Riis - admitted
Ullrich - positive match with Fuentes blood bag. Systematic doping at Telekom.
Pantani - kicked out of the Giro for high hematocrit.
Armstrong - 6 EPO positives
Contador - "AC" in Puerto files.

Before or at the time of Lemond -
Fignon -tested positive twice
Perico - tested positive
Roche - court inquiry proved he doped
Hinault - skipped a doping control.
Zoetemelk - three positive tests
Thevenet - admitted
Merckx - tested positive
Ocana - tested positive and admitted.

So you have 4 winners in 40 years who haven't been directly involved in something. Sastre, Pereiro, Van Impe and Lemond. Did any of them dope? Almost definitely.

The only associations of Lemond and doping are...his relationship with Yvan Van Mol. Sinkewitz said Van Mol was involved in doping at Quick Step and Van Mol has been around a long time. Lemond has never denied he has been close to Van Mol. He has even said that Van Mol told him at the end of his career that if Lemond wanted to stay competitive he must go to Ferrari. Lemond says he chose to retire instead. There was also his time at PDM. Lemond said the team doctor talked about rebalancing hormone levels but Lemond said he never got to find out what that meant because he didn't ride much that year. Theunisse of PDM tested postive for testosterone that year at the TDF.

 

[Indurain]

Lemond is a hero for the way he pioneered the way for other American's into the sport, the way he helped cyclist's get more pay and brought the sport into the new world. His also a hero for his endeavour's for a cleaner sport. We all have flaws in our character and even hidden secrets, but who among you can say they have put themselves out on a limb like Lemond knowing that it is only going to hurt you. His a champion in my eyes, more because he sticks up for what he believes despite the consequences.